phenolic materials

[wolftat]

Has anyone ever turned a pen made out of Phenolic material? If so, how did it come out? I have access to some rods and was thinking about turning some.

 

[Skye]

Do a search for Bakelite on here. It's supposed to be phel.... phenl.... the same stuff.

 

[wolftat]

Do a search for Bakelite on here. It's supposed to be phel.... phenl.... the same stuff.

That just put a big smile on my face...LOL I am going to see how much they want to part with. Too bad it isn't the old stock stuff.
Is there any difference in the grades that would matter to us for turning?

 

[Skye]

I gots no clue on that. Never knew there were grades.

What colors do they have? Are they single color rods for industrial/commercial purposes or multi color rods for artsy fartsy things?

 

[wolftat]

They are the single colored industrial rods. The colors are copper, brown, and green.

I just spoke with the guy that has them and he is willing to sell them to me at $10/ft. What do you think? worth buying?

 

[Russianwolf]

Whoa...... Bakelite is not the same as Phenolic. One is basically plastic (I've heard it can have cloth or even asbestos in it, but haven't seen any like that), the other is either paper, cloth, or fiberglass impregnated with resin. I have some G-10 (fiberglass) Phenolic and it's very hard stuff. polishes beautifully. I haven't finished a pen from it yet, but I'm working on one (along with about 30 others right now).

Here's a link to here I got mine. $10 per foot is expensive except for the G-10 (green) I think http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/pr...e=USPlastic&category_name=79&product_id=17363

 

[wolftat]

And the smile goes away..........
I'll look into this a little more before I make any purchases. Thanks

 

[wood-of-1kind]

I've done phenolic that is also called GAROLITE. Turns OK but smells terribly. As previously stated not same as BAKELITE. If you can get BAKELITE at $10 per foot, that would be a bargain.

 

[maxwell_smart007]

phenolic is what many router tables are made from...It looks nothing like Bakelite...

10/ft for a rod seems high for phenolic too!

Andrew

 

[Skye]

Bakelite (see Phenolic or Micarta)
Bakelite is a brand named material based on the thermosetting phenol formaldehyde resin polyoxybenzylmethylenglycolanhydride, developed in 1907-1909 by Dr. Leo Baekeland. Formed by the reaction under heat and pressure of phenol and formaldehyde, generally with a wood flour filler, it was the first plastic made from synthetic polymers. It was used for its nonconductive and heat-resistant properties in radio and telephone casings and electrical insulators.

Structure of BakeliteDue to its hardness and durability, it was considered as a material for making pennies in the United States during World War II, due to copper being needed for shell casings. Several patterns were made in 1942, but steel was used instead in 1943 and recycled shell casings in 1944 and 1945. Bakelite Corp. was formed in 1922 from General Bakelite Co., Condensite Corp. and Redmanol Co. The company was acquired by Union Carbide and Carbon Corp. in 1938.

Bakelite Limited was formed in 1927 from the amalgamation of three suppliers of phenol formaldehyde materials: the Damard Lacquer Company Limited of Birmingham; Mouldensite Limited of Darley Dale and Redmanol Limited of London. Around 1928, a new factory opened in Tyseley, Birmingham in September 1931. It was demolished in 1998.

Phenolics are little used in general consumer products today due to the cost and complexity of production and their brittle nature. An exception to the overall decline is the use in small precision-shaped components where their specific properties are required, such as molded disc brake cylinders, saucepan handles, electrical plugs and switches, and electrical iron parts. Today, Bakelite is manufactured under various commercial brand names such as Micarta. Micarta is produced in sheets, rods and tubes for hundreds of industrial applications in the electronics, power generation and aerospace industries.

The retro appeal of old Bakelite products, especially kitchenware and toys, has made them quite collectible in recent years: A quick search of, for example, eBay turns up hundreds of listings for all things Bakelite, ranging from radios to poker chips to telephones.

Bakelite Phenolic sheet is a hard, dense material made by applying heat and pressure to layers of paper or glass cloth impregnated with synthetic resin. These layers of laminations are usually of cellulose paper, cotton fabrics, synthetic yarn fabrics, glass fabrics or unwoven fabrics. When heat and pressure are applied to the layers, a chemical reaction (polymerization) transforms the layers into a high-pressure thermosetting industrial laminated plastic.

Bakelite Phenolic is produced in dozens of commercial grades to meet mechanical, electrical and thermal requirements.

PAPER REINFORCED PHENOLIC NEMA XX per MIL-I-24768 PBG Normal electrical applications, moderate mechanical strength, continuous operating temperature of 250°F.

CANVAS REINFORCED PHENOLIC NEMA C per MIL-I-24768 TYPE FBM NEMA CE per MIL-I-24768 TYPE FBG Good mechanical and impact strength with contiunuous operating temperature of 250°F.
LINEN REINFORCED PHENOLIC NEMA L per MIL-I-24768 TYPE FBI NEMA LE per MIL-I-24768 TYPE FEI Good mechanical & electrical strength. Recommended for intricate high strength parts. Continuous operating temperature 250°F.
NYLON REINFORCED PHENOLIC NEMA N-1 per MIL-I-24768 TYPE NPG Superior electrical properties under humid conditions, fungus resistant, continuous operating temperature of 160°F.

Commercial names include: Bakelite, Bakelit, Baquelita, Bakélite, Bachelite, Bakeliet, Bakelit, Baquelite, Bakeliitti, Bakelit

I think the problem is people are using the name Bakelite wrong. I think since we typically turn a product made by Bakelite, we're assuming everything by Bakelite is pen suitable material. That's why I was asking if it was the industrial material or the artsy material. They make both industrial, layered material stuff as well as pretty stuff. That's what I'm assuming anyhow.

The stuff I was thinking of that is the other form of Bakelite was blueish green, it was layered, it is also popular in knife handles. Anyone remember who made it? Think it was Ed Davidson.

*edit* This stuff is what I was thinking of:

 

[wolftat]

Those pens look a lot like Micarta which is am impregnated linen often used for handles on knives. It is probably a trademark name for the same stuff.
I appreciate all the input on this, but it doesn't look like I am going to go crazy yet about buying it. The guy is sending me a sample and I will see if it works for pens or if it is just another idea to pass on.

 

[Skye]

^ That's what it was! I knew the process sounded like the industrial Bakelite.

 

[WriteON]

Old thread renewed. I have a rolled and molded brown phenolic rod. Using it for a pool cue repair. Can I use for a pen blank. It's for a Dog Pen ( gift to a cue maker). Blank is 3.310". Will I regret trying to drill it out and finishing it? Stuff is expensive at $49 for a 46" rod. Talk me in or out of it. Thanks