Pen platings

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As pen makers we talk a lot about about pen platings. I'm wondering how much the customer thinks about it. When I give/sell a pen they ask what kind if wood and how did you do that? Nobody asks," is that chrome or rhodium." The most expensive pen I sold is $125 my next goal is $200. I use good platings. I'm just wondering if we aren't over thinking the plating issue a bit.
Opinions?
 
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wolftat

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I had some chrome and some platinum slims get mixed together, I sold them all as chrome and noone could tell the difference. I wouldn't want to mix up 24kt and goldTN though, the difference will be found out in a couple of months.
 

broitblat

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I agree that the customer doesn't often ask about plating, but rhodium or platinum in the description, vs chrome, for example, *may* make an impression on some potential buyers considering an "expensive" pen. I don't know what kind of impression "Gold Titanium" makes, however, and I tend to purchase kit more based on durability than plating, per se.

I don't know home many customers think about durability, but they'll notice if a plating is not very durable.

So, maybe you're right and we should just sell the pens as gold colored, silver colored, and grey (whatever you want to call Black Ti) colored...

-Barry
 

Roos85

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I think to each his own, some customers may care and what to know what the material is. They might want to estimate the durability of the material. It all depends on the customer.
 

pianomanpj

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I always make sure my customers know what the plating is of the pens. Most people have something or other in chrome, but not many have something in rhodium or platinum. (You can buy chrome-plated pens anywhere!) And considering those metals are very expensive, I would think the customers would appreciate the cost a bit more.
 

Smitty37

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Hmmmmm....

I always make sure my customers know what the plating is of the pens. Most people have something or other in chrome, but not many have something in rhodium or platinum. (You can buy chrome-plated pens anywhere!) And considering those metals are very expensive, I would think the customers would appreciate the cost a bit more.
Actually while rhodium and platinum are more expensive, whether they are "better" than chrome is awfully iffy, it isn't obvious from the properties that they will wear better.

Also, "platinum" platings are not always platinum at all and might not even contain platinum. I found that what one manufacturer called platinum had palladium and was white gold which would wear no better than 14 kt gold.
 

mrcook4570

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Most of my customers do not care what it is, just as long it is a color they like AND that it will last. However, when I present them with two very similar pens (same material but one chrome and one rhodium) they will often ask why I have one marked higher than the other. Some will buy the rhodium because of its perceived value, others go with the chrome because it is more economical.
 

Texatdurango

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As pen makers we talk a lot about about pen platings. I'm wondering how much the customer thinks about it. When I give/sell a pen they ask what kind if wood and how did you do that? Nobody asks," is that chrome or rhodium." The most expensive pen I sold is $125 my next goal is $200. I use good platings. I'm just wondering if we aren't over thinking the plating issue a bit.
Opinions?
Well I think some conversations here do go overboard now and then debating platings especially when a couple vendors are involved. Go figure! :eek:

But, I do believe in letting customers know whether a pen is rhodium or nickel or chrome plated. I don't profess to know which is better, longer lasting or more valuable BUT..... I think the average customer would equate chrome with a car bumper and rhodium with jewelry so it's clear to me, I use rhodium plating over chrome when given a choice.

As far as gold colored titanium finish, it is my understanding that a titanium finish is probably the most durable of anything we can choose from so if given a choice other than rhodium I will select it and no other gold plating.

Some of my cheaper plated first pens from early 2007 show a good bit of wear even when not being used that much and the gold colored titanium finished pen I gave my wife about that same time looks as good as new even though it has been in her purses everyday since!
 

ed4copies

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As one who has been a "salesman" for the past 35+ years, I have learned you can never be "over-educated" on your product. So, I prefer to KNOW I am selling a product that has less than half of one percent of rhodium. Now, if YOU want to call that "rhodium-plated", more power to you.

I don't.

If you run into an educated buyer who knows the cost of rhodium and you are selling a pen for $100, claiming it to be rhodium plated, he will, most probably, suspect you know very little about your product. I prefer not to put myself in that position.

You may do as you wish.
 

Smitty37

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I agree

As one who has been a "salesman" for the past 35+ years, I have learned you can never be "over-educated" on your product. So, I prefer to KNOW I am selling a product that has less than half of one percent of rhodium. Now, if YOU want to call that "rhodium-plated", more power to you.

I don't.

If you run into an educated buyer who knows the cost of rhodium and you are selling a pen for $100, claiming it to be rhodium plated, he will, most probably, suspect you know very little about your product. I prefer not to put myself in that position.

You may do as you wish.
I agree but the one tested for rhodium was just one manufacturer and I don't even know who that was. I think I'll ask my supplier what their "rhodium" plating amounts to.

I do know that platinum from my usual source has no platinum at all in it. It's a nice 14.4 kt white gold plating with palladium -- a nice plating but not what it is named.
 

ed4copies

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The most surprising one to me was the Imperial that showed less than .5% (that's one HALF of one percent) rhodium.
 

ed4copies

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I have not asked to have the Chrome platings tested, for any kit, from any source.

The cost of the kit seems completely consistent with the cost of chromium, to me.
 

SCR0LL3R

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Have any of you guys had any issues with rhodium or platinum plated pens wearing? Are there any dissatisfied customers?
 

OKLAHOMAN

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I've been selling them for a number of years and have yet to have a customer complain about wear of Rhodium or Titanium. When I first started I made the mistake of using 10K,24K, chrome, brushed chrome and have had all 4 returned because of ware and in the case of the chrome peeling.
 
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I did learn a while ago that if it isn't TI gold don't use it. Anything brushed isn't going to last and for the most part black chrome is black paint. I don't understand why the more expensive 2 tone kits use 24 kt gold is it perhaps because they don't expect them to be used? I have learned that people smile when you tell them the hardware is titanium. I haven't made up my mind yet, but I wonder if rhodium is worth the extra cost. I would use it on high end pens. Other than that I'm not sure.
 

glycerine

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For those of you that think the price of "rhodium plated" kits should rise or fall just because the cost of rhodium rises or falls, please do some research on futures contracts...

To answer the original question as to whether the customer cares, I think there are a few that care about the actual types of platings, but most don't know enough to know the difference anyway. To them it's "silver" and "gold"...
 

cwolfs69

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Just curious here, no one has mentioned the "gun metal" pen kits in the entire discussion. i tend to sell more of those than any other particular plating. does anyone know about these kits and their wear-ability.
i love this discussion, i am learning here. i have had very, very few customers ask about the plating on my pens.
 

SCR0LL3R

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I've been selling them for a number of years and have yet to have a customer complain about wear of Rhodium or Titanium. When I first started I made the mistake of using 10K,24K, chrome, brushed chrome and have had all 4 returned because of ware and in the case of the chrome peeling.

If you can't trust regular chrome, I don't know what I would trust. I hope it was just a fluke... Maybe a bad batch or somebody cheapened on the plating. This isn't something that happens often is it?

How bad is the wearing of satin chrome? I love the satin chrome Elegant Sierras. I buy the ones that have the satin chrome right where your fingers hold the pen too. :frown:
 

Smitty37

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Hmmmm

I did learn a while ago that if it isn't TI gold don't use it. Anything brushed isn't going to last and for the most part black chrome is black paint. I don't understand why the more expensive 2 tone kits use 24 kt gold is it perhaps because they don't expect them to be used? I have learned that people smile when you tell them the hardware is titanium. I haven't made up my mind yet, but I wonder if rhodium is worth the extra cost. I would use it on high end pens. Other than that I'm not sure.

Black Chrome is definately NOT black paint. You might be confusing it with Black Enamel which looks almost like it.
 

Smitty37

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Unlucky

I've been selling them for a number of years and have yet to have a customer complain about wear of Rhodium or Titanium. When I first started I made the mistake of using 10K,24K, chrome, brushed chrome and have had all 4 returned because of ware and in the case of the chrome peeling.

You must have gotten unlucky in the case of Chrome... the properties of chrome should produce a finish that wears at least as well as rhodium. Chrome is about the same hardness as rhodium (I think chrome is marginally harder) and is often used in applications when wear is a factor.
 

joefyffe

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oops!

GOD BLESS THE CHINESE!!!:mad::mad::mad:

quote=Smitty37;1311252]
As one who has been a "salesman" for the past 35+ years, I have learned you can never be "over-educated" on your product. So, I prefer to KNOW I am selling a product that has less than half of one percent of rhodium. Now, if YOU want to call that "rhodium-plated", more power to you.

I don't.

If you run into an educated buyer who knows the cost of rhodium and you are selling a pen for $100, claiming it to be rhodium plated, he will, most probably, suspect you know very little about your product. I prefer not to put myself in that position.

You may do as you wish.
I agree but the one tested for rhodium was just one manufacturer and I don't even know who that was. I think I'll ask my supplier what their "rhodium" plating amounts to.

I do know that platinum from my usual source has no platinum at all in it. It's a nice 14.4 kt white gold plating with palladium -- a nice plating but not what it is named.[/quote]
 

OKLAHOMAN

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When you are selling to a crowd of folks paying $20-$50 for pens Chrome, Gun Metal,Satin Chrome, 24 and 10K gold is fine, but if your selling $200-$1,000 pens, that customer wants justification for spending big bucks and I for one have a very hard time telling the customer "Sir/Madam this pen uses the finest "chrome plating" just like the $5 pens at Staples or your fathers 65 Plymouth's Bumper, or we use 10K and 24K gold and because my supplier won't guarantee the wear I won't either. In my case I'm selling usable jewelry and with my supplier giving me a lifetime guarantee as to wear on Rhodium the choice is easy.
Will some Chrome platings wear as well?....... might...... but in the real selling world they will not sell as well, the 10K and 24K certainly will not wear as well as the titaniums.
Nothing wrong with any of the platings mentioned as they all are used but are used for different price points as they should be.
 
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Smitty37

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well

If there was no market for it - they wouldn't do it.
GOD BLESS THE CHINESE!!!:mad::mad::mad:

quote=Smitty37;1311252]
As one who has been a "salesman" for the past 35+ years, I have learned you can never be "over-educated" on your product. So, I prefer to KNOW I am selling a product that has less than half of one percent of rhodium. Now, if YOU want to call that "rhodium-plated", more power to you.

I don't.

If you run into an educated buyer who knows the cost of rhodium and you are selling a pen for $100, claiming it to be rhodium plated, he will, most probably, suspect you know very little about your product. I prefer not to put myself in that position.

You may do as you wish.
I agree but the one tested for rhodium was just one manufacturer and I don't even know who that was. I think I'll ask my supplier what their "rhodium" plating amounts to.

I do know that platinum from my usual source has no platinum at all in it. It's a nice 14.4 kt white gold plating with palladium -- a nice plating but not what it is named.
[/quote]
 

Texatdurango

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As one who has been a "salesman" for the past 35+ years, I have learned you can never be "over-educated" on your product. So, I prefer to KNOW I am selling a product that has less than half of one percent of rhodium. Now, if YOU want to call that "rhodium-plated", more power to you.

I don't.

If you run into an educated buyer who knows the cost of rhodium and you are selling a pen for $100, claiming it to be rhodium plated, he will, most probably, suspect you know very little about your product. I prefer not to put myself in that position.

You may do as you wish.

So hypothetically speaking, if you happen to purchase some kits from Craft Supply to resell and they are sold as rhodium plated do you white out the rhodium plated part and pencil in "shiny white metal" ? Or does the rhodium plating in the Craft Supply kits contain enough rhodium to qualify as real rhodium to satisfy an educated buyer should the need arise?
 

Tage

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I agree that the customer doesn't often ask about plating, but rhodium or platinum in the description, vs chrome, for example, *may* make an impression on some potential buyers considering an "expensive" pen. I don't know what kind of impression "Gold Titanium" makes, however, and I tend to purchase kit more based on durability than plating, per se.

I don't know home many customers think about durability, but they'll notice if a plating is not very durable.

So, maybe you're right and we should just sell the pens as gold colored, silver colored, and grey (whatever you want to call Black Ti) colored...

-Barry

I tend to agree with this statement. My son and I have sold mostly trimline and Gatsby pens, and for that market, the general response is of the "Ooh....Shiny!" variety, not so much concerned with durability. I think customers assume durability. I have however, seen, a couple of the 24kt gold Trimlines that have lived in women's pocketbooks for the last year, and they look like they've been through a cement mixer. We're planning on including a pen pouch to include with future sales. I think rhodium would price some people out of buying, but it's a selling point on higher end pens (of which we've only sold 2). Just my 2 cents.
 

ed4copies

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As one who has been a "salesman" for the past 35+ years, I have learned you can never be "over-educated" on your product. So, I prefer to KNOW I am selling a product that has less than half of one percent of rhodium. Now, if YOU want to call that "rhodium-plated", more power to you.

I don't.

If you run into an educated buyer who knows the cost of rhodium and you are selling a pen for $100, claiming it to be rhodium plated, he will, most probably, suspect you know very little about your product. I prefer not to put myself in that position.

You may do as you wish.

So hypothetically speaking, if you happen to purchase some kits from Craft Supply to resell and they are sold as rhodium plated do you white out the rhodium plated part and pencil in "shiny white metal" ? Or does the rhodium plating in the Craft Supply kits contain enough rhodium to qualify as real rhodium to satisfy an educated buyer should the need arise?

I have often said, NEVER say NEVER, but this is an exception!

When I sold at shows, I NEVER showed a prospective customer a KIT!!!
So, the education they got on the plating was all verbal--I did not have printed descriptions, since I sometimes doubted the information I had been provided by the "manufacturer". My "selling strategy" did not rely on telling the customer what the makeup was, but rather on emphasizing the "lifetime repair" that I would provide for "normal use".

When we now sell component sets to penmakers, we have used the description from our supplier (CSUSA), since there are SOME people who try to imply that we are having those made by a "cut rate" supplier, rather than CSUSA (where we actually purchase the kits so labelled). So, we use their terminology to avoid confusion.

As to the original question, I can say I have sold thousands of pens at the retail level (shows). I have had a couple 10Kt gold returned for wear. That is the ONLY case I can remember where wear was a factor. (I have had MORE returned, complaining that the rollerball was faulty because the customer LOST the SPRING).

But, I also purchased ALL my "non-slimlines" from Berea or CSUSA--or their resellers. So, I knew what I was buying.

The market has changed, many more sources and many more levels of quality are available now.
 

Smitty37

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Hmmmmm

When you are selling to a crowd of folks paying $20-$50 for pens Chrome, Gun Metal,Satin Chrome, 24 and 10K gold is fine, but if your selling $200-$1,000 pens, that customer wants justification for spending big bucks and I for one have a very hard time telling the customer "Sir/Madam this pen uses the finest "chrome plating" just like the $5 pens at Staples or your fathers 65 Plymouth's Bumper, or we use 10K and 24K gold and because my supplier won't guarantee the wear I won't either. In my case I'm selling usable jewelry and with my supplier giving me a lifetime guarantee as to wear on Rhodium the choice is easy.
Will some Chrome platings wear as well?....... might...... but in the real selling world they will not sell as well, the 10K and 24K certainly will not wear as well as the titaniums.
Nothing wrong with any of the platings mentioned as they all are used but are used for different price points as they should be.
Well if they've ever checked the price of having that 65 plymoth bumper rechromed ----- rhodium might not sound as impressive.:biggrin: Actually it was a 65 Pontiac Bonneville that I check on --- about 20 years ago and I was impressed.
 
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glycerine

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As one who has been a "salesman" for the past 35+ years, I have learned you can never be "over-educated" on your product. So, I prefer to KNOW I am selling a product that has less than half of one percent of rhodium. Now, if YOU want to call that "rhodium-plated", more power to you.

I don't.

If you run into an educated buyer who knows the cost of rhodium and you are selling a pen for $100, claiming it to be rhodium plated, he will, most probably, suspect you know very little about your product. I prefer not to put myself in that position.

You may do as you wish.

So hypothetically speaking, if you happen to purchase some kits from Craft Supply to resell and they are sold as rhodium plated do you white out the rhodium plated part and pencil in "shiny white metal" ? Or does the rhodium plating in the Craft Supply kits contain enough rhodium to qualify as real rhodium to satisfy an educated buyer should the need arise?

I have often said, NEVER say NEVER, but this is an exception!

When I sold at shows, I NEVER showed a prospective customer a KIT!!!
So, the education they got on the plating was all verbal--I did not have printed descriptions, since I sometimes doubted the information I had been provided by the "manufacturer". My "selling strategy" did not rely on telling the customer what the makeup was, but rather on emphasizing the "lifetime repair" that I would provide for "normal use".

When we now sell component sets to penmakers, we have used the description from our supplier (CSUSA), since there are SOME people who try to imply that we are having those made by a "cut rate" supplier, rather than CSUSA (where we actually purchase the kits so labelled). So, we use their terminology to avoid confusion.

As to the original question, I can say I have sold thousands of pens at the retail level (shows). I have had a couple 10Kt gold returned for wear. That is the ONLY case I can remember where wear was a factor. (I have had MORE returned, complaining that the rollerball was faulty because the customer LOST the SPRING).

But, I also purchased ALL my "non-slimlines" from Berea or CSUSA--or their resellers. So, I knew what I was buying.

The market has changed, many more sources and many more levels of quality are available now.

I still don't understand why you would purchase something from a manufacturer if you didn't trust what they say about their product. If you owned a car dealership, would you put every car on a dyno to verify the horsepower? Or drive it for a few thousand miles to verify the MPG?
 

Texatdurango

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.....Well if they've ever checked the price of having that 65 plymoth bumper rechromed ----- rhodium might not sound as impressive.:biggrin: Actually it was a 65 Pontiac Bonneville that I check on --- about 20 years ago and I was impressed.
Unless of course they took their bumper out and got bids to have it rhodium plated! :biggrin:
 

Texatdurango

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......As one who has been a "salesman" for the past 35+ years, I have learned you can never be "over-educated" on your product. So, I prefer to KNOW I am selling a product that has less than half of one percent of rhodium. Now, if YOU want to call that "rhodium-plated", more power to you.

I don't. ..............


When we now sell component sets to penmakers, we have used the description from our supplier (CSUSA), since there are SOME people who try to imply that we are having those made by a "cut rate" supplier, rather than CSUSA (where we actually purchase the kits so labelled). So, we use their terminology to avoid confusion.

Since the kits I do have mostly come from Craft Supply, I'm curious then..... does Craft Supply make available the percentage of rhodium actually used in their platings or do you send the kits out for testing? I can't find any details on their website and I'd love to know the percentage myself since I plan on attending more pen shows where I am likely to encounter well educated customers familiar with the spot prices of rhodium.

It never hurts to be prepared!
 
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Well, for rhodium I personally would love to know who sells the real thing, if anyone. I like to be able to tell my customers exactly what the pen is made of, and also what will be the longest lasting. I personally don't like to make a pen unless it has the best plating for that model because I want to make something that will last.
 

Smitty37

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Use of Rhodium

The most common use of Rhodium in jewelry is over "white gold" or platinum. Typical white gold, because gold is yellow (white gold is usually about 58% or so gold - 14Kt) has a yellowish tinge, rhodium is often applied in a very thin coat to disquise that tinge. Rhodium happens to be a brighter metal than platinum and is often applied over platinum to make it brighter, again usually in a very thin coat. Sometimes it is applied over silver because it is more scratch resistant than silver. Silver is actually brighter. It does wear off sometimes very quickly because it is applied so thinly.

I think this: rhodium in pens is being used like rhodium in jewelry and is a thin coating applied over another bright "white" metal - wear would probably not even be noticeable to the naked eye if it were applied over chrome or possibly even bright nickel.

The amount of Rhodium present in the tested kits awhile back would tend to support that conclusion but it is an opinion...I make no claim of vast knowledge of metalergy.

The most durable finished are still....Black TN, Gold TN, followed by Rhodium, Chrome and Black Chrome.... there is little difference between Black and Gold TN and little difference between the other three. Call them Sunrise, Midnight and silver lining if you like pen platings don't seem to be covered by the rules governing jewelry.


My supplier called white gold (60% gold, 20% copper & 20% Palladium) Platinum because they thought that name had more Pazazz than white gold. But the wear qualities were about what you would expect from 14Kt gold and wouldn't have been much better if they were platinum (which is also a pretty soft metal).

Yes, we have a discussion about platings every few months and every few months I learn a little something about them that I didn't know before. In my opinion that makes it worth while.
 
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ghostrider

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Here's my $.02

I can understand wanting to deliever the best product possible to the customer, and therefore wanting to be better educated on the product.

Based on what I've read here, there are very few definites. Like Smitty finding the white gold that was supposed to be platinum, unless every kit line is tested, we pretty much have to go by what the manufacture/supplier claimes.

Maybe some consumers demand that the pen they buy labled as Rhodium have a certain minimum amount of Rhodium in it. If they are paying that much, then I can understand. However, I think the main motivating factor behind such discussions is often, "How to justify prices."

When buying kits, I'm more concerned with how well the plating wears.

I am still new at this, but I hear different opinions from different sources. One sources says "X" has the best transmissions, the other source claims it's "Y". Untill I recieve market feedback, I really don't know how one kit will perform over the other.

Do I price Gold Ti, more than 24K? (It costs me more). OTH, PSI's 24K line has a lifetime warranty, while their Gold Ti does not.

In the end, what I decided was, "Regardless of which kit I use, I will "make it right" no matter the kit." If that means a 24K pen comes back with worn plating, and I have to replace it with Gold Ti, so be it. I price my pens accordingly, knowing I may have to cover replacement costs in the future. In the end, regardless of how "good" the plating is, I'm hard pressed to believe that there is one that will never wear. I happens, and my goal is to minimize that. When I sell a pen (or anything really) to someone, I feel my personal service is more important than which plating.

I thought about giving people the option of "24k, or Gold Ti", but came to believe that for the most part, the main difference to the end line user is quality (in this case, wear). I doubt that there is enough gold in the 24K kits to be of any value if melted down, and I believe the same for the Rhodium, Titanium, etc...

I remember buying my first black ti cigar kit, and asking the salesman if the plating was actually titanium. The current price earlier this year was about $13 IIRC, and his response was along the line of, "It should be if it's going to cost that much, so I'm sure it is." He actually thought the whole part was titanium, not just the plating, so that's when I realized to not place much stock in valuing the plating.

PSI sells lots of neat stuff, and lots of people here use their kits. However, they don't get a bad rap for the quality of their kits, it's their service that people think about most.
 

Texatdurango

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......I think this: rhodium in pens is being used like rhodium in jewelry and is a thin coating applied over another bright "white" metal - wear would probably not even be noticeable to the naked eye if it were applied over chrome or possibly even bright nickel......

The most durable finished are still....Black TN, Gold TN, followed by Rhodium, Chrome and Black Chrome....
Probably the most insightful post in the thread so far! I don't know the difference in durability between black and gold titanium but agree 100% with the above comments and as I said earlier, I'll use gold titanuim or rhodium regardless of the percentages of precious metal used.

The reference to jewelry got me to thinking......... when we go into a jewelry store to buy a bracelet that is said to be sterling silver with rhodium overlay, I doubt any of us are concerned what percent rhodium is involved and doubt we would question the jeweler whether it's actually rhodium or not and can he prove the percentage of precious metal involved.

I think the whole percentage thing is irrelavant and to directly get back to our Canadian friends question...
.....I'm just wondering if we aren't over thinking the plating issue a bit.
Yes, I think we do over think it a bit but in this case, part of the discussion was informative so I'm pressing on and won't worry if my plating is .000321856% rhodium or .000321857%. :biggrin:
 
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