Plating woes on cost/material, marketing.

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edstreet

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No longer confused....
I discovered something interesting of note that is rather alarming. I took various pen kits from several vendors (which shall be nameless for this entire thread) dumped the plating type, cost kit, vendor into a spreadsheet. I then did some differential tests on cost in regards to 10k vs rhodium, 22k vs rhodium, rhodium vs black Ti and so forth. The results yielded some consistent patterns. Which does indeed raise some alarming questions.

First gotcha that I noticed was slimlines vs Gent Jr's,
Slimine: 10k to rhodium diff = $2.30 (meaning gold is cheaper)
Gent Jr: 10k to rhodium diff = -$8.90 (meaning gold is cheaper)

Now that is a very interesting spread. slimline to gent Jr difference is $6.60. Possibly for the surface area of the gent, or so I thought. So I looked to the Statesman Jr's since it's the same size as a Gent Jr. Statesman is listed at 22k and not 10k, also black Ti vs rhodium.

Statesman Jr: 22k to Black Ti diff = $5.30.

But wait, Gent Jr spread was $8.90, so statesman Jr is $5.30? Given the statesman has a LARGER surface area to cover (2 inserts in statesman vs 1 in gent, bigger center band in statesman vs tiny ring in gents) one would expect a LARGER spread in the statesman but nope. I then thought perhaps it's the gold to black Ti, so I threw in the slimlines and euro's to compare.

Euro: 22k to Black Ti diff = $0.10. (meaning gold is cheaper)
Euro: 10k to Rhodium diff = $2.30. (meaning gold is cheaper)

So...
In 10k gold plating seems to be cheaper than rhodium plating.
In 22k gold plating seems to be more expensive than rhodium plating.

In Black Ti to Rhodium the plating difference seemed to be stead at $2.00 - $2.20

So in another thread this is a quote from a user (not ment to single anyone out but wanted to show reference to 'real world' pricing)
I get my clips plated here in the US and the last time I did the gold surcharge over silver and Rhodium was $19.25 per 500 pieces that less than 4 cents each. I just don't see the cost of the plating being a large factor in the cost of the component set. They are the only makers of it and as the only place to get a component set as big and blingly your paying their price. Betcha their % of profit per piece is much higher than their less expensive component sets.

So gold *SHOULD* be more $ than rhodium, yet the mentioned kits the only one that is the case is the statesman. Really makes me question the 'gold' in the slimlines, euro's and gent series as I suspect it's not gold but probably something like enamel.

Also worth noting in the rhodium to chrome cost difference was $3.30 with chrome behing lower cost. Yet rhodium plating is something like 0.05% rhodium contents, not enough to make much of a difference, other than marketing label to say 'rhodium'.

Order of lower $ to higher $:
gent: 10k, black Ti, rhodium
euro: 22k, 10k, black Ti, rhodium
slimline: 22k, chrome, 10k, black Ti, rhodium
statesman: black Ti, 22k

complete opposite.
 
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Gary Beasley

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Quite interesting. One factor to consider is the process cost for each plating which may have an effect due to the number of steps involved. I know chrome plating has to have a nickel plating down first then a much thinner layer of chrome. Any idea what has to be done to get rhodium to plate? I think gold plating may be simpler and use a super thin layer of gold. That can account for the cost difference.
 

OKLAHOMAN

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Also consider that the hardness of the metal will let the plater use less thickness, being Rhodium and Titanium are 6, gold 2.5, chrome 3-4. A much thinner layer of Rhodium vs gold or chrome will still give a much harder surface.
 

Smitty37

Passed Away Mar 29, 2018
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I discovered something interesting of note that is rather alarming. I took various pen kits from several vendors (which shall be nameless for this entire thread) dumped the plating type, cost kit, vendor into a spreadsheet. I then did some differential tests on cost in regards to 10k vs rhodium, 22k vs rhodium, rhodium vs black Ti and so forth. The results yielded some consistent patterns. Which does indeed raise some alarming questions.

First gotcha that I noticed was slimlines vs Gent Jr's,
Slimine: 10k to rhodium diff = $2.30 (meaning gold is cheaper)
Gent Jr: 10k to rhodium diff = -$8.90 (meaning gold is cheaper)

Now that is a very interesting spread. slimline to gent Jr difference is $6.60. Possibly for the surface area of the gent, or so I thought. So I looked to the Statesman Jr's since it's the same size as a Gent Jr. Statesman is listed at 22k and not 10k, also black Ti vs rhodium.

Statesman Jr: 22k to Black Ti diff = $5.30.

But wait, Gent Jr spread was $8.90, so statesman Jr is $5.30? Given the statesman has a LARGER surface area to cover (2 inserts in statesman vs 1 in gent, bigger center band in statesman vs tiny ring in gents) one would expect a LARGER spread in the statesman but nope. I then thought perhaps it's the gold to black Ti, so I threw in the slimlines and euro's to compare.

Euro: 22k to Black Ti diff = $0.10. (meaning gold is cheaper)
Euro: 10k to Rhodium diff = $2.30. (meaning gold is cheaper)

So...
In 10k gold plating seems to be cheaper than rhodium plating.
In 22k gold plating seems to be more expensive than rhodium plating.

In Black Ti to Rhodium the plating difference seemed to be stead at $2.00 - $2.20

So in another thread this is a quote from a user (not ment to single anyone out but wanted to show reference to 'real world' pricing)
I get my clips plated here in the US and the last time I did the gold surcharge over silver and Rhodium was $19.25 per 500 pieces that less than 4 cents each. I just don't see the cost of the plating being a large factor in the cost of the component set. They are the only makers of it and as the only place to get a component set as big and blingly your paying their price. Betcha their % of profit per piece is much higher than their less expensive component sets.

So gold *SHOULD* be more $ than rhodium, yet the mentioned kits the only one that is the case is the statesman. Really makes me question the 'gold' in the slimlines, euro's and gent series as I suspect it's not gold but probably something like enamel.

Also worth noting in the rhodium to chrome cost difference was $3.30 with chrome behing lower cost. Yet rhodium plating is something like 0.05% rhodium contents, not enough to make much of a difference, other than marketing label to say 'rhodium'.

Order of lower $ to higher $:
gent: 10k, black Ti, rhodium
euro: 22k, 10k, black Ti, rhodium
slimline: 22k, chrome, 10k, black Ti, rhodium
statesman: black Ti, 22k

complete opposite.
Interesting data but I'm not sure what the issue is Ed.

The company I buy from has a few cents differential between 24K gold, gun metal, chrome, black chrome, etc. and Rhodium, Gold TN and Black Ti but their highest price finishes are things like Antique Copper Rose of something of that nature where the value of the raw materials in the same or lower than their typical platings.

At the retail level the difference in price between 24K and Rhodium might amount to $1.00 to $2.00 per kit on most of the kits I sell.

One thing that might affect prices that is not really visible to us is the cost of plating rhodium vs Gold (I wouldn't bet that they use the exact same process) that could be why Rhodium is usually higher priced. I do know for sure that Gold Tn and Black Ti use a different plating process than the metals use. I tend to think (but don't know for sure) that the process is a little more expensive.

The other issue that clouds the cost of plating is that what I or any other vendor pays for a kit is only loosely connedted to plating cost. Simply because one plating represents a bigger raw material cost to my supplier does not mean I will pay a higher price. His total volume for that kit, the size of my order for that kit, the total size of my order and probably some other things will go into the bottom line.

For most or the worldwide suppliers, the demand for 24k gold plating is the highest demand they have, so on some kits they can always optimize the production run for 24k gold, while with lower demand black Ti, gold Tn, and Rhodium they very likely have more problems optimizing the production runs. That difference could easily account for at least part of the difference in price.
 

Dan Hintz

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People take a slimline and put a piece of typical Maple on it... $20. Same slimline, but a nice burl is used that cost $1 more than the Maple... $60.

Lesson? The cost of raw materials is only one of many variables used in pricing an item. Some here keep assuming that because one item costs more than another the raw material cost should be the cause... somehow they fail to see that maybe it's just the manufacturer realizing people like one raw material over another and therefore can charge more.

Yes, raw material 'A' may actually cost more than 'B', but to assume that's the cost differential in and of itself... well, it's shortsighted, and flies in the face of the same logic we all use every day to price our own products. Perspective... it's all about perspective.
 

Smitty37

Passed Away Mar 29, 2018
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That is true of anything - raw material cost might effect whether I will make a product or not but it will not really be the major determinate of what I sell the product for.

If I can't recover costs, I won't make the product at all.

But suppose the cost of raw materials is 10% of the cost of the product I want to make and most of that is the cost of the raw materials for plating. Even doubling that cost would not have a huge effect on my final manufacturing cost.

Given that nearly all pen parts we use are plated there are a lot of things that go into pricing totally unrelated to raw material costs. And, in fact, at the retail level in this business, competition has much more to do with pricing than cost.

As an example PSI right now lists their bolt action kits at $12.95 to $14.95. You can go to the bank that at least a pretty good part of that price is because they have the exclusive right to sell that kit in the USA becaue they own the patent. No competition plus popular product equals higher price. Regarless of raw material costs.
 
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