the new cheap crapola grade pen lines bother me

[redfishsc]

These new "lines" of pens by PSI ("funline) and "Artisan" (CSA) bother me.


Mind you, I have never bought a single one and never will. I do not, and refuse to, sell anything 24K plated or something a company is not willing to back with a guarantee (such as the PSI funlines, they do not back the platings).

So now why does CSA offer a cheaper grade of pen and claim it to be the same quality as the other pens? If the price is HALF of it's more costly counterpart (ie, the non-"artisan" 24K slimlines and euros), I can assure you it's NOT as good a quality pen. Something was sacrificed. Perhaps the plating is the same with CSA pens (still 24K trash) but **something** somewhere went down the drain, just simple economics.



But I think what worries me more is the number of people who sell lousy grade 24K pens just because they can get the pens cheaper. I have had several people look at the slimlines I offer and say something about one they bought a few years ago from someone else and all the plating rotted off of it. I have to assure them that Ti gold won't (though it can be scratched, it won't rub off).

So maybe this is a rant, but I would prefer these companies understand that it is in THEIR best interest to sell only top-notch pen kits, because the more pen makers selling dumpster-grade pens for $30+ is going really tarnish the image of kit pen makers, as I have seen already.

Just to lay all my cards on the table, I simply do not and will not sell pens that are plated with 24K or 10K or any "upgrade gold"--- I ONLY and I mean ONLY sell Ti gold if they want "gold". I do also use black ti, chrome, rhodium/platinum, and even jet black and satin nickel, but the latter two come with an exhortation to take care of them since they can be scratched, but still nothing compared to the way the 24K pens deteriorate. This policy has really bolstered my product image and give me peace of mind that a customer won't be calling me back about how decrepid his pen plating looks, and peace of mind that all those gift pens I gave away last year at Christmas still look good a year later.


......



Ah.... I feel much better now!!!

 

[ctwxlvr]

I have to say I have some TI gold pens where I have had to replace the tip due to the "gold" wearing off, so far the company I have purchased them from has warrantied them ... one looked like defective plating, the other was pure wear, and had only been made 2 months and in use one.

 

[alparent]

I'm on the same page as you are. The 24k pens I purchased when I first started are only given as gifts and with an explanation on the plating. Same thing go's for people that want special clips. The only pen I do sell in 24k are the one's that don't come in better plating. But I always inform my clients of what to expect.

I wish all pen models where offered in good plating. If they keep making the kit....they must be selling them? Why not make them also in better plating?

 

[rherrell]

Amen, Brother Redfish! I agree!

 

[GBusardo]

I am not sure what to think. The gold plated pen (not sure if its 10K or 24K) I have been using for months and months (quite a few) does have some scratches but no real wear. I am not easy on my pens.
I have some Rhodium plated pens that looked bumpy right out of the bag and some chrome pens that have had their issues.
As far as platings, I have some real questions. What really concerns me is that since the advent of the cheaper plated pens, whose to say that the cheapy pen kits have not infiltrated the more expensive the bins of sellers. The sellers may not even be aware of what they are selling.
Am I nuts? Am I the only one who has started to notice a quality difference in the platings of kits?

 

[arioux]

Hi,

I'm having the same question. We all know that 24k or 10k gold wont usuall last, altough i had some PSI 24k that were surprisingly resistant. A good point for PSI, they say and admit that their funline is cheap (no garantee). As CSUSA with their apprentice line. What really woory me, is the fact that there are more and more resellers, with slim pen in the $1.50 - $1.75 price range with supposely high plating (black Ti and Rhodium). This is the price range of the PSI "funline" and CSU apprentice.

Something is wrong, terribly wrong. I sell a lot a slimline around here and i really start to feel "unconfident", as to when will it come back with problems because i bought some of those "hey wow, nice bargain price" kit.

How can i know if my Ti gold pen is really TI gold?
How can i make the difference between black TI and gun metal or black chrome
Chrome or rhodium?

Psi migh not have the best kit around but at least you know you have two grade.
CSU made it clear too with their apprentice line.

What grade do we get from the others ?

More and more reseller are having their hown line of exclusive plating, to try to grab their part of the market. Many of them deal directly with the plan in china or wherever they will get the cheaper cost to atttract us.

Quality control? no way at $0.81 a kit (That Reizling co.)

Rhodium at $1.59....I say no way
Black TI at $1.59 ....I say no way

Now why PSI and CSU goes to this market? Because someone ask for them and buy them or their market study said got for it, there is a market out there.

Ouf....... i need my prosac and sorry if i offended anyone that like and use those kit but i really don't think they will last.

Hey,,, I just made my first real rant on IAP [}]

Alfred

 

[ed4copies]

Can you spell

<center>PROFIT MARGIN!!</center>

CSUSA, Berea and PSI have had NO competition for years. They have all made a nice living buying pens at $1 and selling them to us for $5. NOW, there are Chinese suppliers going AROUND them.

The future will be interesting (An ancient Chinese curse, I am told, is "May you live in interesting times!"). But don't kid yourselves. There most certainly IS the possibility that YOUR favorite suppliers have been marking the product UP 500%!! WHICH, I believe, is a DROP IN THE BUCKET compared with the markup on the Emperor and it's ilk.

PSI has always been the "budget line". Notice how long their Majestic held it's $50 price tag??? YOU THINK THE PEN HAS CHANGED???? NO, they want to MOVE them, so the PRICE is changed!!

Next year the Chinese will be offering "Majestics and Emperors" to Woodnwhimsies and the other resellers (MY OPINION) and we will all have the opportunity to buy them for $10.ish. I, for one, will be ordering!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[wood-of-1kind]

Originally posted by ed4copies
I, for one, will be ordering!!!!!!!!!!!!

OK, Ed, I want in your GROUP BUY when you're ready to go.[]

-Peter-[]

 

[ed4copies]

Well, Peter, they will be expensive in Canada, still!![][][][][]

 

[jcollazo]

Ed, you are somewhat correct about the profit margin. Lately I've sourcing products from China and Taiwan for my little web store to sell. Almost every time I've inquired about prices the first thing I'm asked is "How much do you want to pay?" Quality control is directly tied to the price of the product. The more I (the importer) am willing to pay, the better the quality. Top dollar goes to the company that exclusively manufactures for a specific seller.

I found this out this week when one of our high end vendors contacted me after I contacted a company in Taiwan. The message was clearly "they make kits on for us!". This vendor has spent major money for a quality product and expects a return. That's fine with me. It's when vendors (me included) sets a price, as you said, 500% because they feel that's what the market (us) will pay. Also, that markup includes 500% on their import costs per item.

I hope when the Majestics and Emperors sell for $10ish that I'll be one of the vendors selling them.

 

[gerryr]

One thing you need to remember is that the people here represent probably a minority stake in overall pen kit sales. I know quite a few "real" woodturners locally who, although they look down their nose at me because I only turn pens, will turn 20-30 pens a year for gifts and there's even one guy who sets up shop in his church near Christmas and sells his junk, and I do mean junk. These people all buy their kits from PSI, cheapest they can get, because "it's just a pen." There are also countless schools around the country that offer woodturning courses and the students make a pen or two, also cheap slimline kits from PSI.

I'm not sure I understand what difference it makes if companies sell these cheap kits or not. If you don't like them, you don't have to buy them.

 

[splinter99]

I recently purchased some fancy chrome slimlines from a well known supplier (I wont mention who) at $2.00 each only to find they now make the nibs out of plastic..

 

[arioux]

Hi,

Interesting point Ed and you have a lot more experience than me in retail and selling and mabe i'm way out in the right field. So the $1.59 rhodium would be really rhodium with the same quality plating as the higher end kits. That means we could get chrome for $0.75 or even less. Where is it?

And the $1.65 PSI funline gold plating is the same pen as their $2.75 golf plating one but they just lower their profit margin on it to get the market and make us beleive that there is two type of plating? Could be but I doubt it.

Altough you make some very interesting observation concerning the higher end (and i agree somehow with you, except that when you mass produce an item, it usually cost less thus price reduction on a new product that was a hit ), i still think that the market have been flooded with really low end cheap plating kit, but only time will prove me wrong (wich i honestly and sincerly hope so)because i have some of those pen in the field.

Alfred

 

[redfishsc]

Originally posted by GBusardo
<br />As far as platings, I have some real questions. What really concerns me is that since the advent of the cheaper plated pens, whose to say that the cheapy pen kits have not infiltrated the more expensive the bins of sellers. The sellers may not even be aware of what they are selling.
Am I nuts? Am I the only one who has started to notice a quality difference in the platings of kits?

You are spot-on. I have had a ton of trouble (meaning 10 pens or so) with Rhodium and Ti gold from CSA, it gets little pits in it. I am using an Imperial that is pitted insanely, but only on the nib end. The clip and end finials look superb.

 

[redfishsc]

Originally posted by gerryr
<br />and there's even one guy who sets up shop in his church near Christmas and sells his junk, and I do mean junk. These people all buy their kits from PSI, cheapest they can get, because "it's just a pen." There are also countless schools around the country that offer woodturning courses and the students make a pen or two, also cheap slimline kits from PSI.

I'm not sure I understand what difference it makes if companies sell these cheap kits or not. If you don't like them, you don't have to buy them.

Guys like this, selling things in the church, are the kind that Jesus had a big problem with extorting people at the Temple in Jerusalem. The vendors (selling doves/pigeons and similar "sacrificial" animals) were swindling people big time. Jesus came along with a whip he hand-made[] and cleared house.


As far as why cheapo kits bother me, I'd rather cheap kits become much, much harder to get so that jokers like the one above selling things in a church will quit selling lousy grade work with cruddy platings and giving you and me a bad name.

 

[workinforwood]

I guess I have to disagree. I buy and sell the cheap kits and have a need for them. I mostly make bigger better pens, but I have customers that want cheap $10 pens. I toss on a small chunk of wood and spin it out for them and I make them aware it's a cheapo pen that wears off, but they don't care because they just want an el-cheapo pen that they can use and not be afraid of losing it. This is not the majority of my customers, but it is enough of them that I have to carry some. It's not giving me a bad name when I am making sure the customer understand they are buying crap.

And then, there is the starter people, like at the woodshow in town every year where they get to spin their own pen for $10. It's an el-cheapo and they do tell you that, but it's not about the quality of the pen, it's about finding out if your interested in pen turning. You can argue both sides of the fence, I'm just saying there's a place for everything. I think the real issue isn't the cheapo kit but the dis-honest pen maker.

 

[redfishsc]

Originally posted by workinforwood
<br />I guess I have to disagree. I buy and sell the cheap kits and have a need for them. I mostly make bigger better pens, but I have customers that want cheap $10 pens. I toss on a small chunk of wood and spin it out for them and I make them aware it's a cheapo pen that wears off, but they don't care because they just want an el-cheapo pen that they can use and not be afraid of losing it. This is not the majority of my customers, but it is enough of them that I have to carry some. It's not giving me a bad name when I am making sure the customer understand they are buying crap.

And then, there is the starter people, like at the woodshow in town every year where they get to spin their own pen for $10. It's an el-cheapo and they do tell you that, but it's not about the quality of the pen, it's about finding out if your interested in pen turning. You can argue both sides of the fence, I'm just saying there's a place for everything. I think the real issue isn't the cheapo kit but the dis-honest pen maker.

Your last statement hit the nail on the head, and there are seemingly more dishonest ones out there considering the number of cheap grade kits I see sold at prices that are inflated. I honestly don't think I have even seen ONE pen for sale in my area (a fairly large city by Southern standards) that was anything other than cheap 24K, and they were the same price I sell my ti-golds and such for. (I know they are the 24K by subtle clues, such as pens that are sold that ONLY come in 24K, and the pens I've seen that were bought and used looked like they had road rash when they ought not have).

As far as selling 24K pens, I personally don't bother b/c of my own personal philosophy. I do not in the least believe in making a product I know is inferior even if "the price is right" for me and the customer. Now, I'm also not making pens to make a huge cash flow. I'd personally rather sell one $80 Ti-gold fountain pen than 15 24K slimlines for $15 each. I'd just rather not make something that comes with a disclaimer that essentially says "this pen will self destruct in 30 days". To me it's just an issue of integrity, though I am not trying to downplay yours-- you are honest and upfront with them about the durability. While you say it doesn't hurt your image, and perhaps it truly doesn't, I'd personally prefer not to spend time making a $10 pen (I would go broke making $10 pens in a hurry). I want every pen that comes from my lathe to be durable, dependable, and elegant. A 24K pen can, at best, score only 1 of those 3.

The one big exception is Chrome. It's nice and tough (though I do NOT trust "funline" chromes simply b/c their own manufacturer does not trust them). Though I charge about $20-ish for them, especially if they are wood (time spent on finishing). I also don't sell a lot of slimmies, which is fine b/c I don't like making them. I would rather make and sell the Streamlines, especially the flat-top (Berea) and they come in all sorts of nice platings. Excellent pens.

 

[bitshird]

I understand your comitm3ent to not using a cheap plating, and I understand that except for the Titanium gold, all gold plating will wear faster than either Platinum, Rhodium, Chrome and about the only thing that will wear as fast or faster than Gold would be Sterling Silver or Copper plating
What about the 18 Kt Swiss plating or the so-called upgrade Gold plating, these only seem top be offered by one supplier.
I just started turning pens, and have been using mostly Rhodium, Satin pearl, which I suspect to be nickel or a brushed chrome, and a so-called Titanium, which actually is pretty durable, I tried buffing the plating off a pen nib that I had ruined.
I have some buffing compounds that are more aggressive than white diamond that are used on Stainless and Chrome, the Chinese titanium held up pretty well, I wish I hadn’t bought any Gold plated kits, and probably won’t buy any more, I’m not sure the market around me will stand the extra cost of Ti Gold .
Other than a set I did on an order I’ve only been asking 20.00 for slim lines in wood and 30.00 in antler and 25.00 for euros and cigars, so I really don’t think I’ve been cheating any customers, I’ve only sold 4 pens other than an order for a set of Olivewood.
Is the “Upgrade Gold†worth the extra money?
Ken Ferrell

 

[Texatdurango]

I keep seeing the term "<b>higher quality kits</b>" mentioned in reference to the "<b>cheaper kits</b>". Personally I think a whole lot of us are being duped into believing that the "higher quality" kits are actually better quality platings rather than just being "higher priced"!

I had my fill with the $12 - $15 Sierras with their "upgraded" titanium platings, showing wear spots within a few months. Who is to say the $4 kits aren't just as durable and we're just paying triple for the kits because of a few fancy terms!

Sure would be sad for some of you folks that are looking down your nose at those using "cheap kits" to find out that your kits are just as cheap... but you're just paying more! [:0]

 

[Geo in Winnipeg]

Ken, If you're talking about "18 Kt Swiss Rose Gold" plating - be aware that it tarnishes faster than you can imagine. It will look like crap very quickly and I don't think there is anything you can do to prevent it. When it's new and shiny it looks beautiful but that only lasts a week or so (even if you don't touch it). I tried waxes and TSW. That's been my experience with it.[V]

 

[bitshird]

George,
That's kind of what I was thinking, with the description of binding copper, which is a rapid oxidizing metal with gold, I've had to polish a lot of "Rose Gold" and “Hamilton Gold†both of which are alloyed with a higher copper content same with purple gold which is alloyed with iron, which also oxidizes quickly, I’m really getting about ready to CNC some wax patterns and cast some sterling parts for kits like the Euro/Mont Blanc, and Cigar.
There are two new sterling alloys that are pretty tarnish resistant, trying to figure the clip though, there isn’t any way to sufficiently harden sterling to stand the stress, I guess just order the kits in Chrome, and use that clip. Figuring out the rate of shrinkage is the main thing holding me up.
Still using the PVD Gold Titanium seems like the best solution on orders that want gold,
Ken Ferrell

 

[wood-of-1kind]

Originally posted by ed4copies
<br />Well, Peter, they will be expensive in Canada, still!![][][][][]

No problem Ed. The way our dollar is escalating against the greenback, I like my chances.

-Peter-[]

 

[wolftat]

I have seen a lot of expensive pens at shows that are garbage just because the maker turns out 50 a day or 10 an hour (actual brags)and the fit and finish are garbage. I take pride in what I do and don't buy junk , but I do test out as many pens from as many suppliers as I can. I decide what is junk by my own testing, not by price. Open your minds and don't think a pen is any better because it cost more, otherwise someone will become a real scumbag and just make a killing on junk kits. Or has it already happened?

 

[bitshird]

OK so what is the verdict on the kits that have upgrade gold?? Not the mechanical parts, just the plating!
Ken Ferrrell

 

[wood-of-1kind]

Originally posted by wolftat
<br /> Open your minds and don't think a pen is any better because it cost more, otherwise someone will become a real scumbag and just make a killing on junk kits. Or has it already happened?

My belief only and reflects a personal opinion. There is somewhat a false sense of relief that because one uses a 'certain' plating that the lifespan of the pen will be greatly extended or that it can be subjected to 'rougher' treatment than say 10K gold plating. I do not question that Ti is much more durable than regular gold plating. But based on some personal observations I maintain that the so called "superior" and hence higher priced kits may be somewhat based more on perception rather than reality. The price variance between kits with different platings is more of a marketing ploy rather than a true reflection of actual wear and tear.JMO
-Peter-[]

 

[gerryr]

Originally posted by bitshird
<br />OK so what is the verdict on the kits that have upgrade gold?? Not the mechanical parts, just the plating!
Ken Ferrrell

If you want a gold color that will last, you MUST use gold titanium.

 

[JWW]

My belief only and reflects a personal opinion. There is somewhat a false sense of relief that because one uses a 'certain' plating that the lifespan of the pen will be greatly extended or that it can be subjected to 'rougher' treatment than say 10K gold plating. I do not question that Ti is much more durable than regular gold plating. But based on some personal observations I maintain that the so called "superior" and hence higher priced kits may be somewhat based more on perception rather than reality. The price variance between kits with different platings is more of a marketing ploy rather than a true reflection of actual wear and tear.JMO

Amen!

 

[cdcarter]

I wasn't even aware of the PSI low-end line, since I rarely look at them. I had seen the Apprentice series and assumed it was crap.

Sure hurts my profit margins to pay $8 for a Ti Gold cigar kit when some guys are knocking out a pen every 10 minutes with a $3 24k euro.

But I notice the TG cigars from Berea have been cut to the $6 range. What's that about?

 

[redfishsc]

I have made more than two dozen of the Ti gold cigar kits from Berea in the past two months, and so far there seems to be no compromise. They all look great and seem to wear like tigold should. I will say that I intentionally use CSA bushings even on Berea cigars simply b/c they seem to last a bit longer and are more consistent. Just an observation. I make more cigars than anything.

 

[Rifleman1776]

I don't understand why their offerings should "bother" you, or anyone. If you don't like it, don't buy it and move on. Those of us here represent a very tiny percentage of the pen kit buying market. I would love to see sales figures from these companies. I'm surmising that low-end 24K Slimlines are the major mover. These companies are simply filling a niche in their catalogs to satisfy a market they see out there. And, we ain't it.

 

[cdcarter]

Reasonable point, Rifle. Why should beginners have to ruin a bunch of $8 kits while they're learning?

Originally posted by Rifleman1776
<br />I don't understand why their offerings should "bother" you, or anyone. If you don't like it, don't buy it and move on. Those of us here represent a very tiny percentage of the pen kit buying market. I would love to see sales figures from these companies. I'm surmising that low-end 24K Slimlines are the major mover. These companies are simply filling a niche in their catalogs to satisfy a market they see out there. And, we ain't it.

 

[winpooh498]

I have had a ton of trouble (meaning 10 pens or so) with Rhodium and Ti gold from CSA, it gets little pits in it. I am using an Imperial that is pitted insanely, but only on the nib end. The clip and end finials look superb.

I have been reading this thread for a while and I have a question. There has been a lot of talk about the quality of the finishes we get on the different kits, and every once in a while someone brings up body chemistry. Now it seems to me that body chemistry has a lot to do with the issue. Redfishsc says that the only place that he is having issues is on the nib end, well where does the pen components come in most contact with his skin? What makes me think that body chemistry is most of the issues is because we had to replace Shane's wedding ring, it turned his finger black and the silver stated pitting.[V] I can't ware Sterling Silver I get a nasty rash with in minutes of having it on [xx(], so I know that I would not buy a pen in that finish for my use. I use an "upgrade gold" Sierra daily, it is in my purse, diaper bag and even my 2 yr olds mouth [:0] [B)] at times and the finish show no signs of wear. Now I know that the finishes on the kits is thin and wear away easy, but I think that body chemistry has a lot to do with how fast the corrosion happens. I agree with the above statement of "If you do like it, don't buy it and move on". And instead of blaming the supplier, the we need to think about the other possibilities.
We only use a product that we are will to put our names on, if it isn't something we feel comfortable with putting our names on then we don't use it, but we don't bad mouth the product or the seller either.
I am not trying to cause a flame up here, but I had to ask. Maybe someone will tell me to "shut the heck up, and go back to my shop". Ok then, I will. [][]

Have a wonderful day

 

[JWW]

I don't understand why their offerings should "bother" you, or anyone. If you don't like it, don't buy it and move on. Those of us here represent a very tiny percentage of the pen kit buying market. I would love to see sales figures from these companies. I'm surmising that low-end 24K Slimlines are the major mover. These companies are simply filling a niche in their catalogs to satisfy a market they see out there. And, we ain't it.

AMEN Again!

 

[bitshird]

I have been reading this thread for a while and I have a question. There has been a lot of talk about the quality of the finishes we get on the different kits, and every once in a while someone brings up body chemistry. Now it seems to me that body chemistry has a lot to do with the issue

You are absolutely correct, Body chemistry does play a major part of plating durability, I was a jewelry manufacturer for many years, and have come across many instances of metals reacting with people in different ways, The main culprit in allergic reactions to Gold and Silver is not the basic metal it's self, rather the metals it is alloyed with, namely copper! I am now around ground and polished steel in a machine shop, we have several people that can touch a piece of freshly precision ground and lapped tool steel and with in an hour or two there are signs of corrosion where they have touched it.
Some folks just have more acid in their systems than others, in some this is caused by medications they are using, I can handle metal all day and no ill effect on the product, so can most of the others in the shop, Two guys have to wear gloves while they handle it.
As a Jeweler I have even seen reactions to Surgical Stainless Steel, this is usually impervious to bacteria and acid secretions from our bodies, As it currently stands there are only Two metals that have shown no trace og any one ever displaying any allergic reaction to them and both are extremely resistant to acidic corrosion, these are Titanium either pure or in the T6 4AL alloy (used for jewelry) and Niobium also used for jewelry.
Even the guys that have to handle the tool steel with gloves can’t mar the surface of the Titanium; we just use the pure alloy in the shop.
Perhaps this is the reason the TI gold holds up so well, not only is it highly resistant to abrasion, cutting, oxidation and heat, it is resistant to acid, Not all acid, but perhaps this is why it has become a significant part of the jewelry trade.
I think a better place to concentrate complaints about low cost kits is addressed in a thread I started this morning about the quality of the refills that are supplied with kits, and my guess is they are all about the same. (Garbage) unless you go for the name brands like the Schmidt roller balls I believe is what they are called, other than that I too think it a matter of perceived value and not a true standard, surly one or more of the manufacturers and or resellers/marketers have read this thread, yet none have jumped to the defense of their product, I wonder why???
Ken Ferrell

 

[redfishsc]

Originally posted by bitshird
<br />

I have been reading this thread for a while and I have a question. There has been a lot of talk about the quality of the finishes we get on the different kits, and every once in a while someone brings up body chemistry. Now it seems to me that body chemistry has a lot to do with the issue

You are absolutely correct, Body chemistry does play a major part of plating durability, I was a jewelry manufacturer for many years, and have come across many instances of metals reacting with people in different ways, The main culprit in allergic reactions to Gold and Silver is not the basic metal it's self, rather the metals it is alloyed with, namely copper! I am now around ground and polished steel in a machine shop, we have several people that can touch a piece of freshly precision ground and lapped tool steel and with in an hour or two there are signs of corrosion where they have touched it.
Some folks just have more acid in their systems than others, in some this is caused by medications they are using, I can handle metal all day and no ill effect on the product, so can most of the others in the shop, Two guys have to wear gloves while they handle it.
As a Jeweler I have even seen reactions to Surgical Stainless Steel, this is usually impervious to bacteria and acid secretions from our bodies, As it currently stands there are only Two metals that have shown no trace og any one ever displaying any allergic reaction to them and both are extremely resistant to acidic corrosion, these are Titanium either pure or in the T6 4AL alloy (used for jewelry) and Niobium also used for jewelry.
Even the guys that have to handle the tool steel with gloves can’t mar the surface of the Titanium; we just use the pure alloy in the shop.
Perhaps this is the reason the TI gold holds up so well, not only is it highly resistant to abrasion, cutting, oxidation and heat, it is resistant to acid, Not all acid, but perhaps this is why it has become a significant part of the jewelry trade.
I think a better place to concentrate complaints about low cost kits is addressed in a thread I started this morning about the quality of the refills that are supplied with kits, and my guess is they are all about the same. (Garbage) unless you go for the name brands like the Schmidt roller balls I believe is what they are called, other than that I too think it a matter of perceived value and not a true standard, surly one or more of the manufacturers and or resellers/marketers have read this thread, yet none have jumped to the defense of their product, I wonder why???
Ken Ferrell

Bitshird,

Great info from someone who should know. I don't tend to have a bad effect on platings-- sterling does not bother me nor corrode more than it would sitting in a box, and I have a gold-plated Citizen watch that I have used for 8 years now, and it shows about the amount of wear you would expect for something worn 100-200 days out of the year (which, btw, is a good bit of wear).

I had thought about whether my body chemistry is causing the pitting, but I discarded the thought b/c NONE of the platings from Berea do this (and I use several Berea pens as often as the CSA).

I will keep this in mind if I have customers that seem to destroy pens with corrosion issues (aside from the predictable pitting).

Thanks again for the info.

 

[redfishsc]

Originally posted by redfishsc
<br />

Originally posted by JWW
<br />

I don't understand why their offerings should "bother" you, or anyone. If you don't like it, don't buy it and move on. Those of us here represent a very tiny percentage of the pen kit buying market. I would love to see sales figures from these companies. I'm surmising that low-end 24K Slimlines are the major mover. These companies are simply filling a niche in their catalogs to satisfy a market they see out there. And, we ain't it.

AMEN Again!

Agreed, and that is the exact course of action I took (well, except for the "move on" part, lol).

I was merely doing a good ol 1st Amendment kinda thing, and boy has it produced a busy thread (and a LOADED email inbox with notifications of replies). Personally I like a good discussion like this. I hope nobody takes offense to it except for, perhaps, dishonest pen makers (ie, overcharging for 24K junk)-- none of which I know here-- only a few folks I've seen selling locally.

 

[bitshird]

Redfishsc,
Based on that, my suspicion would be a low standard of cleanliness in the plating plant,
I think in the old days it was called QUALITY CONTROL, even the mighty have fallen though, for the first time in many years Toyota has suffered a loss of owner reliability ratings[] lesssee 30,000.00 car 30.00 pen kit, Could there be a conspiracy ?? or just a general attitude of lets see how far we can drop standards and the suckers will still buy the stuff??[}]
I think it all goes back to the thing about a chain is only as strong as it's weakest link[][:0]
Ken Ferrrell

 

[redfishsc]

Originally posted by bitshird
<br />Redfishsc,
Based on that, my suspicion would be a low standard of cleanliness in the plating plant,
I think in the old days it was called QUALITY CONTROL, even the mighty have fallen though, for the first time in many years Toyota has suffered a loss of owner reliability ratings[] lesssee 30,000.00 car 30.00 pen kit, Could there be a conspiracy ?? or just a general attitude of lets see how far we can drop standards and the suckers will still buy the stuff??[}]
I think it all goes back to the thing about a chain is only as strong as it's weakest link[][:0]
Ken Ferrrell

Ya got that right! Unfortunately for us....[!]

 

[carelg]

i followed this thread with interest as i am a "new kid in the block". I have turned a few pens using 10K gold kits, but wiyh what i have read and experiance, i will not use it again. I agree with redfishc that i want my pens to be durrable, dependable and elegant.

What strike me is the difference in price for the same type of kit between the different suppliers. Is this because some suppliers have a bigger profit margin or are the mechanisms of lower standard? (Remeber the plating option should be titanium gold for all kits.)

i can't just get one or two pens from the different suppliers to test the quality as i have to import all my kits. Shipping cost, duties and taxes add few dollars to the cost of pens.

 

[cdcarter]

Dawn,

I haven't thought of body chemistry re: platings so much as I have regarding finishes. There is no question that the area around the nib receives the most wear, and this is where the finish will go bad if it isn't compatible. For example, my daughter has sweaty hands, and she can't use a pen with friction polish -- goes dull after two days. On the other hand,I can use one for months, especially if it's Mylands with sanding sealer beneath it. Go figure. I'm sure her finishes are more likely to go bad as well, but haven't examined them.