patriot pen ,,,stripes busted

[jeff3285]

well I finished one of these pens and it looked great,,,so someone else wanted one and I started making it and I didn't have any trouble with the blue stars,,,,but when I started on the stripes,,it busted right down to the tube, twice it happened,,i was using ca when I glued the brass tube in and turning it at a little over 1200 rpm,,,,kinda depressing when both blanks did it,,can anyone give me some advice in correcting this problem,,i actually think on my next try at it I might try knocking the square corners off with a belt sander,,i was using the small easy wood tool to get it round

 

[jttheclockman]

well I finished one of these pens and it looked great,,,so someone else wanted one and I started making it and I didn't have any trouble with the blue stars,,,,but when I started on the stripes,,it busted right down to the tube, twice it happened,,i was using ca when I glued the brass tube in and turning it at a little over 1200 rpm,,,,kinda depressing when both blanks did it,,can anyone give me some advice in correcting this problem,,i actually think on my next try at it I might try knocking the square corners off with a belt sander,,i was using the small easy wood tool to get it round

Maybe you can post a photo. You are on the right track when you say knocking off the sharp edges. I suggest you do that with a disc sander or even a belt sander. Light touches and make sure you hold onto it so it does not catch and fly. Any serious inlay kit or segmented kit is a must to do this with. Any unsupported vibration can shatter the glue hold. I am a believer in epoxy glue. I hate CA glue of any kind for gluing in tubes. CA becomes brittle and there is no give at all. With epoxy there is the complete fill around the tube factor and the entire blank inside is coated. Hit or miss with CA.

Hope you can salvage the blanks. Happy turning.

 

[efrulla]

I bought 4 sets of stars and stripes. Had the same issue. Stars turned well, turning the stripes is like trying to turn a piece of hard candy. I have blown up 2 of them already. On the second one I was taking very light cuts with a brand new radius carbide and it still shattered. How long ago did you order your blanks and from where. There may be a pattern here worth investigating.

 

[Rockytime]

1200 seems a little slow to me.

 

[jeff3285]

I just got the blank in the mail from penn state,,but epoxy is what im going to use on the next one,,,,

 

[jttheclockman]

I just got the blank in the mail from penn state,,but epoxy is what im going to use on the next one,,,,

Did you talk to PSI and see if there is a problem with the blanks being sent. Not sure who makes those blanks for them but if there is a problem I am sure they would like to know about it. Maybe you can get a refund or new blanks. They are not enemy #1 as many make them out to be at times

 

[Skie_M]

Make sure your lathe tools are VERY sharp, when turning acrylics.

You may wish to invest in a type of CA glue that has a rubberizing agent, as it takes the stresses a little better without breaking. Also, use of an epoxy would give a superior flexible bond that can hold better than CA. The downside is that it takes longer to set and cure before you can turn it.

Freeze the messed up blank and the old CA bond will break more easily. Heating it can also have similar effects .... in fact, holding the brass tube in a flame will likely burn/melt the old CA and plastic off without hurting the brass tube too much. Just make sure you do it OUTSIDE over a bucket of water, and dunk it before you try to crack the last of the plastic loose. Put it back on the lathe and sand the barrel rough again before gluing.


Turn at HIGH speed, take VERY light passes as you work down towards final dimensions, especially if the material is turning off in chips rather than curls. Once you get close, grab your 120 grit abranet or some sandpaper .... 80 to 200 grit, something in that range, and do the last millimeter or so by sanding.

For example, when turning an acrylic like Pot of Gold (an acrylester that turns really chippy), I turn at the max speed my lathe runs at ... 3600 RPM. I use a freshly buffed half inch bowl gouge to rough it round. I buff the back of the bevel towards the blade edge for a few seconds on my buffing wheel. This gives a very fine edge that I just touch up before every pen.

Once I have it round, I work my way down to 1 mm outside of my final dimensions ... if it's still chipping here and there, I don't take my chances and switch to 120 grit abranet to sand my way to the finished dimensions.

If you are familiar with using a skew, that may work better for you .... just make sure that it's VERY sharp.

 

[low_48]

Turn the speed way up. You can't beat the shearing cut with a skew for low tool pressures, scrapping is the worst. I don't like CA for that reason!

 

[efrulla]

These are like no acrylic I have ever turned before. I swear if I dropped one on the floor it would shatter. If you call PSI, post their answer here please. If this is a bad batch I would like to get mine replaced as well.

 

[nativewooder]

As John T. said, you need very sharp tools and CA is not your friend. There is a world of difference (to me) between carbide and HSS gouges. I understand that there are much better grades of carbide such as nano-carbide but I won't try it because I retired.

 

[magpens]

Please, I'd really like to know what we are talking about ... a Patriot pen kit

https://www.pennstateind.com/store/PKPPENCH.html

or one of the appropriately matching blanks :

https://www.pennstateind.com/store/WXKNA02.html , or

https://www.pennstateind.com/store/WXPABC.html , or

https://www.pennstateind.com/store/WXPABA.html

 

[Skie_M]

The referenced blank is the red and white stripes blank

PSI changed their supplier, and this newer version is a lot chippier and much more fragile than the previous, but it's a little cheaper.

You may want to just sand it all the way from square to finished.

 

[jttheclockman]

The referenced blank is the red and white stripes blank

PSI changed their supplier, and this newer version is a lot chippier and much more fragile than the previous, but it's a little cheaper.

You may want to just sand it all the way from square to finished.

Wow hope that is not the case. A good sharp skew has to be able to handle that material. If it is that brittle than any drop on the floor it is done. Any bang on the table and it shatters. That would be like making a pen from glass. You can not warrenty a pen like that. Again a case of cheaper is not always better. I would never use that material then. It needs to be brought to PSI attention if all is true that you people are saying.

 

[Monty]

All the debate that epoxy is better than CA for gluing in tubes is basically personal opinion, it's what you get use to working with. The main reason for blanks failing while turning is incomplete glue adhesion. Every time I've had a blank blow out on me, upon on looking at the inside of the blank, there has been no glue.
I personally use thick CA to glue in my tubes. I plug the end of the tube with wax for two reasons, to keep glue out of the tube and to work as a spreader to help coat the glue along all surfaces. I run a bead of thick CA on the inside periphery of the blank and a bead along the length of the tube. Insert the tube while rotating into the blank to spread the glue. The Thick CA gives me plenty of working time before it sets.
To me, epoxy is too messy and I end up wasting more glue than I use.
Again, to me, the debate of CA vs epoxy is a personal opinion.
As for your turning speed, I think you were turning too slow. I turn my PSI stripes blank at top speed using a carbide tool to knock the edges down.

 

[Skie_M]

The referenced blank is the red and white stripes blank

PSI changed their supplier, and this newer version is a lot chippier and much more fragile than the previous, but it's a little cheaper.

You may want to just sand it all the way from square to finished.

Wow hope that is not the case. A good sharp skew has to be able to handle that material. If it is that brittle than any drop on the floor it is done. Any bang on the table and it shatters. That would be like making a pen from glass. You can not warrenty a pen like that. Again a case of cheaper is not always better. I would never use that material then. It needs to be brought to PSI attention if all is true that you people are saying.

http://www.penturners.org/forum/f13/god-bless-texas-134604/ <-- found the thread I was looking for, finally.

It seems that they changed their supplier to one from Taiwan and they're using too much hardener, I guess? I haven't tried this particular blank or the other striped flag type blanks yet, but I have dealt with a very chippy acrylic a few times. The Pot of Gold acrylic from PSI appears to be extremely prone to chipping. It's hard enough it sounds like metal when I tap it on the table. While turning it, even with freshly sharpened chisels or my carbide tool, little chips fly off no matter how light a cut I take ...

I just turn it with my faceshield down and go till I'm somewhat close to my final dimensions (about 2mm short), and then go the rest of the way with 100 or 220 grit sandpaper.

The gem silk series at PSI are a complete world apart ... I have to get VERY aggressive to make it start chipping. It likes coming off in ribbons, with a sharp tool. I don't have to switch over to sandpaper till I'm within .1mm of my goal.

 

[jttheclockman]

If blanks are that chippy and hard to work with it behooves you and all that you contact the seller and let them know of the problem and either they return your money and pass this info onto the supplier or you avoid these blanks and they get the message. You never buy 3 blanks to make one. that is ridiculous. I would be yelling at someone.

 

[Skie_M]

Well ... the Pot of Gold was on sale for $1.95 a pop ... I figured it just went with the territory. Pay cheap, get cheap.

On the other hand, these stripes blanks are around $5 bucks apiece. If I were having this problem with these blanks or other higher dollar blanks, you can bet I'ld be chatting with someone over at PSI or wherever I got them from.

Thankfully, the only other high dollar blanks I've gotten were from Exotic Blanks (about 9 bucks apiece), and they turned with quite a bit of dust, but came out beautifully. Red and Green Opal, Color Explosion Opal, and 4-color Opal... all just gorgeous. I've only made one of the Red and Green Opal into a pen, and it was my PITH for Wyone.

 

[RedBeard]

I have turned a couple of these and have some more waiting to be turned. If I recall correctly the first two sets of blanks came from two separate suppliers (I want to say Woodturningz and Craft USA). With the ones I received the stripes section turned very well and the stars section was very "chippy" but neither felt brittle to the point that I felt dropping them would cause them to shatter. I used medium CA to glue them in.

 

[Jim Smith]

I am somewhat risk adverse when turning any of the laser cut kits. I use 220 abranet and it gets them down to size in a reasonable amount of time with VERY little chances of blowouts.

Jim Smith

 

[Charlie_W]

well I finished one of these pens and it looked great,,,so someone else wanted one and I started making it and I didn't have any trouble with the blue stars,,,,but when I started on the stripes,,it busted right down to the tube, twice it happened,,i was using ca when I glued the brass tube in and turning it at a little over 1200 rpm,,,,kinda depressing when both blanks did it,,can anyone give me some advice in correcting this problem,,i actually think on my next try at it I might try knocking the square corners off with a belt sander,,i was using the small easy wood tool to get it round

Knowing what specific orientation to the blank in which you were cutting with your EWT would be a great help here.
Where on the blank were you cutting when the blank failed?
Was there glue on the blank and the tube at point of breakout or only on one piece?
As was mentioned, corners taken off first is a tremendous help in reducing the force of the corners hitting the tool. I too feel more speed was needed.
Without more details, the only thing we can do is to speculate as to these variables and throw out possible recommendations/solutions.