Penn State, Craft Supplies, Dayacom, Woodcraft? Which are the best?

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jhaworth

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I've only been turning pens for about two years and have used mostly Penn state products. Good quality kits, especially the high end products like the Majestics and Broadwell series. Just curious, are there better kits out there? I'm looking at Woodcraft and Craft supplies. Craft offers pretty good discounts when you order in bulk. Also, there are the Dayacom kits that are pretty expensive. Are they worth the price? Keeping my options open and looking for input.
 
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hewunch

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I've only been turning pens for about two years and have used mostly Penn state products. Good quality kits, especially the high end products like the Majestics and Broadwell series. Just curious, are there better kits out there? I'm looking at Woodcraft and Craft supplies. Craft offers pretty good discounts when you order in bulk. Also, there are the Dayacom kits that are pretty expensive. Are they worth the price? Keeping my options open and looking for input.

Pretty certain that the Majestics and Broadwells are Dayacom's too.
 

SCR0LL3R

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I haven't been turning for very long but most of the kits I have used are Berea brand. Many are sold by http://www.beartoothwoods.com or http://exoticblanks.com (and http://penblanks.ca here in Canada) as well as a few other forum vendors.. I think just about everybody will agree that Berea kits are good. Dayacom kits seem to have a very good rep around here as well but I haven't used any personally.

The only Craft Supplies kits that I have used are Jr Gent II's which seem fine but I really haven't put them through much use yet

The only kits I personally have had issue with so far are Penn State slimlines which I have had a lot of trouble with fitment... I can't get the clips onto the finial on a lot of them because the plating on the finial is thick and chunky.
 
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bnoles

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I have gotten away from the big supply houses and have been using many of the individuals from this forum as well as some of the smaller vendors out on the net. High quality kits, friendlier and faster service and once in a while even a better price :) These folks really appreciate your business more and show it in many ways that the supply houses do not.
 

SCR0LL3R

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Keith:
The Craft Supply kits (Jr. gents, et al) are Dayacom .

I thought they might be so I looked on Dayacom's site before commenting so as to not look stupid :wink: but I didn't see them there. I did see Sedonas on Dayacom's site just now which I also make. I assume then that Barons are also Dayacom?

I also see that both Dayacom and Berea sell the Cigar and Churchill (using the same name), as well as others I'm sure.

SOOO... I guess I don't entirely know who makes the kits I am building. I bought most of them from penblanks.ca and when I asked them they said almost every kit they sell is Berea.
 

RussFromNH

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I have gotten away from the big supply houses and have been using many of the individuals from this forum as well as some of the smaller vendors out on the net. High quality kits, friendlier and faster service and once in a while even a better price :) These folks really appreciate your business more and show it in many ways that the supply houses do not.

Is there a single forum that would have a lof of these listed?
 

ed4copies

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The original sedona is a Berea product, as is the Baron, which is sold as the Navigator at Woodcraft.

There is MUCH confusion about names, since many manufacturers call their pens "sierras" (and other names). But, if I tried to give you specific information, some people complain I am advertising--so PM me if you want to know more--I can still answer questions!!

I have purchased pen kits for nearly 20 years now.

(This invitation is open to all)
 

sbell111

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Keith:
The Craft Supply kits (Jr. gents, et al) are Dayacom .

As I understand it, their 'standard' line of kits are (at least mostly) Dayacom kits. I don't think that any of their Apprentice kits are made by Dayacom. (Not that there's anything necessarily wrong with that.)
 

sbell111

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But, if I tried to give you specific information, some people complain I am advertising--so PM me if you want to know more--I can still answer questions!!
It seems like this statement that you often drop into your posts is more of an advertisement than how you previously handled it, not that I care.
 

bnoles

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I have gotten away from the big supply houses and have been using many of the individuals from this forum as well as some of the smaller vendors out on the net. High quality kits, friendlier and faster service and once in a while even a better price :) These folks really appreciate your business more and show it in many ways that the supply houses do not.

Is there a single forum that would have a lof of these listed?

Hi Russ,

Spend a little time in the classifieds of IAP for some great pickings of folks to do business and you can also Google "Pen Making Supplies" for a great many more. I am not aware of a compiled list anywhere that I know of.
 

SCR0LL3R

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I wish they would give them different names so I know who I am buying from. I am sure there are minor differences both in quality and in the fine details.
 

sbell111

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SOME of the differences are more than minor.

I could NOT agree with you MORE!!!!

I believe that the quality gap between the big suppliers and the 'knock-offs' has greatly reduced over the last few years. I do see occasional quality issues with these suppliers, but I've also gotten duds from CSUSA, et al.
 
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dabeeler

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I buy different stuff from different folks, however I buy my kits from Arizona Sillhouette which are Berea kits. I usually buy off of the weekly special to take advantage of the max quantity price for just a few kits. Started with Berea and have continued because that is what I have accumlated bushings for.
 

beck3906

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But, if I tried to give you specific information, some people complain I am advertising--so PM me if you want to know more--I can still answer questions!!
It seems like this statement that you often drop into your posts is more of an advertisement than how you previously handled it, not that I care.

If you don't care, then why post?
 

OKLAHOMAN

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Woodlvr

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I would contact our vendors by pm or their website and they will tell you the truth about who makes their kits, and they support this wonderful free forum that we have to learn from some of the masters in pen turning and woodworking. JMHO.
 

sbell111

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But, if I tried to give you specific information, some people complain I am advertising--so PM me if you want to know more--I can still answer questions!!
It seems like this statement that you often drop into your posts is more of an advertisement than how you previously handled it, not that I care.

If you don't care, then why post?
I don't care if he adverts his business. The way he is passively aggressively doing it is irritating, however.
 
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PenMan1

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Keith:
The Craft Supply kits (Jr. gents, et al) are Dayacom .

I thought they might be so I looked on Dayacom's site before commenting so as to not look stupid :wink: but I didn't see them there.

SOOO... I guess I don't entirely know who makes the kits I am building. I bought most of them from penblanks.ca and when I asked them they said almost every kit they sell is Berea.

We STILL DON'T REALLY KNOW! Berea used to swear that they make all of their components. I don't take this as "Gospel" as most Berea "moving parts" have the same tool and die marks as Dayacom components.

I could prove in a court of law that Dayacom makes nothing. All components for Dayacom are produced by other "subcontractors" and simply bagged and shipped by Dayacom.

EVER WONDER "Why so many damned small plastic bags?". That is because that is the way the subcontractors ship to the packaging company.

Do you STILL think that "Rhodium" finish plating has any metal in it?
 
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SCR0LL3R

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I haven't used any rhodium/platinum yet... Initially because I was doing cheaper kits but now it's because I don't know what the hell the plating really is. I am sure we get ripped off with some of the supposed gold ti / black ti finishes as well. Why is it that typically we pay more for titanium finishes vs 24k gold but when you look at Dayacom's brand name kits, they charge much more for 22k gold than black titanium?

How come I have two supposed 24k kits from different manufacturers that are miles apart in actual color?

At least with chrome, you know what you are getting. (Am I assuming too much here?)

I suppose as in the case of Dayacom, I wouldn't much care who they subcontract to, as long as they were to maintain consistent quality control and be honest about the metals being used. Given the country of origin though, the chances of that happening are quite slim I'm sure.
 

ed4copies

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But, if I tried to give you specific information, some people complain I am advertising--so PM me if you want to know more--I can still answer questions!!
It seems like this statement that you often drop into your posts is more of an advertisement than how you previously handled it, not that I care.

If you don't care, then why post?
I don't care if he adverts his business. The way he is passively aggressively doing it is irritating, however.

Therein lies the problem. From March 2005 to December 2008 I could give my opinion and "share" my experience and never had a complaint.

When Exotics started, I never heard anyone complain as we assembled a group of IAP members' products and did what the forum had requested---sold them all in one place.

Then there developed a contingent who started complaining that I advertised too much (it WAS several times a month), so I went to no more than twice a month. The complaining did not stop and new competition joined the forum, advertising extensively.

So, now we try to "live and let live". No matter WHAT I say, someone objects. So, the bottom line is--I will say what I feel is right---to those who are offended---don't read my posts.

There is an "ignore" feature that will make me invisible to you. Try it--you will like it.

To those who continue to read what I write, you will learn about the best products I can find to assist you---the penmaker--in making and selling the best products available. You will also gain knowledge about such things as nibs (I questioned IPG) and platings (I questioned Rhodium), who knows what else you might learn??

Thanks for letting me vent. Back to my normal attempts at humor and education.

I apologize for taking this thread somewhat off course. However to keep it from getting worse, this is the last post I will make in this thread.

Those who have requested further info in PM, I will be writing a fairly long article and send it to you. So, please be somewhat patient. I feel a detailed answer is the only way to be fully accurate.
 

jedgerton

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Ed,

I know you have a business and I also know you have a wealth of experience. I appreciate your comments and think IAP is better for them. I also feel this way about the other IAP vendors. In it's essence, this site's value comes from the exchange of ideas and information among those who are informed and those who desire to learn. Let's not put up barriers to that process.

John
 
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PenMan1

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Being silent has never been my "long suit", so I am not going to change, now!

Ed, I find your comments very informative and valuable (in fact, one single conversation we once had helped me "move the bar" WAY UP in terms of marketing and even making pens that don't fail.

Smitty, I always find your comments informative as well, and never consider those "advertising" either. I fact, I had "dismissed" the LE Roi pen sometime ago, and feel that now I REALLY SHOULD GIVE IT SOME MORE ATTENTION.

Mike, your comments are always helpful too, and I never consider these "advertising" either.

IN FACT, I wish MORE VENDORS would take an active roll in posting here.

Now, if any of you every said "MY Jr. Gent (etc) is better than CUSAs (or XYZs)", I'd be the first to "call you" on it. But I have never seen that occur here!

Respectfully submitted!
 

Woodlvr

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Thanks Andy, I wanted to say something to that effect. In the 6 short years that I have been a member product knowledge and product have improved 10,000 %. If I need help any vendor I talk to always tried to help with my problem, "no matter how blonde of a moment that I am having".
 

sbell111

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Ed,

I know you have a business and I also know you have a wealth of experience. I appreciate your comments and think IAP is better for them. I also feel this way about the other IAP vendors. In it's essence, this site's value comes from the exchange of ideas and information among those who are informed and those who desire to learn. Let's not put up barriers to that process.

John
I completely agree with this post. I actually miss Ed's discussion of actual topics. Lately, it feels like he is not doing that, however. Instead he is merely stating that he would not discuss the topic because some would take it to be advertising, thereby letting all know that he has the goods to sell, but not adding to the thread's actual topic. By not discussing the actual topic's issue in this manner, he is dissing his competition by inferring that he is the only correct opinion out there while not even giving his opinion. That's what gets my goat.
 

jhaworth

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Please stop the bickering and answer the question

The original post asked if if there were any notable differences in the quality of pen kits that are available. Someone who hopefully has worked with different brands and has found notable differences between manufacturers. Instead, all we get is complaining about advertisement, etc. If you've worked with different brands and feel strongly about the quality of such, please give me your opinion. If you're here to advertise, complain, or keep your comments a secret. Why are you wasting my time?
I'm looking at purchasing many pen kits. I want the best quality. I just want to know which kits I should buy. I have only worked with the PSI kits and wonder if I should be using another brand.
 

PenMan1

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The Berea sets and Dayacom kits appear to be the same quality and many times both appear to be made EXACTLY the same.

Where the quality difference seems to be most noticeable is with platings offered. Because of past plating issues, I only offer the better platings black TI, gold TI, chrome and rhodium. (and only Berea and Dayacom).

The 10k, 24k, satin finishes, sterling, etc. just don't meet my expectations.

Additionally, I try to use only the sets made in Tiwian. The products that I have used from China have had some serious issues- plating AND mechanical.

I hope this helps.
 

JohnU

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[/QUOTE] By not discussing the actual topic's issue in this manner, he is dissing his competition by inferring that he is the only correct opinion out there while not even giving his opinion. That's what gets my goat.[/QUOTE]

I don't think he meant that at all. In the past there were some pretty heated posts about special treatment and advertising. I thought it was all BS like many here but some seen it another way. It raised some pretty heated posts and hurt the site for some. I think Ed was just being up front about why he wasn't posting his opinion. JMHO

As to the original post ... Ive found that supporting the IAP vendors has worked in getting quality supplies. They are turners and members here so they see and hear what works for them and us and it isn't just a sale. It has been a friendship in the making. I see questions asked and answered, opinions on kits and platings, and questions on who would be interested in purchases befor the orders. I like it and support as many here as I can.

As for me, I like the jr gents II and jr statesman kits. I usually get the Rhodium. I think they have a nice classy look with out being too flashy. I've never had a bad one.
 
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jhaworth

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Thanks John! I have many Majestics and Majestic Jrs in my library. Thought maybe I would try some others to espand my library. If I do, I will need the bushings, etc to do this. Wasn't sure if it was worth the investment. I like the look of the statesman (jr) and may go that rout. Thanks for your input.
 

sbell111

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As I mentioned upthread, I have seen some issues with CSUSA kits, as I have with the 'clone' kits (in about the same percentage). The CSUSA problems that come to mind have been bad (irregular) plating on black Ti Jr Gent IIs, damaged (squished) tubes, missing parts and incorrect items shipped.

Again, these are not frequent issues and are similar in problem (and frequency) that we've had with other suppliers.
 

Mapster

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As far as kits, in my opinion you can't go wrong with purchasing from any small scale businesses. For example, I have purchased from Arizona Silhouette, Exotic Blanks, Woodnwhimsies, and Bear Tooth Woods and they have all been very good to me. The kits seem to be about the same quality, and it mainly depends on the finish you buy. I too used to only make majestics and Majestic Jr.s, but have come to find that the accents on the Statesman series are much more clean and crisp. If you are looking for the fancy look, but not over the top, you would be hard pressed to beat the Jr gents, especially black titanium and rhodium. The quality is there, the kit looks great, and the finish holds up. Plus you only need to buy bushings because you have the drill bits for those kits.
 

PenMan1

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As I mentioned upthread, I have seen some issues with CSUSA kits, as I have with the 'clone' kits (in about the same percentage). The CSUSA problems that come to mind have been bad (irregular) plating on black Ti Jr Gent IIs, damaged (squished) tubes, missing parts and incorrect items shipped.

Again, these are not frequent issues and are similar in problem (and frequency) that we've had with other suppliers.

These problems were likely about the time CSUSA was "dabbling" with the Chinese clones. I have not seen a single issue since the change back to the Dayacom sets.

There may be some good Chinese made "clones", and I just haven't found thiem. My short-lived experience with those was awful!
 

sbell111

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As I mentioned upthread, I have seen some issues with CSUSA kits, as I have with the 'clone' kits (in about the same percentage). The CSUSA problems that come to mind have been bad (irregular) plating on black Ti Jr Gent IIs, damaged (squished) tubes, missing parts and incorrect items shipped.

Again, these are not frequent issues and are similar in problem (and frequency) that we've had with other suppliers.

These problems were likely about the time CSUSA was "dabbling" with the Chinese clones. I have not seen a single issue since the change back to the Dayacom sets.

There may be some good Chinese made "clones", and I just haven't found thiem. My short-lived experience with those was awful!

As far as I am aware, CSUSA's JGII's have always been dayacom sets. Their JGI's, of course, are not.
 

Smitty37

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I wouldn't bet on it

I've only been turning pens for about two years and have used mostly Penn state products. Good quality kits, especially the high end products like the Majestics and Broadwell series. Just curious, are there better kits out there? I'm looking at Woodcraft and Craft supplies. Craft offers pretty good discounts when you order in bulk. Also, there are the Dayacom kits that are pretty expensive. Are they worth the price? Keeping my options open and looking for input.

Pretty certain that the Majestics and Broadwells are Dayacom's too.

Not too long ago Dayacom told me they were not dealing with PSI. Also I've been in touch with a company called Mainmold Technology Co. Ltd, also a Taiwanese company, and when I asked them where in the USA I could buy their kits to check the quality....their response was PSI.
 

Smitty37

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Keith:
The Craft Supply kits (Jr. gents, et al) are Dayacom .

As I understand it, their 'standard' line of kits are (at least mostly) Dayacom kits. I don't think that any of their Apprentice kits are made by Dayacom. (Not that there's anything necessarily wrong with that.)
I agree, their apprentice line kits that I've seen are chinese made. I wouldn't take bets that they have all their eggs in one basket with the standard kits either although that's just a gut feel since they've often said that certain kits are made by Dayacom.
 

timberbits

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Keith:
The Craft Supply kits (Jr. gents, et al) are Dayacom .

As I understand it, their 'standard' line of kits are (at least mostly) Dayacom kits. I don't think that any of their Apprentice kits are made by Dayacom. (Not that there's anything necessarily wrong with that.)
I agree, their apprentice line kits that I've seen are chinese made. I wouldn't take bets that they have all their eggs in one basket with the standard kits either although that's just a gut feel since they've often said that certain kits are made by Dayacom.

I am 90% sure that all the apprentice range comes from Rizheng. I was told this was the case from a very reliable source.

It seems that Rizheng is the main supplier of pen kits out of Main Land China. They seem to be supplying the slimlines to Craft Supplies, Woodturnings, PSI and quite a few others. Not to mention quite a few other kits as well.

Rizheng is trying to crack into the higher end pen kits..... we will see how well that goes. The quality of slimlines seems to be improving as is their selection of platings.

It was PSI who got Rizheng into pen kits quite a few years ago.

Dayacom said they stop supplying PSI with pen kits quite a few years ago.
 
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PenMan1

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David:
I feel certain that you are correct about Apprentice being Rizheng. I quit buying this line years ago as I was ashamed to even give these away.

Additionally, I don't know how true the story may be, but I was told that about 2 years ago, that Rizheng took a stab at the Artisan line and failed. Therefore, The Artisan line went back to Dayacom.
 
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