New to Penturning and need help on tools.

Signed-In Members Don't See This Ad
Signed-In Members Don't See This Ad

Knight

Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2009
Messages
30
Location
U.S.A.
Welcome to the group, Scott.
If you have questions on the bushings, why don't you give Johnnycnc a shout?
I have found him very helpful when I got interested in between centers.
The different sizes are for each fitting on the pen..think "sizing" bushing..
You may turn with NO bushings as some here claim to do, but I found it ridiculosly slow going.
Using bushings, ANY bushings was an improvement over NO bushings, in my experience!
You may want to try just the slimlines for now and see how it goes for you, and decide what you want to add later..John's slimlines are NICE.

The mandrel is ok if you want to try different kits on the cheap, but don't expect as good of results as a nice between centers setup, at least that was my experience. You can get there with a mandrel, but it's more effort in my trials anyway.

Try not to get in too deep financially in the beginning months..several here have gone hog-wild and then had or wanted to sell out in a relatively short time, and took a beating. Add as needed, see if this is all what you expected, try to determine a NEED, and then you will know.:)

The Woodchuck is a fine tool, makes nice work of blanks, but you can turn nice pens with a cheap tool as well. It will help you refine and learn tool sharpening, attack angles with different tools, etc.
The barrel trimmers aren't much different no matter where. I got one from Beartooth woods, it is good.

Wishing you the best of luck!
 

ROOKIETURNER

Member
Joined
Feb 26, 2010
Messages
282
Location
Naperville, IL
Being new myself I would make a few suggestions. But first the bushings. You need different sizes for the different diameters of the segments. For instance, they make different diameter than the Upper Center Band. And then the Lower Center band and the Nib are different. The bushings make it easier to turn, but DO NOT RELY 100% on the bushings. I have been taught to Mic, Mic, Mic your blank and kit before assembly, especially the cigar kit.

You could just by a set of small bushing and mic the blank as you turn until you reach the desired thickness. Many guys use there mic 99% of the time.

I would def. start off turning between centers. Forget the mandrel. JohnnyCNC is the place to get your bushings. And getting the live and dead centers from the same machinist is a good idea.

So here is some more advice:

1) Sharp Tools (If you think it is sharp, go back to the sander or grinder, which ever is your favorite sharpening method, and sharpen some more.)

2) Slimlines are nice to start off with, but you are trimming so much off of the blank, don't buy anything expensive. I used some nice maple that I had laying around the shop for my first several Slimlines and Euros. I have later revamped my thinking on what kit to start with. I would start off with the Wall StreetII, a.k.a. Gatsby, a.k.a. Seirra, depending on where you get it. They use the same bushings, but assembly is different on all of them. The reason I like the WSII is that it is easier to assemble than the Slimline (Less parts to press, the clip won't spin, no center band to deal with.

3) Read the instructions, then read them again, and read them again, and make sure that you finish by reading them again.

4) IMHO, I would use Thick CA to glue the tubes, Medium CA to finish and Thin CA to fill. YMMV.

5) Learn how to CA/BLO finish starting off. It is the way to go, and you have to start sometime.

Here is a link to the best CA/BLO finish; CA finish; and CA filling technique out there (IMHO).

http://www.woodturnerruss.com/PenPages-FinishingPens-CAglue.html

6) Make sure that your tools are SHARP!

7) Ask for help anytime, right here. And I mean that. Most of these guys have forgotten more about Pen Turning than I will ever learn.

8) If you don't have a picture, it didn't happen.

9) Did I mention to make sure that your tools are SHARP?

10) KEEP YOUR FIRST PEN!!!

Have fun and post those pics of your finished products, can't wait to see your first!
 

cnccutter

Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2010
Messages
356
Location
Dorena, Oregon, 97434, USA
Good afternoon Scott

welcome to the dark side

is looks like you have a pretty good start on some tools to work with. I think that most of us started with a pretty rag tag pile of tools and have worked into the shop we have over time. there are a lot of places you can wait to buy "better" tools and such. the lath tools are one of them in my opinion. you may have to spend more time getting them sharp the first time and then maybe sharpening more often, but they will get the job done.

the Bushing you mentioned are really pretty cheap in the long run. they last a long time if your carfull and the 5 bucks you spend on a full kit will allow you to turn both the top and bottom at once. I like to be able to step back and look at what the finished profile will look like and it wont be pretty hard to do that without having everything on the mandrel at the same time. the drill size you mentioned is only part of the picture. you also have to consider the amount of material that is left between the brass tube and the outer finished profile. the bushing help you get the that easier when you first start. I sometimes don't use bushings at all for anything other that a spacer. most of the work is done with calipers after measuring the kit pieces. I don't know I'd advise that route right at first.

the first barrel trimmers I got were from Whimsies too. they work fine to start with, but didn't take too long and I upgraded to better ones.

prepare to empty your wallet having fun.
Erik
 

ROOKIETURNER

Member
Joined
Feb 26, 2010
Messages
282
Location
Naperville, IL
Empty wallet, credit cards, mad money stash, kid's piggy bank(s), College fund, Give Blood, Whatever it takes...Kinda fellin' dizzy, shouldn't have given blood three times this week...needed some more kits...gotta lie down............
 

OldGrumpy

Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2009
Messages
308
Location
Oak Leaf, TX
Getting started

I just started turning in January so my perspective may be a little different. I jusr want to enjoy the few hours I can spend and make some good pens. I started with slimlines but I think The Gatsby is really nicer and easier - also more expensive.

I use the keyless mandrel from PSI and find it very easy and friendly for the novice. When I first started I only finished my pens with EEE and Shellawax. Since then I experimented with CA but did not like working with it. Now I am trying polyurethane and really like ther results.

There are some great articles in the Library here. Read them and try some of the things you like.

Bottom line is have fun - don't get too serious - and use the techniques you are comfortable with.
 

jeffnreno

Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2006
Messages
201
Location
Reno, NV, USA.
Starting Tools

Wether you start with between centers or mandrel is often a matter of how much you would like to invest. You can get good results regardless although between centers is better. If you go mandrel I would go with the adjustable mandrel so you can reduce the shaft length and get better results.

For turning tools I turn almost all of my pens with 3 tools (full size) - 1/2 oval skew, roughing gouge, and parting tool.

Good luck and enjoy your new hobby.
 

mredburn

IAP Activities Manager
Staff member
Joined
Jul 5, 2009
Messages
8,752
Location
Fort Myers FL
Practice your turning and finishing on pine or other cheap if not free wood. That will help stop expensive "oops". If your the kinda person that commits to something one minute and then something else the next, buy the inexpensive tools. If you like to jump in and master the craft and stay the long haul buy the better tools. WElcome to the madness.
 

bitshird

Member
Joined
Aug 27, 2007
Messages
10,236
Location
Adamsville, TN, USA.
Scott, I make the Woodchuck tools, and as much as I like sales, I Honestly think you are better off learning basic turning with HSS tools, the Harbor Freight sets are So So but once you learn to use a Skew, which is arguably the hardest tool to gain proficiency with, then by all means buy one of my woodchucks. The main thing is learn to sharpen your basic tools, on my web site under feedback there is an article from the secretary of the North Florida wood turners, While he was referring to the use of the original woodchuck tool, and it's use turning bowls, he is right. I made the woodchucks because I didn't like spending time sharpening tools, and having been a Machinist I well understood the principles of tool sharpening, but I learned to turn pens using an older Craftsman HSS set, they are quite a bit better grade of tools than the harbor freight tools but I paid 60.00 for the set at a yard sale.
As far as the bushings, the reason there are so many sets is they are designed to also give a reference to the outer diameter of the pen kits, However, it is entirely possible to turn a pen, nearly any pen with no bushings, just a dead and a live center and a good set of calipers, BUT !!!! Johnny's bushings are without question a great investment, in truth you can get by with about 4 sets, 1 for 7mm pens Slimlines and such, 1 for cigars one for the Junior series which is one of the largest selling and most popular capped pens and a set for Sierras. When you get your feet wet then grab one of my amazing Woodchucks, but a skew and a roughing gouge are necessary tools to learn turning with, plus you'll need to keep a parting tool sharp.
 

louie68

Member
Joined
Mar 8, 2010
Messages
364
Location
USA
Welcome Scott, I started out in Jan. 2010 made 10 pens so far my first ones were deco pens little tricky cutting in tenon now no problem. Second ones were European pens, last ones were Aero pens little more expensive but so easy to assemble. Get your self a good pen press to put your pens together.Drill press, Jorgenson wood clamp to hole yours blanks when drilling i use a 6" clamp, but waiting for my Paul Huffman vise to be made.All my pens kits were purchase from www.woodturnerscatalog.com Remember read instructions over & over before assemble & then read them again. I know my first pen I drove the transmission to far in now its my reminder *********** pen ******** Good Luck and Have fun !!!
" If nothing ever changed, there'd be no butterflies"
 

johnnycnc

Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2006
Messages
3,612
Location
columbus, IN, USA.
Hi Scott, Welcome to the group!
I'll say start cheap and work up.
And in my opinion..you won't fully appreciate my bushings unless you turn on the mandrel for a while. My stuff is a great setup, but I suggest trying the mandrel first.
And, you may be satisfied with what you get. Everyone's opinion of what they are after is different..
Drop me a line if/when you are getting less than desired results..we can talk!
 

JoeHodge1978

Member
Joined
Jan 19, 2010
Messages
63
Location
Buckhead Swamp,South Carolina
Welcome to the world of pen turning.Dont listen to these guys and turn between centers...use bushings:)!!!!!!!Be sure to order some extra tubes when starting.Like some of the guys have said,start with the slimline then try another kit.I have been turning for 2 years and still dont have all the kits.Youtube can really help you and has alot of great vids on pen turning.Just dont sweat messing up on apen,just remember...there are no mistakes,just new-unplanned learning experiences.Above all else ...HAVE FUN!!!!!!!!!!!
 

jocat54

Member
Joined
Dec 4, 2009
Messages
471
Location
Leakey, Texas
Scott, welcome. I just started turning between centers a couple of months ago and I don't foresee ever going back to a mandrel, there is just that much difference in the results. As far as tools I have a couple of complete sets but I turn everything with a skew, it's what I learned on a long time ago and just never learned to use anything else. The only other tool I use is a parting tool. Drilling on the lathe is also much more accurate.
 

JimB

Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2008
Messages
4,683
Location
West Henrietta, NY, USA.
Scott - I have been at this for about 2 years. My first tools were the HF set and I still use them today for all my pens and other small items. I do have some tools that were more expensive such as my Sorby bowl gouge that cost more than the set I bought from HF. I also have some tools that I picked up for just a few bucks each from other turners at my local club. They are so used I don't even know what brand they are but they work great. I don't regret buying any of he tools, cheap or expensive and still us them all. You do not need expensive tools to get started. Actually you may never need expensive tools.

As far as the Mandrel or Between Centers question goes, my answer is BOTH! Single barrell pens such as the Sierra or Atlas I do between centers. For 2 barrel pens I usually use a mandrel so I can see the whole pen at once. For Between Centers I use the stock bushing as I have not (yet) bought JohnnyCNC's. (you need his for slimlines).
 

LEAP

Member
Joined
Dec 22, 2006
Messages
1,938
Location
Old Orchard Beach, Maine
Welcome Scott,
What ever tools you end up with I have one suggestion. First take a piece of 2x4 and cut it into a bunch of foot long square pieces. Next chuck them up between your centers. Then play with each of the tools until you get a feel for them. In short practice, practice and practice some more on wood that is cheap and has a uniform density. I've had the pleasure of teaching a few folks to turn and always start them this way. It takes any pressure off to get things right cause your trying to make something. Have fun, Play and experiment for an afternoon then when your getting the feel for things follow the excellent advice from the above posts and start making pens.
 

Mac

Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2008
Messages
532
Location
Bingen, Arkansas
This is what you are missing on the cigar at least the ones craft supply sells. .476''--.575''--.530''--.462''.
Go to craft supply website click on assembly instructions they have files on all, with pictures.
Since you have calipers go buy 60 degree live center for your tailstock and make a 60 degree dead center for the head stock out of wood (good practice) and buy kits and start making them . Just measure your parts and match the blank with the part. This is the cheapest way that I can think of. Grizzly has a 60 degree live center less than $12.
As for turning the dead center just measure the MT and turn away. Also everytime you use the dead center you will have to turn a little off to retrue the center.
 

JimB

Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2008
Messages
4,683
Location
West Henrietta, NY, USA.
You can not slip one bushing over another. However, you can just use the standard (cheap) bushing to TBC. That's what I do.

You will want Thick CA to glue tubes not thin or medium. The Thick is much better at gap filling. You can also use 2 part epoxy or other glues like Gorilla Glue that are good at gap filling. Thin and Medium CA are good for doing a CA finish and some other uses but not best for gluing tubes.

You can use any wood you want for practice and learning but why use nice wood when you don't need to and if you are not actually making anything? If you have 2x4's they are great to learn on. At the last local club meeting one of the 20 year veterans was demonstrating techniques with several diffrent tools. He did it all on 2x4's. He told the group he uses the same wood when he is in his shop and wants to try some new things.
 

PaulSF

Member
Joined
Oct 9, 2009
Messages
286
Location
San Francisco
I wouldn't invest in expensive, better-quality bushings until you have decided what kind of pens you'll be making most frequently. I've narrowed my preference down to two or three styles now, and it seems from the pictures people post that everyone else does pretty much the same. Once you've decided which pen styles you prefer, get the good bushings!
 

gwisher

Member
Joined
Dec 26, 2009
Messages
154
Location
Roseville, MN
I am also from MN and have seen very few members from our area. This place has helped me a great deal since I first started a few months back. I bought some of the cheap harbor freight chisles and immidiately went to Rockler and bought a nice set and they made all the difference! Sharp, Sharp, Sharp!! Have fun and good luck
 

Gary Zakian

Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2010
Messages
92
Location
Bloomington, Indiana
Scott,

Just a few pictures and thoughts from someone who just started turning in January 2010.

I do not have anyone nearby to learn turning from, so I spent a lot of time reading on this site, looking at YouTube videos, and reading many books from my local library.

As for turning, rather than put pressure on myself to "produce" something, I chose to have some fun and experiment. That way if something did not work as planned it was OK since that is the nature of experimentation and having fun.

The pictures below are my fun experiments with blanks turned between centers. (From left to right) in picture number 1 is cherry, white oak, yellow heart, walnut, and basswood. Picture number 2 is cherry and yellow heart, and picture number 3 is white oak and walnut. I chose each of these as "sacrificial blanks" for my experiment. The basswood I got from hobby lobby for around $2.99. It started out as 1" square by 30" long, which I cut into 8" - 9" segments.

There were seven (7) experiments I conducted using these blanks. First, I used a gauge, skew and parting tool on each blank, as the spirit moved me, to get a feel for what each was best or better at than the other tools on the various woods. Second, I wanted to learn the turning ease or difficulty presented by each of the woods with regard to softness, grain, density, etc… . Third, I sought to learn what tools I felt more comfortable with in making the basic shapes. Fourth, some of the blanks had voids and open spaces that I practiced filling with CA and CA/sawdust. Fifth, I used sandpaper from 320 up through 1500 to see what each grit would do on each wood before applying any CA or BLO. Sixth, I tried some different finishes on the cherry, yellow heart, and white oak. The bottom shape on each is about 5-6 coats of BLO only after sanding to 1500 with dry sandpaper. This was just to see what straight BLO looked like on each one. The second shape up on each is a BLO base with 4-5 layers of CA/BLO on top of the BLO base. The third shape up on each is a CA base, with 4-5 layers of CA/BLO on top of the CA base. The top-most shape is finished with 5-6 layers of CA only. I micro mesh wet-sanded the top three shapes (not the BLO-only shape) from 3600 to 15000 to learn how each MM grade worked. And seventh, I am keeping these turnings and using them as reference guides for when I make pens from these various woods so I can see what finish looks best and whether there is any change in the finish over time.

The Walnut blank is BLO on the bottom, CA/BLO in the middle, and straight CA on top, finished with MM as indicated above. The bass wood has no finish at all, just dry sanding to 1500 with sandpaper.

When I was all done with each one I would have the members of my family come in individually and touch and feel each shape and finish and let me know what they liked and did not like about each turned blank. Their input was helpful and helped them understand what all the noise and odors were about.

Hope this helps.

Gary Zakian
 

Attachments

  • PICT0971.jpg
    PICT0971.jpg
    38.5 KB · Views: 96
  • PICT0972.jpg
    PICT0972.jpg
    22.3 KB · Views: 98
  • PICT0973.jpg
    PICT0973.jpg
    22.6 KB · Views: 92
Top Bottom