Production pen making

[Chasper]

It rankles just a bit when I read a statement that any pen made in a very short time period is of poor quality. I think that unless you have spent a few years making a couple thousand or so pens per year, it is hard to imagine how any pen that takes less than an hour to make could be well made.

I consider myself to be a production pen maker and I believe that the amount of time that it takes is as long as it takes to get it right, for me that averages out to about 45 minutes per pen. I have reason to believe that others are considerably faster than me and I accept that they are more skilled than I, and they have found production efficiencies that I have yet to find. I don't write off anyone's claim that they can make finished pens faster than I as an exaggeration, I wish I was faster.

Making a dozen pen per day for about 175 days per year is still a long way from high volume production, but it can get boring and tedious. Anyone who describes their time spent in hours or days per pen is probably enjoying it a great deal more than I, but I do not agree that production turners make inferior quality pens.

 

[DCBluesman]

I couldn't agree more, Gerry. As an example, I have seen Ed Brown's pens in person and they are beautiful. At the height of his show schedule, Ed was producing pens at the rate of 6-8 per hour. His system, skill and practice allowed him to do this. If all it took was time to produce a better product, my first pen would have been a masterpiece!

 

[ed4copies]

thank you Lou.

And it is true that I turned pens REALLY fast. Now, I don't. I have great sympathy for Gerry's statements as I used to read the same thing and become somewhat offended. Folks, the stuff on the floor can come off at LIGHT SPEED, all that matters is the last 2 millimeters you turn.

AND how you finish--buffing is a "god-send".

But I doubt I was EVER the fastest turner here!!

 

[PenMan1]

I make a LOT of pens. 10-20 per week or about 1200-1500 pens per year. I have found that the more I make, the more I slow down.

I have also found that I have become much more critical. Nothing angers me more that to get to the final one or two passes, the final finish CA coat, or the finial fit and press, then screw it up.

On the other side of the coin, I do almost everything at full speed on my Jet Mini VSI. When I drill, cut, sand or finish at low RPMs, bad things always happen! Just my opinion, but on my lathe, in my shop, the faster RPMs produce a smoother cut, cleaner and glossier CA finish and finally a more exacting fit.

I guess I'm trying to say that I am considerably faster at the PROCESSES, but MUCH slower and MUCH MORE deliberate in making the completed product. I also find myself "batch" processing. Everything cut, drilled and glued on Monday, Everything trimmed and turned on Tuesday, finshed on Wednesday, fitted, pressed and inspected on Thursday. Reworks and preparing for show on Friday. Additionally When I'm making JR's that all I make. When making Imperials-1 product. I THINK my processes help ME make a better pen. YOUR MILAGE WILL VARY GREATLY!

About the bottom of my line these days is a Rhineheart. I don't really make slims, cigars, modified slims, modified cigars or cartridge pens. This is simply economics for me. The way I make a slims (very precise fit and 6 CA coats on wood) takes me also as long as a Jr, Imperial or Lotus. The last 3 mentioned are mainstays for my shop and sell almost as fast as I make them. The last cigar I made (amboyna on ultra cigar frame) sold for $50. Not worth the effort.

 

[Dalecamino]

I have to agree with you. When I first received a multi-pen order, the numbers were intimidating. I later learned to not think about how many pens had to be made and, concentrated on one pen at a time and, give each one the same amount of devotion that I would any other pen. Friction polish finish(per customers request) helped to move things along. FWIW

 

[PenMan1]

The biggest thing that I've done to help my speed is a dedicated off-lathe buffing system. It is even in another part of the shop (the clean side). You'd be surprised how long it takes to change from cutting to buffing rig (over and over again). Additionally, I THINK off-lathe buffing gives me a deeper shine.

 

[OKLAHOMAN]

When need be I have been know to turn out (pun intended) 10-15 pens a day. These are 2 barrel pens, Jr's, Emperor's, Majestic, all are acrylic, true stone,PR, none are wood.
I have 2 lathes set up one for turning and one for finishing with a buffing station next to the finishing lathe.
I'd put my quality up against anybodies.
Now when I do wood thats a horse of a completely different story. I turn them on average of the same amount of time but finishing at least 30 minutes some times longer.

 

[PenMan1]

When need be I have been know to turn out (pun intended) 10-15 pens a day. These are 2 barrel pens, Jr's, Emperor's, Majestic, all are acrylic, true stone,PR, none are wood.
I have 2 lathes set up one for turning and one for finishing with a buffing station next to the finishing lathe.
I'd put my quality up against anybodies.
Now when I do wood thats a horse of a completely different story. I turn them on average of the same amount of time but finishing at least 30 minutes some times longer.

I gotta agree with ya Roy, I'd put your quality against anyone's. Additionally, I too, can turn 2 or 3 high end "alternative material" pens in the same or less time that one wood one (and sell the "alts" for more money,too).

I am about to purchase a second lathe, too. This one is going to be a medium to high-end metal lathe/ milling machine. I know that will slow me down even more (I want to make some of my own pieces and parts) and I envision using both lathes at all times.

 

[Rmartin]

I am not a production pen maker. I like to make pens in batches of 10 at a time all the same style. Any more than that and I get sloppy and make mistakes. Generally I do this in a two day process, maybe 4 hours total time involved.

To me it's not about speed but efficiency. It's funny though, even at my turtle speed of pen making, it's like light speed when compared to the 3 to 4 months it takes me to do a commissioned furniture piece.

 

[OKLAHOMAN]

When need be I have been know to turn out (pun intended) 10-15 pens a day. These are 2 barrel pens, Jr's, Emperor's, Majestic, all are acrylic, true stone,PR, none are wood.
I have 2 lathes set up one for turning and one for finishing with a buffing station next to the finishing lathe.
I'd put my quality up against anybodies.
Now when I do wood thats a horse of a completely different story. I turn them on average of the same amount of time but finishing at least 30 minutes some times longer.

I gotta agree with ya Roy, I'd put your quality against anyone's. Additionally, I too, can turn 2 or 3 high end "alternative material" pens in the same or less time that one wood one (and sell the "alts" for more money,too).

I am about to purchase a second lathe, too. This one is going to be a medium to high-end metal lathe/ milling mach and I wanted to pay myself $30ine. I know that will slow me down even more (I want to make some of my own pieces and parts) and I envision using both lathes at all times.

No question on selling non wood pens for a higher price than wood. Which means more $ per hour and when adding all expences up what we are looking for is a higher hourly wage.

 

[Chasper]

I've recently added an off-lathe buffing set-up. Even when I turn 15-20 pens before stopping to buff, it took a lot of time to clean up, change lathe speed and put the buffer on.

I agree that wood takes longer. The actual turning may be as fast or faster, but the finishing takes longer.

Going into the busy show season as we are now, I have several boxes of blanks cut, drilled, painted, tubed and squared. I'm just waiting to get sales feedback and I'll finish them as needed. What really makes a difference for me is that my wife does most of the shows. She has called twice in the last two hours with lists of pens that need to be made. They will be done long before she leaves for the next show next weekend.

 

[jedgerton]

"If all it took was time to produce a better product, my first pen would have been a masterpiece!"

Amen Lou! That comment made me laugh.

I certainly agree that what some people can do in 20 minutes, I may never be able to do in any amount of time. I do know that I enjoy making pens most of the time and that's all it takes for me.

I asked an older woman once at a craft market in Charleston SC how long it took her to make one of her baskets. Her response was "best not to count hours, just make the baskets." I've used that line a few times since then.

John

 

[DCBluesman]

No question on selling non wood pens for a higher price than wood.

Yep...and still I keeping making pretty, wood pens.

I'm a slow learner.

 

[OKLAHOMAN]

No question on selling non wood pens for a higher price than wood.

Yep...and still I keeping making pretty, wood pens.

I'm a slow learner.

One of these days I'll get you over to the dark side.
Especially if you start doing shows. :wink:

 

[lwalden]

I'm getting ready to kick it into gear on a corporate order for 100 Jr Statesman using blue dyed curly maple. These will include turning the upper barrel to within a few thousandths of final size, heading over to my local engraver to have an angled star outline engraved in them, colorfil using Laserbits silver (several coats), then final sanding and CA finishes over the engraving. I would think this constitutes a production run. I have three lathes- one Jet VS for turning between centers, one for applying the CA finish, and one set up with the Beall buffing system. In preparation for this order I went ahead and ordered a couple of extra sets of Norseman bits in 10.5MM and 12.5MM, extra carbide inserts for the two woodchucks I have from Ken (Bitshird), and 3 extra sets of Jr vII bushings from Johnny CNC. Got all the pen kits and extra tubes from CSUSA yesterday, as well as the shipment of blanks from Constant. Guess who's spending some serious quality time in the shop tonight and this weekend?

 

[redfishsc]

Folks, the stuff on the floor can come off at LIGHT SPEED, all that matters is the last 2 millimeters you turn.

100% agreed.... although every once in a while, that last 2 millimeters gets removed violently along with the FIRST two millemeters if I get sloppy with the skew.


I learned how to buff all resin and composite pens, from Ed. Definitely an improvement. I have micro-mesh, but never use it anymore unless I'm wet sanding a lacquer finish (rarely, if ever, anymore).


If I need a "holy freaking cow" gloss, I finish with White Diamond and then re-mount the pen on the lathe, at 3600rpm, and buff it with a cotton cloth saturated in 3m Finesse-It II (for 10-30 seconds, max). That kind of gloss is insane but not always necessary or wanted.

 

[ctubbs]

I have always enjoyed watching a craftsman perform the job. He always makes it look so easy and smooth that even I could do it. Then I go home, grab all the tools he used, and proceed to make the most horendous mess ever concived by the trash man. I can build the electrical and control parts of chemical, power or paper mill plants, but getting the surface of a little ol' 7mm pen blank to by just right, nah, it ain't gonna happen. I can get it close, yes, but never just quiet perfect. Kinda like my spelling, close but no cigar!:redface:

 

[Displaced Canadian]

In my line of work nobody cares how good you are if you are slow. Speed has very little to do with quality. People sometimes can confuse speed with efficiency. If I was to do a pen in 20 min. it would look terrible. If I had to make 300 pens in a short time I would find ways to make the process more efficient which would make it faster. It is also amazing how much time you loose changing from one step to another.

 

[Smitty37]

Speed vs Quality

Years ago my forte was testing electronic subassemblies...I was the highest producer and also the fewest quality defects in the department. The secret was there was very little wasted motion. The same thing can apply to pen making.

If I make one pen...I rough size the blank(s) to tube length, drill the hole(s), rough up the tubes, mix a little glue, apply the glue and insert the tube(s), wait for the glue to set, square up the ends of the blank(s), turn the barrel(s) including sanding and polishing, apply the finish, buff the barrel(s) assemble the pen. All of those steps except the last 3 get much faster if I am making a number of similar pens at the same time. 5 pens take no where near 5 times as long as 1.

 

[Bellsy]

At the height of his show schedule, Ed was producing pens at the rate of 6-8 per hour.

Was this the actual turning time or did this include cutting, drilling, gluing, turning, finishing and assembly?

Dave