Newbie and Gluing

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eugene22_73

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Hi everyone, I stumbled onto this site a week or so ago and absolutely love it. I consider myself a beginner but I have made a small number of pens. I am now in the process of cleaning up some things with my technique. My question is with regards to gluing the blanks. There are alot of different opinions out there. I've tried the thin CA but cures to fast for me. Thinking about using Pro bond polyurethane. Not worried about the long cure time b/c I will be gluing many blanks at one time. Questions are? Should I still run a coat of thin CA into the blank or will Pro bond be enough? Also I have heard the poly will expand, is it still ok to drill the blank with say 7mm bit if using 7mm pen kit or should a person drill a little larger? Last issue, I've heard some people say that epoxy glue will get brittle with age and casue some pen failure, is this true. Thanks[?]
 
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its_virgil

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I use only two part 5 min epoxy and have had no problems in the shop or from customers. Coverage is the key no matter what glue you use. If using PU glue, drill as specified in the instructions...IOW, do not drill oversize. Be careful, the PU will foam and has been known to push the tubes out of the blank. And...Welcome to the wonderful world of penturning. We have lots of excellent talent here and we love to share.
Do a good turn daily1
Don
Originally posted by eugene22_73
<br />Hi everyone, I stumbled onto this site a week or so ago and absolutely love it. I consider myself a beginner but I have made a small number of pens. I am now in the process of cleaning up some things with my technique. My question is with regards to gluing the blanks. There are alot of different opinions out there. I've tried the thin CA but cures to fast for me. Thinking about using Pro bond polyurethane. Not worried about the long cure time b/c I will be gluing many blanks at one time. Questions are? Should I still run a coat of thin CA into the blank or will Pro bond be enough? Also I have heard the poly will expand, is it still ok to drill the blank with say 7mm bit if using 7mm pen kit or should a person drill a little larger? Last issue, I've heard some people say that epoxy glue will get brittle with age and casue some pen failure, is this true. Thanks[?]
 

JimGo

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Have you tried medium or thick CA instead of thin? They take a little longer to set up than the thin stuff. Another idea if you want to keep using CA is to wait for the blank to cool down; I've had some that heated after drilling, and the heat really made the CA set up quickly.

Don's suggestion about the P/U glue is right on the money...don't intentionally drill oversize. Depending on your shop, you probably have sufficient run-out in our equipment that the hole will be oversize anyway. Even P/U glue doesn't like HUGE gaps.
 

penbros

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omaha, NE, USA.
use poly in the middle and ca on the ends so you can begin to turn in the time for the ca to set and while you are turning the poly is setting for a stronng bond.
 

LanceD

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I use 5 min. epoxy almost exclusively and have no problems whatsoever. As Don said the key is complete coverage. I let it cure for about 45 minutes to an hour then turn away. IMO I wouldn't use two different glues with two completely different cure times at the same time on the same tube. You are only asking for trouble.
 

wdcav1952

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Originally posted by penbros
<br />use poly in the middle and ca on the ends so you can begin to turn in the time for the ca to set and while you are turning the poly is setting for a stronng bond.

Welcome Eugene. We look forward to seeing your work. The suggestions for epoxy and poly are good ones. I would recommend you stay away from the above suggestion (nothing personal penbros) as turning while glue is setting is only asking for problems in my opinion.

FWIW,
 

eugene22_73

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Thank you for the info. Do any of you use a coat of thin CA inside the blank before you glue the tube? I have been doing this to strengthen the blank. After reading and researching I will try to use an epoxy and see how it works.
 

Rifleman1776

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Mountain Home, Arkansas, USA.
Originally posted by eugene22_73
<br />Thank you for the info. Do any of you use a coat of thin CA inside the blank before you glue the tube? I have been doing this to strengthen the blank. After reading and researching I will try to use an epoxy and see how it works.

Some do as a precaution. When and why is based on individual experiences. I have done this with burls that appeared fragile to me, even some that were stabilized. Unnecessary maybe, but they didn't blow so I'll never know. [:p]
 

Paco

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South Bend, Indiana, USA.
I've used 15 minute epoxy almost exclusively and have had very good results. Make sure to scuff up the tubes real good before you glue and to twist them slowly when they're inserted into the blanks so you get a nice even coverage. I've had good results with CA as well but seem to always come back to epoxy. I'm in no hurry so set up and cure times are not an issue for me. Good luck and keep coming back to this site, it's a great resource whether you're new or a veteran.
 

wdcav1952

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Originally posted by penbros
<br />what kind of trouble/

Frank gave you a good answer. My thoughts are as follows:

First, there is no way you can keep the two glues separate as you put the tube in. CA sets in a minute or less with accelerator. Poly sets overnight. So you are turning with a mix of set and unset glues. There are torque forces when you engage a turning instrument to the blank. Areas of unset glue will react differently to these forces than areas of set glue. This can lead to stress cracks that may not show up for weeks.

Second, if it were a good idea to mix CA and poly, you likely would be able to purchase such a mix. Since poly expands upon setting, if you seal the ends of the blank with CA, you inhibit that expansion, setting up forces within the blank that will likely again lead to stress cracks down the line.

Lastly, take the advice of those who suggest drilling and gluing several sets of blanks at a time. If patience does not allow that, use thick CA and accelerator. Remember, you want the recipient of your pen to still be proud of it months later.

FWIW,
 

johnkepka

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Dec 30, 2005
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St. Louis, mo, USA.
i found that if I am gluing more than one blank Gorilla glue is the best to use. No mixing and Fills gaps if they are present. If gluing only one blank my preference would be epoxy but the gorilla glue is still easier to use.
 

woodman95

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Oct 14, 2005
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Toronto, Ontario, Canada.
Hi Eugene,

The more you make pens you'll see there are different types of tubes which go inside the pen. There are straight tubes and stepped tubes. If you're using straight tubes, I heartily recommend Gorilla Glue. It expands as it dries and totally fills any gaps. It can be qa bit messy but that's easily cleaned up when you square the ends. Nothing better than Gorilla Glue for that type!

As great as Gorilla Glue is for straight tubes, don't even consider it for stepped tubes because as it dries and expands, it will cause the stepped tubes to be forced out of the end. When you come back to that blank after it dries, the tube will be glued hard as a rock with the tube end sticking partially out the end of the blank and then that blank and tube are headed for the garbage pail. I guess like most I learned the hard way.

But if you're using stepped tubes, you gotta go to 2 part epoxy which won't push the the tube out and will work great.

As far as coating the inside of the blank, I learned never to do that as it will just take more effort in cleaning out the tube later because of the now hardened glue that gets inside the tube as you push the tube into the blank. With glue only on the tube's outside, no glue gets inside the tube so nothing - or very little to remove.
 

wdcav1952

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There is an easy fix if you use GG or any other polyurethane glue. After gluing in the tubes, put a rubber band length wise on the blank to prevent the tube from coming out of place.
 

Ron Mc

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It seems to me that if you are gluing the inside of the blank as well as the tube you are creating double work for yourself.[:(]
I sand my tubes cover with Medium CA insert into blank with a twist motion. Then pull out about 3/4 of the tube and insert again. I have found this method gives the tube excellent coverage and blow outs aren't an issue.
IMO. You should witch to Medium CA and have some fun![:D]
 

vick

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Nov 16, 2004
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Gilbert, AZ, USA.
I only use epoxy now but I have tried all 3 of the standard tube glues. I think based on the working properties Poly glue is the perfect tube glue to use but I hate cleaning up the foam out and do not have the patience to wait overnight. I use 90 second epoxy that you can get from homedepot. I get the advantages of epoxy but without the wait time of standard 5 minute epoxy ( about 30 to 45 minutes to turn for 5 minute epoxy to cure). I usually wait about 10 minutes for 90 second epoxy.
To answer the brittle epoxy question I would worry about a brittle joint more with ca then epoxy. Once the pen is pressed together glue failure on the tube I do not think is an issue. Very little stress with be put on the joint and even it it does fail the wood is sandwiched betwean the metal parts so it should not hurt anything.
 
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