PSI Gatsby question

[PMisiaszek]

Recently, I've turned a series of PSI Gatsby pens, their version of the Sierra. I am finding that when the pen is assembled, the tip of the refill does not fully retract into the pen. The transmission advances and retracts the way is should, but the refill tip is visible almost flush with the pen tip assemby and when fully retracted, I can write with the pen. The only variable in the design of the kit is the length of the tube, and I am very careful not to cut down the brass tube in the trimming process. Have others making this pen had the same problem? Is there a fix?

 

[Mark]

Are you using an upgraded ink for the refills or the ones that come with the hardware?

Not all refills are created equal. IMHO.

 

[ldb2000]

Which version of the Gatsby are you using , the standard body twist or version 2 the finial twist ? The standard body twist version the tube length don't make a difference because the refill is in a separate unit that just screws together but the tube length on the finial twist version is very critical . The tube length on the version 2 MUST be 2 1/4" . I have used allot of Sierra tubes lately with my shell blanks and have seen a variation of as much as an 1/8" in the stock tube lengths . This would be more then enough to cause the problems you are having .
A slightly longer refill would cause the same problem with all the Sierra style pens .

 

[PMisiaszek]

I am using the V2 kit. The twist mech screws into the clip assy after the refill is dropped into the tip assy. I will start measuring the tubes. As for an upgraded refill, please tell me more. If I could find one 1/32" shorter, that would solve my problem. But, it looks like a refill specific to the pen kit, ie, it has a drive connection at the top.

Pete

 

[Smitty37]

Tube length

I am using the V2 kit. The twist mech screws into the clip assy after the refill is dropped into the tip assy. I will start measuring the tubes. As for an upgraded refill, please tell me more. If I could find one 1/32" shorter, that would solve my problem. But, it looks like a refill specific to the pen kit, ie, it has a drive connection at the top.

Pete

I have made the same pen from a different seller and so far all of mine the tip fully retracts but just barely, not much forgiveness built in. As stated in the other reply the tube length seems to be very critical and it is easy to see why. The refill could also cause the problem if it's a bit too long. They do not use a kit specific refill it is a standard parker style the drive connection is for click mechanisms and you can probably file a little of that off to correct the problem..

 

[ldb2000]

The refill is a standard Parker style refill , they all have the teeth on top . You can take a file or sandpaper and remove the 1/32" from the plastic top of the refill but you will have to do the same to any refills you put in those pens . I have found the Gel refills have a little more variation in length (usually a little shorter) but if you are going to sell or give these pens away , the people who get them will have the same problem when they go to get refills . Your best bet is to disassemble and put new barrels of the correct length . Save these barrels for the regular Sierra style pens where barrel length don't matter . Always remember to measure the tube length for these pens before you assemble them .

 

[johncrane]

I can only think of two things to do, start again, or ad a spacer,

 

[maxwell_smart007]

My two thoughts are that you may have trimmed the barrel too much when you faced the blank - but you said you didn't, so that precludes that...

So, why not try a different transmission and see if that helps - I've given up on that style of pen because of transmission issues...could be that this is a case of a transmission 'seeming' to work, but not entirely retracting....

 

[ldb2000]

I've done a number of these kits (I like finial operated pens) and have had no transmission problems but I have seen a number of kits with tubes that were either too long or too short , mostly too short .
Also I have seen several of these pens that have weak springs , so weak infact that the refill wouldn't fully retract without help . A spring from a cigar kit takes care of the problem .

 

[PMisiaszek]

The easiest (and best) solution would be to upgrade to a gel refill that is a hair shorter. It looks like the refill that comes with the Garsby is 3 7/8" I'd be happy with anything shorter. If you have a gel refill in your kit, would you measure it? FWIW, if the tube is supposed to be 2 1/4", all of my remaining kits have short tubes.

 

[soligen]

Measure the refill to be ssure an upgrade will solve the problem.

For the future, realize that not only the tubes, but the components can also vary in dimension too. I measure everything very carfully and calculate the proper length I want instead of trusting the specs. After I glue in the tube, I trim the wood/plastic to length, and if it ends up a tad longer then the tube - so be it. Having a tube just shy of the end hasn't caused me a problem yet.

With all this said. the biggest non-tube variance is the refil. The easy flow 9000 seem consistent in length, and match genuine parker refils. I've had kit refils as much as 1/32 too long. Get a good standard size refil to size your parts. Then even if you decide not to upgrade, you can sand down a too long refill to standard size and be confident the buyer can get a replacement.

The genuine parker refil I have is 4.863 in length. The easyflow 9000's I've measured have been within .002 of this. So, I now upgrade to an Easyflow and size the pen to fit it.

 

[louie68]

I just finish making a Monet pen like a Gatsby v2 kit heres my problem the opposite my refill won't come all the way out 9/64 is as far as it will come out.
barrel size is 2 10/32

 

[Smitty37]

Off an inch???

Measure the refill to be ssure an upgrade will solve the problem.

For the future, realize that not only the tubes, but the components can also vary in dimension too. I measure everything very carfully and calculate the proper length I want instead of trusting the specs. After I glue in the tube, I trim the wood/plastic to length, and if it ends up a tad longer then the tube - so be it. Having a tube just shy of the end hasn't caused me a problem yet.

With all this said. the biggest non-tube variance is the refil. The easy flow 9000 seem consistent in length, and match genuine parker refils. I've had kit refils as much as 1/32 too long. Get a good standard size refil to size your parts. Then even if you decide not to upgrade, you can sand down a too long refill to standard size and be confident the buyer can get a replacement.

The genuine parker refil I have is 4.863 in length. The easyflow 9000's I've measured have been within .002 of this. So, I now upgrade to an Easyflow and size the pen to fit it.

Aren't you about an inch long on that....I just measured a bunch of parker style refills at 3.83 - 3.86. There could be some variation but not that much. That being said I think you have the best solution to the problem...leave the barrel a shade long so it is the right length. Personally I'd leave the excess on the clip end and press carefully that you don't mash the barrell material.

 

[Smitty37]

measured....

Which version of the Gatsby are you using , the standard body twist or version 2 the finial twist ? The standard body twist version the tube length don't make a difference because the refill is in a separate unit that just screws together but the tube length on the finial twist version is very critical . The tube length on the version 2 MUST be 2 1/4" . I have used allot of Sierra tubes lately with my shell blanks and have seen a variation of as much as an 1/8" in the stock tube lengths . This would be more then enough to cause the problems you are having .
A slightly longer refill would cause the same problem with all the Sierra style pens .

I just measured a bunch of non-PSI Gatsby's and the tube nominal length seems to be 2.20 variation seems to be < .001. The refill nominal length in the supplied refill is 3.84 -- variation seems to be about 002. The supplier intructions say 2 1/4 as you state so it seems they are providing tubes about a saw blade width short (assuming they cut tubes with a very thin blade).

 

[nava1uni]

I would check for glue or something in the upper mechanism that might not be allowing the refill to seat all the way.

 

[louie68]

no glue in barrel i thought maybe the spring was causeing the problem so i strecth the spring but did'nt help im at a loss right now any other idea's?

 

[louie68]

smitty my measurement is the barrel size not the refill size why do you think my refill is to short?

 

[Smitty37]

Response was to original post

smitty my measurement is the barrel size not the refill size why do you think my refill is to short?

I don't. Just a little misunderstanding. I was still replying to the original post.

 

[bruce119]

Well I don't know what kit we are talking about anymore. But the O.P. asked me and I use sierra tubes from Berea and CSUSA they both measure between 2.210-2.212 about 3/32 short of 2-1/4 so don't know whats up with that kit. I thought all the Sierra type kits used the same size tubes. At least the ones that I have used worked just fine but I have not worked with a Gatsby. I know the click is almost a 1/4" longer at just over 2-3/8". So don't know I haven't bought tubes from Penn State. Mine do wind up just a bit short from time to time from squaring and trimming the ends but it has never been an issue.

.

 

[Smitty37]

close matchup

Well I don't know what kit we are talking about anymore. But the O.P. asked me and I use sierra tubes from Berea and CSUSA they both measure between 2.210-2.212 about 3/32 short of 2-1/4 so don't know whats up with that kit. I thought all the Sierra type kits used the same size tubes. At least the ones that I have used worked just fine but I have not worked with a Gatsby. I know the click is almost a 1/4" longer at just over 2-3/8". So don't know I haven't bought tubes from Penn State. Mine do wind up just a bit short from time to time from squaring and trimming the ends but it has never been an issue.

.

The measurements you are getting on tubes are close to what I get...between .03 and .05 shorter than the 2 1/4 shown in the PSI instructions.

 

[ldb2000]

Bruce ,The difference between the Sierra and the Gatsby V2 is the Gatsby V2 is finial operated , so the length of the tube determines how much the refill sticks out . This length is very critical like a cigar or a Dayacom Elegant Beauty . Change the length of the tube and the refill sticks out too far .

 

[bruce119]

I mite have to try one of these kits. But it would seem to me if that they are that close in size (and I understand the critical length) if you do other types of Sierras it could be easy to get a tube mixed up. So anyone that is making these kits would need to be aware that this kit requires a slightly longer tube other than a standard Sierra. That would be an issue when purchasing blanks from anyone. In a pinch could get a click tube and trim it down.

.

 

[ldb2000]

I make the click Sierras with a shortened tube so I don't have to use the little metal extension thingies , so I cut down a number of Sierra tubes at a time to save me from having to get out the tube saw any time I want to make a click sierra . The problem is I have grabbed the wrong tube on several occasions when I wanted to make a twist sierra . I ended up painting the compartment in my tube storage box so I don't grab those tubes by mistake . I have now done the same thing for these V2 tubes as well . I also measure every one before I use them just to be sure . The sad thing is , even with all these precautions I still used a wrong tube the other day .

 

[Smitty37]

Hmmmm

But I do find literature that says that Gatsby and Sierra use the "same tubes and bushings" Personally I have made a few of each (not many) and have had no issues with tube length, but looking at them I can see that the tube length can be very critical. A little too short and the tip won't retract, a little too long and the tip won't extend far enough.

 

[ldb2000]

There are 2 different versions of these pens . One is the same as a Sierra and uses the same tubes . The other is the V2 (Version 2) which uses a different tube in length . The V2 is finial operated (you twist the part above the clip) .

Edit ;
I have had several of these that came with the regular tubes (2.210") instead of the V2 tubes (2.250")

 

[Smitty37]

Yes ....

There are 2 different versions of these pens . One is the same as a Sierra and uses the same tubes . The other is the V2 (Version 2) which uses a different tube in length . The V2 is finial operated (you twist the part above the clip) .

Edit ;
I have had several of these that came with the regular tubes (2.210") instead of the V2 tubes (2.250")

I have measured a number at the 2.21" length in fact nearly all of them. I am going after my source to replace the tubes in the kits I'm selling with the correct ones which are as you state 2.25 inches...tubes that length will eliminate the problem I think. In the mean time I'm not going to sell any of those kits until I get it fixed.

 

[spnemo]

I have made several of the finial operated gatsby pens. I have also made several wallstreet/sierra pens. As far as I can tell the tubes are identical. In fact, I ran out of sierra tubes because of a blowout so I just substituted one of the gatsby tubes since it was exactly the same size. I have the bushings for both and they too are exactly the same size.

 

[Smitty37]

Hmmm

I contacted Rizheng who make Gatsbys (I think they make PSIs also but I won't bet tthe farm on that) their tube length is about 2.21" on the kits I have. Their response says they have made many trial assemblies and have seen no problems. They also say their big buyers have taken 5000 kits and have reported no problems. They agreed that 2.25" is called out in their instructions and that is the "nominal" but think the 2.21" is within tolerance. They don't plan on doing anything. I do have to admit that on my own assembled pens the tip is fully retracted --- not by much but still fully retracted. I do think I will leave a little extra material on the cap end..starting with the tube slightly recessed.