Perect fit convertible kit

[pipeyeti]

I am looking to add another ball point to my line. The cigar has been very popular but I am looking for something that falls in between the size of the cigar and the 7mm euro style pen. My questions are what is the finished diamiter of the perfect fit? I know this varies from turner to turner, just looking for an average? What is your opinion on the quality of the kit? Fit and finish of the parts? Who has the best pricing on the kit? I have been seeing a wide ranger of quality from manufacturer to manufacturer on the euro kits and looking for a more consistent quality kit. Thanks in advance for your input.

 

[rherrell]

In my opinion the quality is excellent. The PF and the Jr. Gent are the only ballpoints I make. I also like the fact you can convert it to a pencil. Makes a nice matched set. I don't have access to one right now so I don't have the exact size but it's in between a Cigar and a 7mm Euro, just what you're looking for.
I get mine from Bear Tooth Woods and Arizona Sillhouette.

 

[alamocdc]

The PF is one of my favorite twist pens as well. I make a lot of them. IIRC the finished diameter is about .5" at its widest and it definitely falls between the 7mm Euro and Cigar.

 

[Chasper]

I like the perfect fit, especially the ability to turn it into a pencil, but I think it is priced a little high. I've been turning Streamlines (flat top and round top) as alternative to Slimlines and a smaller diameter than Cigars. Bear Tooth and AzSilho are great suppliers at a good price for both.

 

[ed4copies]

Larry, et al,

The perfect fit LOOKS very nice. I started a thread like this many moons ago and created a big stir, so I dropped it. Now, most of the stirrers have found a new home, so we can probably have an intelligent conversation without losing friends.

The perfect fit has a plastic transmission - I prefer metal (PERSONAL opinion)
When you make the pen without modifying anything, the top may or may not engage the transmission, so it MAY not extend the refill.
Whether it extends the refill or not, if you wish to REPLACE the refill, the top will come off, without removing the transmission. The transmission is EXPOSED and the customer will have to remove IT to replace the refill, then replace the transmission and replace the "cap".

I think this is "Mickey Mouse". But, I have debated it with at least TWO friends whose opinions I value, who feel it is FINE.

So, let the debate begin!!!

Proposed: The Perfect Fit is a beautiful pen, but not properly designed to be considered a "high-end writing instrument" (any pen over $25): Pros vs cons

 

[rherrell]

Ed, I get more than $25 for mine but I don't consider it high end.
As far as the transmission being plastic, that doesn't bother me. I like the way it works. The overall look of the pen is what I like.I think it's the best looking of all the ballpoints. The fact that you can convert it to a pencil and are able to change the CB to create a new look are pluses also.

 

[Dario]

I love the looks of Perfect Fit (was once among my favorites) but have to agree with Ed.

A few of our user pens, have failed tranny after months of use because it wore off. Some also felt "wobbly" or loose at the middle after that. I stopped making them due to these. I just don't want anyone who paid me $$$ to have similar problems later. A pity since I think it is one of the classiest looking pen out there. Cigar actually feel much more solid.

My favorite now is the Jr Gent twist pen on the ballpoint category followed by the Round Top Euro.

Just my personal opinion and observation.

 

[pipeyeti]

Thanks for being honest Ed! thats exactly what I was looking for. So what is the alternative? Jr Gent BP? The Hart double twist from woodcraft?Any history with those?

 

[bjackman]

I'll chime in here on the other side.
The tranny in the PF (and I think it's twin in the El Grande BP) is my favorite of any made.
For me, the way the transmission extends/locks the refill in place with an almost audible "snick" (my word [)] ) is very satisfying. On the issue of the way the top of the tranny engages the inner locking tube, I measure before I finish turning. Sometimes I shorten the upper tube some to make sure the tranny fully and completely engages the inner tube. I'm probably overly cautious on this issue because many of the PF's I make are recessed clip with a closed end on the top so I have to make sure my length is correct long before I get to actually assemble the pen.

So let's talk about what we're comparing it to.

Standard 7mm: yes, it's steel, but in my experience suffers from far more slippage in the tube than does the PF tranny. Also, I have never quite been able to get over the sluggish feel of the 7mm trannys. Yes, for the most part they twist out and lock in place just fine, but the feel just doesn't grab me the way the PF does. Grab what is considered to be a high end BP, (come on , I know you've all got a Mont Blanc sitting around somewhere. [}] ) Twist it to extend out the tip. How does it feel. More like a 7mm or more like a PF?

Double twist (cigar, etc): I HATE these. To me, these just scream cheap! You always wonder if you're really in that "center" spot where the refill is up. Twist it too hard the wrong way and you are unscrewing the whole pen.

I really like the PF and would highly recommend it to anyone. True it's not the simplest kit to make and make well, but the finished product IMONSHO can be one of the best you can make in a BP.

 

[Dan_F]

I just bought a bunch of these, but haven't made any yet. It seems the issue with the detractors is a matter of durability in the long run. What say the defenders about durability? Have you used one (or more) for a long period of time?

Dan

 

[ed4copies]

Bill

After your "tender, loving care" method, can you rest assured the transmission will unscrew WITH the cap???? Or, do you occasionally find one that the cap just comes off, leaving the transmission exposed???

(This is my major complaint about this kit - others believe it should not bother me at all ---- to each his own!)

 

[Dan_F]

Another nice pen to fill in that range is the Sierra, and the slightly more rotund Sierra Vista, which is still a bit slimmer than the Cigar. Thanks for the tip on the Jr Gent, I'll be giving that a try.

Dan

 

[bjackman]

Originally posted by ed4copies

Bill

After your "tender, loving care" method, can you rest assured the transmission will unscrew WITH the cap???? Or, do you occasionally find one that the cap just comes off, leaving the transmission exposed???

(This is my major complaint about this kit - others believe it should not bother me at all ---- to each his own!)

Ed,
Your esteemed associates are correct, it shouldn't bother you... [}]
Seriously, I understand your concern, but honestly I'm not sure that is the way it is supposed to work.
I prefer to pop off the cap, then unscrew the tranny, change out the refill, and reverse the order. This is the way I instruct my customers to do it as well.
Yes, with a little careful planning and measuring you can get it so snug up in there that it is probably easier to unscrew the tranny with the cap, but I find many people "field strip" their pens far more often than they change the refill. I know I do. [:I]

 

[bjackman]

Originally posted by Dan_F

I just bought a bunch of these, but haven't made any yet. It seems the issue with the detractors is a matter of durability in the long run. What say the defenders about durability? Have you used one (or more) for a long period of time?

Dan

Dan,
I have a couple of these in daily use with current and former co-workers and they each have more than a year's use. I'm comfortable with them, but YMMV

 

[ed4copies]

Originally posted by bjackman

Originally posted by ed4copies

Bill

After your "tender, loving care" method, can you rest assured the transmission will unscrew WITH the cap???? Or, do you occasionally find one that the cap just comes off, leaving the transmission exposed???

(This is my major complaint about this kit - others believe it should not bother me at all ---- to each his own!)

Ed,
Your esteemed associates are correct, it shouldn't bother you... [}]
Seriously, I understand your concern, but honestly I'm not sure that is the way it is supposed to work.I prefer to pop off the cap, then unscrew the tranny, change out the refill, and reverse the order. This is the way I instruct my customers to do it as well.
Yes, with a little careful planning and measuring you can get it so snug up in there that it is probably easier to unscrew the tranny with the cap, but I find many people "field strip" their pens far more often than they change the refill. I know I do. [:I]

As I said, I have HAD this debate with OTHER esteemed friends. I don't believe you must AGREE with me to remain friends - seemingly a novel concept to some.

So, my last question, "Can you name ONE major manufacturer who puts out a ballpoint where you need to take off TWO parts to replace a refill???" Realizing that "kit pens" already suffer a stigma, WHY would you add another, unneeded, objection?????





Yes, I have made the Jr. Gent and I like its mechanics. It is not as nice LOOKING, with the "bullet nib" (which gives it a "tip-heavy" appearance). The Perfect fit is a really nice LOOKING pen, wish I liked it's other features

 

[bjackman]

[quoteSo, my last question, "Can you name ONE major manufacturer who puts out a ballpoint where you need to take off TWO parts to replace a refill???" Realizing that "kit pens" already suffer a stigma, WHY would you add another, unneeded, objection?????[/quote]

I love a challenge! I'll do a little exploring and get back to you.

 

[wdcav1952]

Ed,

Oh yea, says you!!

[}]

 

[Mudder]

Originally posted by ed4copies



The perfect fit has a plastic transmission - I prefer metal (PERSONAL opinion)

Are you speaking of an ALL METAL transmission because I have only seen one (Most others have plastic guts)

What you have illustrated to me is something that I have run up against selling fountain pens and that is "perception".

Many collectors have the "perception" that a fountain pen made from wood is inferior because if it were better then ALL of the major manufacturers would make them from wood but they do not; therefore wood is inferior to plastic.

All that I can contribute from experience is that I have made and sold quite a few perfect fits and I have never had one returned because of a transmission problem.

Originally posted by ed4copies

So, my last question, "Can you name ONE major manufacturer who puts out a ballpoint where you need to take off TWO parts to replace a refill???"

I suspect that we are not comparing apples to apples here. First we'll have to find how many major manufacturers make a twist pen and then go from there. I'm not up on all the major manufacturers so I'm afraid I will not be of much help.

 

[Chasper]

Proposed: The Perfect Fit is a beautiful pen, but not properly designed to be considered a "high-end writing instrument" (any pen over $25):

It took me a while to think about this quote, but I'm in full agreement. "High-end writing instruments" have a starting price point somewhere around $20-$25, maybe less. There are some very nice manufactured pens available for well under $20. The $20 slimline is a luxury pen. Not so much as a $250 Emperor, but still at the low end of luxury.

It is never acceptable to say that some minor flaws, operational problems, or durability issues are acceptable because the pen only sells for $25. As far as I can tell, the Papermate Flexgrip Ultra that I'm holding right now (box of 12 for $3.95) is an outstanding operational pen, perfectly manufactured, and other than a tendency to show teeth marks on the back end, highly durable. These quality attributes are the price of admission to the "high-end writing instruments" market.

I haven't examined and tested the Perfect Fit closely enough yet to be able to comment on its functional dependability and durability, but I agree that there is no room for less than perfection in the operational attributes of a luxury pen, and anything over $20 is in the luxury category.

I'm sorry to re-hijack this thread, but I don't think I've heard a good discussion of Ed's comment about "not properly designed to be considered a 'high-end writing instrument.'"

 

[wdcav1952]

Damn you Ed4Copies, stop jinxing me!! When I got to work this morning my assistant showed me the Perfect Fit lilac pen I gave her and asked why the nib wouldn't come out. The transmission failed, the first time I have ever had this happen. If I apologise and pray three times a day toward Wisconsin while kneeling on a cheese wheel will you remove the curse???

 

[rherrell]

A $20 or $25 pen might be considered high end compared to a BIC put I certainly wouldn't call it high end. TO ME you need to pay more than $15 for a kit to call it high end. I think a Jr. Statesman would be a good place to start talking about high end.

 

[ed4copies]

Originally posted by wdcav1952

Damn you Ed4Copies, stop jinxing me!! When I got to work this morning my assistant showed me the Perfect Fit lilac pen I gave her and asked why the nib wouldn't come out. The transmission failed, the first time I have ever had this happen. If I apologise and pray three times a day toward Wisconsin while kneeling on a cheese wheel will you remove the curse???

Alas,poor Cavick, I cannot waste my powers on your Imperfect Fits.
Save your prayers for the important things in life.

HOWEVER, if you send me 3 Emperors, I might send you a replacement transmission for your imperfect fit.[][][][][][]

SUCH A DEAL!!! (And they say copier salesmen aren't generous in their offers???)

 

[ed4copies]

Interesting that we want to debate what is "high end"? That is, of course, OK with me. HOWEVER, if you purchase one of MY hand-made writing instruments at ANY price level, you will receive a product of which I can be PROUD!!!

IF I THINK there's a good chance (over 2%) that it will "Break", I won't be selling it. That is the short version of why I sell VERY FEW Perfect fits. I have not STOPPED selling it, but if it comes up with a 20% failure rate, my overall will still be under 2%, based on the number of cigars that I sell. I can not recall EVER having one come back (except 10K gold, for a plating issue).

BUT that's just me. IF you ARE willing to take that risk - that's YOUR choice!

 

[thewishman]

I, too, don't care much for the Perfect Fit. It works well and I love the convertible feature, but the loose feeling of the transmission makes it feel cheap.

Chris

 

[Mudder]

Originally posted by ed4copies

HOWEVER, if you purchase one of MY hand-made writing instruments at ANY price level, you will receive a product of which I can be PROUD!!!

I had a real smart aleck comment but I'll keep it to myself [}]

Originally posted by ed4copies

IF I THINK there's a good chance (over 2%) that it will "Break", I won't be selling it. That is the short version of why I sell VERY FEW Perfect fits. I have not STOPPED selling it, but if it comes up with a 20% failure rate, my overall will still be under 2%, based on the number of cigars that I sell. I can not recall EVER having one come back (except 10K gold, for a plating issue).

I'm not sure if I am following your logic here Ed so I have a few questions.

Have you ever had a perfect fit break?
Have you sold more than 25 of them? 50? 100?

Perhaps I am reading too much into what you posted but you give me the impression that the perfect fit kit has a high failure rate but you still sell it?

Please help me to understand.








I hope that Cav or anybody for that matter will post pictures if the failed parts so that I can get a better understanding.

You guys are starting to make me a little nervous. The perfect fit is one of my best sellers and I sure don't want to have to drop them.

 

[wdcav1952]

Scott, I will compare the transmission to a new one when I get home. If there is anything to show, I will take a photo.

 

[ed4copies]

To minimize confusion, Scott (Mudder) and I discussed this on the phone.

To everyone else, I have probably sold 50 perfect fits in the last two years. In that same time frame I have sold 10 times as many cigar pens. NO, none of the perfect fits have actually returned "not working". But two customers have said they could not get the top off without "forcing" it. It was "free spinning" in the counterclockwise direction.

NOT a failure, I admit, but the customer did NOT perceive it as a FEATURE, either.

So, I will continue to sell a very minimal number to people who like the shape. IF there is a newer version introduced with different "guts", I would be in the front of the line to try it.

 

[wdcav1952]

Scott, there is nothing really to photograph. Something gave way inside the transmission, and the center plunger, for lack of a better word no longer moves as you twist the transmission.

 

[opie]

Hi there, I found the following problems with the PF over time: did not work well when the pencil inserts was put in, the two barrels wobbled after some time, and the clip is weak and soft (I gave my friend at work one and he lost his clip within two months). Great looking pen though.

 

[jackrichington]

Really enjoyed this discussion..this is why I come to this site..I like the PP..nice size, nice design..gotta little style...but I too find the thing wimpy, or flexy..not crisp..not crisp always makes me leery...Same way with click pens..smooshy..hmmm