No finish?

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DCBluesman

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I came across an article written by Russ Fairfield from which I quote "Various sources have described the 'best' finish as a friction polish, such as lacquer, shellac, CA glue, epoxy, and other materials. I agree that all will look good when new, and that some will wear longer than others, but all will succumb to the wear and contact with perspiration and body acids from daily use. Some of these finishes may outlast the 24k plating on the fittings, but none will outlast the Titanium-Gold plating on the premium pen fittings. Consider that the best finish for these personal items may be none at all. The natural wood will develop a patina and a polished oil finish from use and exposure to our body oils. The finish will never wear away; instead, it is maintained and enhanced by daily use and handling."

What's your experience been?
 
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tipusnr

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I agree with Russ wholeheartedly and some of my favorite wooden pieces have that sort of patina. (I used to have pipes that were that way back when I smoked.) However, few customers are going to pay for a raw pen and age it themselves. The pen I use myself is almost a year old now and the finish of the pen and the plating has changed greatly over time. Now it looks like more of an antique and still gets compliments but NO ONE wants to buy it.
 
G

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I may be wrong,but aren't people like fish?
Don't they go for something shiny?
 
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I made my first five pens last weekend. I finished them with Mylands High Build Friction Polish. Per their literature I first used their Cellulose Sanding Sealer. The finish went on well and had a very nice gloss finish.

My job took me out of town on Tuesday and I just got back home this afternoon. I used one of those pens. Mostly used it in a processing plant. I used it to make notes while examining a machine.

The finish on the lower part of the pen, the part where you hold it to write is gone. The upper part has some of the finish on it but most only remains in the area close to the clip.

I don't consider this satisfactory life for a finish on a pen. In fact I am very disappointed in the product. It was recommend by a wood turner that was working in the wood working store where I bought the product. I would expect that had I purchased the pen I would be looking for the maker for a refund.

I must do better than this.
 

dw

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Here's my two cents and for some it will be worth just about that.

First, pens are sort of the exception. There are very few other wood items I would consider putting a CA finish on.

But pens are unique because for most folks they are almost a statement of wealth and perhaps even fastidiousness, as well as a piece of jewelry.

Does a $60.00 pen perform significantly better than a $15.00 pen? Or even a $3.00 Bic? I don't think so. People don't buy handmade pens because they are superior writing instruments.

And they don't buy them for the wood either...there isn't enough wood in a pen to to convey much of the richness of the wood nor the tactile beauty of the wood.

So why do they buy them? You have to consider and understand that.

Customers do buy small items like pens because of the way they catch the eye. A CA finish is deep. Because you can "look into it," so to speak, it enhances the grain of the wood in a way that a "flatter" finish cannot. But it's colour variations and such that the customer is interested in. Nine times out of ten if you ask a customer what wood his pen is made out of after several months, he won't even remember. I've had customers walk out of my shop...with a brand new pen...and not know what the wood is.

What's more, a pen that has a shellac baased finish or some other "natural" finish picks up grime and sweat from the hands almost as if it were a magnet. Some people call this "patina." And on a bowl it might be, but on a pen it's just dirt.

For those selling at craft fairs and such...try this experiment...make two pens (or a series of pens) in which one is finshed with CA and the other is finished with a "natural" finish--same woods. I wouldn't hesitate to bet that, displayed side-by-side, with no "hype" from the maker, the CA pens will out sell the "natural" pens three to one.

And as Mac suggested, for every "natural" pen you sell, you will risk losing a customer for custom pens...yours or anyone else's...if that pen looks like crap six weeks down the road.

Just some thoughts....
 

William Young

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Mac;
I can sympatize with what you are saying.It seems you can get a good temporary high gloss finish with those friction polish concoctions and that's all. I was using Hut brown stick followed by Hut white stick follwed by several applications of Mylands. But by the time it is friction polished off there is only a microscopic layer of finish on the pen even though there is a great shine.. I have dissasembled a dozen of those pens now and I'm using the hardware to make new ones and now I am using laquer. I would be ahamed to sell a pen and have the customer complain within a month that the finish was gone. The way I am applying the laquer makes me think that it is leaving a thickness of finish on the pen that is probably equal to about a dozen or more coats of a friction polish. And as a bonus, the manufacturer claims it is chemical resistant and I know for a fact that it is much more wear resistant. I have never seen "chemical resistant" printed on any friction polish method yet .
Some here prefer CA finish and I respect that . From what I have been able to gather is that CA and laquer are the best finishes so far for pens until some other wild and wonderfull idea appears on the market. but for now , I feel that CA and WB laquer will probably outlast any 24K gold plating . I am not sure about the use of solvent based laquer because WB laquer is noted as being a superior finish to its solvent based counterpart but I beleive that even solvent base laquer would be miles ahead of any friction finishes that I am aware of. I have used both solvent based and WB laquers over the years and I would never go back to solvent base formulations for many reasons.
Great little learning curve to this pen making and I'm enjoying every bit of it... even my mistakes because I learn by them.
W.Y.
 

tipusnr

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I guess I must be luckier than most. I use my pen daily in office work in a wastewater treatment plant and my wife hers in an elementary school. I have also sold pens to two other school teachers and a copier repair man who says he uses it daily. None of the pens have had any of the problems that you speak of.

My pen doesn't have a high gloss shine any longer but the wood is still protected and the pen good looking.

Maybe my group just handles pens more kindly than the average person. But I'm getting tired of defending finishes that don't have a "hard glasslike shine" so that's enough from me.

People who purchase my pens know who I am and what types of finishes I use up front. I don't think I am damaging the market or the reputation of penturners with my work. I'm just doing the best I can in the niche I have chosen. I would hope the group has room for differing choices.

No replies are needed I as I am not offended just tired of having my views so avidly negated when validly submitted.
 
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Well, Bill, that is a interesting coincidence. The plant that I went to on Wednesday was a waste water treatment plant in a small town in Connecticut. Interesting places, those plants.
 

dw

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Just a thought...nothing that is said here is binding on anyone, as far as I know. Nor is it ever represented as "written in stone." If someone posts an opinion extolling the virtues of a CA finish, it is surely just as "validly submitted" as an opinion that takes the opposite view.

Personally, I don't think anyone has to defend their choices...as to what finish they use, or anything else for that matter...unless they choose to. But that <b>is</b> a matter of choice.

It just seems to me that expressing an opinion one way or the other is, on the face of it, neither advocating nor defending...nor even "attacking."

For my part I'm comfortable with that.
 

wayneis

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When it comes to this type of work there is no absolute best way except the way that each of us prefer to do it for ourselves. For the most part, this is an untested area, thus the need for this forum. We are here to share views, news and the little things that we pick up here and there. As DW said I believe, nothing is written in stone here, I give advise all the time but do not expect everyone to use it.

Wayne
 

DCBluesman

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I have a quick thought on this. Are there enough people out there willing to invest a few bucks in supplies and postage in an unscientific test? Maybe a handful of folks could each turn a pen, preferrably the same style out of the same wood, then give it to a third party to use for a month. Each turner would document their finish process. At the end of the month, the user would return the pen to the turner. Both the user and the turner would report back on their post-use thoughts. I'm thinking if we keep it in the group, we could have turners representing each of the major categories of finish (CA, CA/BLO, solvent-based lacquer, water based lacquer, friction and poly). I'd be glad to coordinate if enough people think this is an idea worth pursuing. I'm not looking for the definitive answer because I don't think one exists. I just think it would be interesting to see if expectations are equal to results.
 

tipusnr

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I'm not sure the test mention would really produce results that would satisfy many people. I can think of too many variables that would affect the result including the material used, how it was applied, how the user used the pen, and the individual qualitative judgement of the people involved (including me). I think this is an area where we need to agree to disagree.

How would you feel about keeping seperate areas for the CA users and the non-CA users. Both would be available for all to read and make their own decisions as to what finish they want to use. The advantage would be that those of us that choose, for whatever reason (health, personal preference, lack of confidence with CA glue) to try to develop the best alternative finish we can will have the ability to discuss this openly without the CA/non-CA discussion.

Conversely CA finish users can continue discussions on perfecting finishes and techniques without non-relevant commentary.

If you all think we don't need the separate topic area - no problem - it's just that this discussion pops-up repeatedly on this (as well as every woodworking forum I visit) before we can talk about the actual topic.

P.S. Somehow I don't think I've expressed this very well. I'm trying not to be divisive merely trying to support the advancement of both categories of finishes/finishing techniques. I hope you all understand.
 
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