Please advise: 1 or more mandrels (buying soon)

[jimmyb]

Hi all, I'm Jim.
I'll be posting an intro in the other section later, but have a pressing question I need to ask, so I can finish buying what I need :bulgy-eyes:

As you might have guessed, I'm very new to penmaking - lathe i still in the box (just got it on sale). This is a bare-bones setup... just a mini Mastercraft lathe, little sander etc... I come from a blade-making background, so I guess I'm going to find out which is mightier (pen/sword, haha)

Anyway, I know this has been asked a few different ways, but please humor me - I have read the other posts.

I have a Morse Taper #1 Lathe.
I want to make all different pens, slim, fat cigars, mix-match etc...

I know Penstate etc... have 1-Mandrel for all (well MT1 or 2, but no "A" and "B" needed).

But others, like my local Lee Valley Tools, require not only MT1 or 2 Mandrels, but those "A" or "B" ones too depending on the pen kit.

I understand (I think), that basically you have to either buy your Mandrel, Bushings and Kits from ONE STORE OR THE OTHER because the bushings are different if A & B are in the mix.

OR am I wrong?

Is it possible to have an MT1 (7mm) Mandrel and bushings, and still get a Pen Kit from something needing "B" Mandrel ???

I'm not suggesting mixing Bushings and Mandrels -- I mean, will the HARDWARE for the pen itself be the same for ALL kits, whether it's a MT1 mandrel or an A or B mandrel kit ?

Does that make sense?

If I understand it right, a Cigar Pen Kit will have the SAME SIZED Pen Tip, Endcap, Tubes whether it's from PSI or from Lee Valley etc... it's just the Mandrel & Bushing sets that are different, right?

Can someone agree or Correct me in baby-steps :biggrin:

I don't want to buy any mandrel, bushings or kits til I understand correctly -- I'm on a SERIOUS BUDGET (any mistakes really cut in)

Thanks all.
And thanks for this Forum !!

 

[Smitty37]

Hi all, I'm Jim.
I'll be posting an intro in the other section later, but have a pressing question I need to ask, so I can finish buying what I need :bulgy-eyes:

As you might have guessed, I'm very new to penmaking - lathe i still in the box (just got it on sale). This is a bare-bones setup... just a mini Mastercraft lathe, little sander etc... I come from a blade-making background, so I guess I'm going to find out which is mightier (pen/sword, haha)

Anyway, I know this has been asked a few different ways, but please humor me - I have read the other posts.

I have a Morse Taper #1 Lathe.
I want to make all different pens, slim, fat cigars, mix-match etc...

I know Penstate etc... have 1-Mandrel for all (well MT1 or 2, but no "A" and "B" needed).

But others, like my local Lee Valley Tools, require not only MT1 or 2 Mandrels, but those "A" or "B" ones too depending on the pen kit.

I understand (I think), that basically you have to either buy your Mandrel, Bushings and Kits from ONE STORE OR THE OTHER because the bushings are different if A & B are in the mix.

OR am I wrong?

Is it possible to have an MT1 (7mm) Mandrel and bushings, and still get a Pen Kit from something needing "B" Mandrel ???

I'm not suggesting mixing Bushings and Mandrels -- I mean, will the HARDWARE for the pen itself be the same for ALL kits, whether it's a MT1 mandrel or an A or B mandrel kit ?

Does that make sense?

If I understand it right, a Cigar Pen Kit will have the SAME SIZED Pen Tip, Endcap, Tubes whether it's from PSI or from Lee Valley etc... it's just the Mandrel & Bushing sets that are different, right?

Can someone agree or Correct me in baby-steps :biggrin:

I don't want to buy any mandrel, bushings or kits til I understand correctly -- I'm on a SERIOUS BUDGET (any mistakes really cut in)

Thanks all.
And thanks for this Forum !!

I have an MT1 lathe and have found no kit that I couldn't turn on it with the PSI MT1 mandrel. Also as you get along you'll probably begin some turning between centers (TBC) where you don't use a mandrel at all. Some turners believe that's the only way to go and they might be right.

 

[jimmyb]

Smitty
Love your ~sig.

Thanks for the reply. I hear that.
Can you clarify, am I right about the belief that the kit, example, Cigar or El Grande will have the same size Pen Tip and Cap and Twist mechanism whether from PSI or a store that uses the A & B different mandrels ? That it's just the bushing that is different (inside diameter, not the size the finished tuning the bushing guides) ?

Respects,
jim

 

[ed4copies]

MOST bushings will fit on any "A" mandrel (unless they are "B" bushings---deep, huh??)

So, you can make nearly any pen on an A mandrel. Berea uses the B mandrel for some of their pens (Cambridge, Churchill), but you CAN find bushings for these pens that are made to fit the A mandrel.

And NO, a name is not ALWAYS universal. The Elegant Beauty Sierra does NOT use the same bushings as the sierra click or the sierra.

Find the instruction page (before you buy from a vendor) and look at which bushings he recommends.

Call them if you don't understand.

 

[Smitty37]

Smitty
Love your ~sig.

Thanks for the reply. I hear that.
Can you clarify, am I right about the belief that the kit, example, Cigar or El Grande will have the same size Pen Tip and Cap and Twist mechanism whether from PSI or a store that uses the A & B different mandrels ? That it's just the bushing that is different (inside diameter, not the size the finished tuning the bushing guides) ?

Respects,
jim

As Ed said, most kits that call for a B mandrel will have bushings available for the A and nearly all kits use the A mandrel.

Now kits made by different manufacturers do not always use the same bushings as a kit with the same name from another manufacturer. And to confuse the issue even more kits with different names often do. For instance PSI Gatsby and Berea Hardwoods Sierra and at least 3 or 4 kits with different names all use the same bushings.

 

[jimmyb]

Thank you guys for making this clear.
Be buying my Morse 1 Mandrel shortly !!

Getting closer 8)

 

[bobjackson]

The B mandrel is a little thicker and sometimes is used for larger pens. The mandrel being thicker, will not be as likely to wobble with too much pressure from a chisel. I do everything with an A mandrel.

 

[Haynie]

This is the best reference paper on this site for bushings and other measurements. In fact, in a pinch I have used it to make my own bushings.

http://content.penturners.org/library/general_reference/bushingsandtubes.pdf

 

[jimmyb]

Now... which "version" of this mandrel... ahhhh

THANK YOU ALL.

So, I'm sticking to the simple MT1 (some list as "A") Mandrel.

BUT.... the few stores I'm looking at, the mandrels look completely different... some have collars, some have spacers, etc....

Could someone suggest what is the best way to go (I am on the cheap, but don't want to get stuck with something I'll need to buy more parts for).

Here's the links to the one's I'm looking at.... thanks

#2 MT Basic Mandrel at Penn State Industries

Pen Making :: Pen Making Tools :: Pen Mandrel - Pen Kits, Pen blanks, Clock Kits and wood turning accessories.

Mandrels - Lee Valley Tools

Buy Pen Mandrel MT1 Woodturning - B2921 from Busy Bee Tools


Thank you for all your helps !

 

[randyrls]

Jimmy; The #2MT or #1MT and variations thereof refers to the fitting in the headstock of the lathe. It has nothing to do with the shaft size of the mandrel. MT stands for "Morse Taper". The "A" mandrel has a shaft about 7mm in diameter. The "B" mandrel has a shaft about 5/16" in diameter.

So there are FOUR unique combinations of mandrels. If you lathe has an MT1 taper, you want an MT1 "A" shaft mandrel. This will fit any pen you are likely to want to make for a long time. When you order bushings if there are "A" and "B" bushing sizes specified just make sure you get the "A" size. A company named Berea is about the only ones that use the "B" size shaft. I believe all their bushings are available for both "A" and "B" size shafts.

Ohh; Final thought. Bushings are only a good guide to getting the pen body to match the fittings. You will want a cheap caliper to measure the blank size and the fitting sizes. They can be had from Harbor Freight for about $10. Get the 4" digital or dial calipers. If you already have this, you are ahead.

Lat edit, promise! Spend some time the library. There is a lot of good information there. Alos check out the Wiki. Many members contributed to it's creation and there is a lot common sense there as well. Look at the top of every page for links to both the Library, and the Wiki.

 

[jimmyb]

Hey mate. Thanks. I found that much out (thankfully, haha). What I meant in the post was, of the MT1 mandrels I'm looking at, they each seem different... some have spacers, some cones, some nothing, some adjust etc...

Not sure what I can "get away with", which ones might not be an ideal madrel etc... Know what I mean ?

((thank goodness for the NEVER BUY KIT thread too.... maybe I have bad taste but it saved me from a few kits I was considering, haha)

 

[BSea]

Before you decide for sure, you might want to go to the library & read about "Turning Between Centers". When I started I read about TBC, and it made so much more sense to me than using a mandrel. Now I know many people (probably most) started with a mandrel, and have been happy. TBC is just another method, and the bushings can be either A or B, or non at all.

I'm not trying to talk you out of getting a mandrel. I just think that you should know all your options before buying.

 

[jimmyb]

@BSea - thanks. Checked it out on Youtube... looks like a serious option.

Anyone TBC using just standard bushings instead of special TBC bushings ?

Thanks

 

[BSea]

@BSea - thanks. Checked it out on Youtube... looks like a serious option.

Anyone TBC using just standard bushings instead of special TBC bushings ?

Thanks

I use them for some kits that I don't do often. And some I don't use bushings at all. However, for kits that I do often, I buy the bushings from JohnnyCNC.

EDIT: I guess I could have left the link Penturners Products .

And the normal disclaimer: I'm in no way associated with Penturners Products, other than a satisfied customer.

 

[jimmyb]

Hey... so, just to be sure, you MUST have bushings specially made for TBC for the type of pen you want (you can't just use the standard bushings for mandrels) ?

 

[paintspill]

another thing you might want to look at also as a new turner is the starter packs at your suppliers. they will have the drill bits, bushings, and usually 2 pen kits. its a great way to try a new pen.

 

[BSea]

Hey... so, just to be sure, you MUST have bushings specially made for TBC for the type of pen you want (you can't just use the standard bushings for mandrels) ?

No. You can use standard bushings. They will work just fine. But they won't last as long as the made for TBC bushings. Also, the tolerances for the standard bushings don't seem to be as precise as the bushing from Penturners Products. I don't know this from personal experience, but it's been reported on this forum several times.

 

[jimmyb]

Hi Bob - yeah, I found a thread after posting about it. Not in my budget so I'll have to try standard bushings for a while.

Marc... my local suppliers have nothing. Most everything I want will be mail-order, which makes it tough as everything is sight unseen, and trying to find out sizes (if I have a certain size pen blank, which tips can I make works etc, can't be checked hands on).

Fun.....

 

[BSea]

Most everything I want will be mail-order, which makes it tough as everything is sight unseen, and trying to find out sizes (if I have a certain size pen blank, which tips can I make works etc, can't be checked hands on).

Fun.....

Many of us are in the same boat. There is almost nothing local for pen turning. The only lathe I've ever seen locally is from Harbor freight.

 

[jimmyb]

Yeah, I had to buy the cheapie Canadian Tire Mini Lathe. At $99 it was perfect (grin)
Hopefully, it being a pen-lathe will be perfect too (already know the handles can break, but got a ton of vise-grips).

Kits start at $7 for basic and $20 for most anything else, so it's definitely a mail away.
The mandrel at Lee Valley is only $15 but no spacers or anything.
Gotta check if I got a dead center for the lathe for TBC or if I must buy one.

Any hoot. Thanks again everyone. Avoiding big mistakes at the start will make this more enjoyable to get going ! Trying to get the new outside building built to move my tools in !! (I only get a corner space for this and knife making, errr)

 

[Curly]

We don't use special bushings to turn between centers. Just the regular ones. Dead centers can be had at Busy Bee for under $10.

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner because I can't reach my desktop!

 

[jimmyb]

Pete, thanks. I just called BusyBee and they only have them for MT2, and the other machine shop in my area, also only for MT2.

My Canadian Tire jobbie is MT1 ahhhhhh

 

[Curly]

Grizzly has them and they will send to us. Might have to up the order a bit if they have a minimum quantity. I haven't checked.

H5788 HSS Lathe Center MT1

 

[jimmyb]

Thanks Pete,
just shot them off an email

 

[Smitty37]

Hey... so, just to be sure, you MUST have bushings specially made for TBC for the type of pen you want (you can't just use the standard bushings for mandrels) ?

No. You can use standard bushings. They will work just fine. But they won't last as long as the made for TBC bushings. Also, the tolerances for the standard bushings don't seem to be as precise as the bushing from Penturners Products. I don't know this from personal experience, but it's been reported on this forum several times.

Standard bushings are a massed produced product and as such probably will be turned with looser specs than the hand made ones. That being the case you will be more likely to get a bushing that is not exact in size or shape than from John.

 

[PenMan1]

The only component set, to my knowledge, that DOESN'T have "A" bushings commercially available is the Berea Perfect Fit Convertible. I have found bushings in "a" sizing for every other component set.

The Perfect Fit bushings are rather simple and could easily be "home manufactured" for a "A" mandrel.

 

[jimmyb]

Thanks guys.

And about Grizzly... $50 minimum to Canada, and all I need is a $5 dead center, so guess not. Also, they only ship UPS ground.... I avoid anything shipped UPS.

Oh well, that's life.
Next page

 

[Curly]

Okay, then give Shars a try.

shars.com - 1MT Steel Morse Taper Solid Dead Center

 

[Andrew_K99]

My advice ... FWIW ...

Use the Mastercraft lathe with a standard MT1 pen mandral and don't worry about any lathe specific upgrades until you have spent some time with the lathe. If you are like me you'll want to upgrade to a better lathe very soon. The accessories you buy for the Mastercraft lathe (MT1 3/4"-16) aren't the standard and will likely become useless if you upgrade to a better lathe (MT2 and typically 1"-8). I say this from experience; I have just upgraded my lathe and sold my MT1 3/4-16 accessories taking a decent loss.

 

[Smitty37]

My advice ... FWIW ...

Use the Mastercraft lathe with a standard MT1 pen mandral and don't worry about any lathe specific upgrades until you have spent some time with the lathe. If you are like me you'll want to upgrade to a better lathe very soon. The accessories you buy for the Mastercraft lathe (MT1 3/4"-16) aren't the standard and will likely become useless if you upgrade to a better lathe (MT2 and typically 1"-8). I say this from experience; I have just upgraded my lathe and sold my MT1 3/4-16 accessories taking a decent loss.

I thought like that myself when I bought my first lathe about 4-5 years ago...I still have it and still use it.

 

[paintspill]

well i learned the hard way today. got some great new kits in the mail only to find out one of the pen kits takes a 'b' mandrel. suprise suprise. oh well live and learn. ordered the mandrel today and should be here thursday or friday.

 

[jimmyb]

Andrew, my Mastercraft lathe is a MT1 1" x8tpi (not 3/4" 16tpi)