Need some help customizing some pens

[jhudson1977]

Hello everyone...........been looking through the posts for about a week.......first time posting.

I've been turning pens for about a year using a TurnCrafter Pro midi lathe. I've turned probably about fifty pens so far.......most of which were given away. My father just asked me to make 300 Slimline pens for his company's 90th anniversary as he would like to hand them out as Christmas gifts. Along with that though, he would like them customized with a logo with his companies name and dates from 1919 to 2009. So, I gave him a quote assuming I could use the transfer tool from PSI. However, after reading around, I see that might not be a good choice.

Anyone have any suggestions for customizing these logos that does not include something like expensive (since the quote has already been approved) like laser engraving? Normally, this would be an option but 300x$3.00 would cut into profits pretty well. I wouldn't feel right going back and asking for another $900 to do this job. I've read somewhere about the sliding decals that might work well (the old model decals). Any help will be greatly appreciated.

 

[marcruby]

I'm not sure you would save a whole lot of money having decals made. I would eat the cost unless you prices the pens way too low. If that's the case I'd talk to the buyer (your dad) and explain the situation. Mistakes do happen (well, not to me >).

Marc

 

[wolftat]

Have you actually spoken to an engraver? I would guess that you could talk price with an order of that quantity. Otherwise, you will need to have the decals made up and use them. Another option would be to have pen sleeves imprinted for a lot less money.

 

[BRobbins629]

But an engraver - you'll make up the balance in future sales?

 

[Sylvanite]

In quantity 300, you should be able to negotiate a much lower rate. Does the logo wrap around the pen barrel? If so, then you'll need to find an engraver with a rotating attachment, and that makes things more expensive again. There are also printing companies such as Body Billboards, who may be able to help you out. I'm not sure their price will be much better, though. If you can't find anybody local to do the job, drop me a note and I'll try to help you out.

Good luck,
Eric

 

[hunter-27]

If it were me I would go back and re-negotiate the price. Explain that the quality of the laser engraving would far exceed anything else and even if you maybe just split the difference you should come out ok. Unless of course you priced them too low(how much did you quote? If u dont mind sharing.) in the first place(which would be kinda like saying you dont think much of your talent). After talking about it I would imagine he would rather cough up a bit of extra and go for the laser, especially if you were to do 1 of each(decal or transfer and laser and show him the difference. I'd bet he opts for paying the extra. This is all IMO and as such not meant to upset anyone.

 

[Skye]

I'd thoughts are:

1: He's your dad, just tell him you goofed on the price, ask him to comp half and you can eat half as a learning experience.

2: Laser is going to be the only way to go. You'll be ready to hang yourself half way in and the result will probably not be as consistent or professional as laser.

3: Like Bruce said, now may be a good time to look into a cheap engraver. That or if local companies fall through, take Eric up on his offer.

 

[wolftat]

You'll be ready to hang yourself half way in .

Skye, do you aften have these thought while making a pen? Maybe you should try meditating before you go for the rope.:biggrin:

 

[jhudson1977]

Quote was for $3500 with labor and overhead and 10% on materials which comes out to about $11.67 per pen. Adding another $1000 (approximately) for laser engraving - unless I can get the price lower - would make the pens about $15 per pen. They are Slimlines so I hesitate to go much higher than I already have as $15 is what I sell them for retail and obviously this would be whole sale.

I have considered purchasing an engraver for future work but $8,000 is a little out of my price range. Are their much cheaper options?

I have not spoken to anyone local. I was stopping by here first to see what options others have used in the past. Everything keeps going back to laser engraving. Him and I have not really spoken about the whole logo thing yet except that he wants something on the pens since it is his companies 90th anniversary. As of right now, he just wants something simple - probably a one liner but maybe two. Like the name of the company on one line in larger font and the dates on a second line. If I have to eat any of it (which I could do depending on the price), I could write it off as an advertising expense =-) They are going out to 300 people and if I put a sticker on the case - well, you get the idea. Hope no one from the IRS uses this newsgroup!!!

Anyways, thanks everyone for your suggestions. I would really like to eat the expense in an engraver for myself if I have to. But, 1) I do not have a lot of room and 2) they are expensive. I would entertain a model that is small but expensive (to a point). If I have to put a pen in, engrave it, take it out and do another, I can live with that.

 

[Jonathan]

I have never seen an engraver for less than $7,000.00. Is there an option I am missing? Also would renegotiate and explain the quality issue!

 

[alphageek]

Ouch! 300 pens roughly identical slimlines is going to be quite the drag - I hope your up to that challenge first (especially at a VERY thin profit margin).

That being said... If this is for Christmas 2009, you have a lot going for you. Assuming you can get them done timely and can get this done 'non-rotary' which is possible for 2 straight lines of text.. I would start getting quotes. Make sure you make it know when you need the project done and started.... For example - if you can have the pens done by July, but don't need them back till November... And they are all identical, you might be able to find an engraver willing to give you a good volume break since they could use this as 'filler or downtime' work.

You should be able to find something... For example - there are promotional places that will custom laser engrave that many pens for under $4 including the sucky pen... see what they will charge to do your pens. Or there are several laser vendors here that might welcome the filler work.

 

[Skye]

Skye, do you aften have these thought while making a pen? Maybe you should try meditating before you go for the rope.:biggrin:

No, but I've often thought of hanging others.





Just kidding................. kinda.

 

[lmcminn]

Leasing an Engraver

I looked into the cost of a laser engraver several months ago. You're right, they are pretty expensive and cost extra if you want a rotary attachment. You generally cannot get the rotary attachment with the lowest end models either.

If I remember correctly, I think their was a leasing option or companies that had a leasing option. You might want to look into that option. That way you could try the laser engraver out and not be out the full cost of purchaing one. There may even be a lease to own option.

I just did a quick google search on laser engraver to include Lease and found this site: http://www.classact.net/store.asp?pid=15510 . They advertise used engravers and leasing engravers for as low as $99 per month. I hope it was OK to post that URL. I'm in no way associated with this company and just did a google search to find it.

LM

 

[Skye]

They advertise used engravers and leasing engravers for as low as $99 per month.

For the first 6 months anyhow.

Man, those things still cost more than my car.... many times over. It's a steep buy-in.

Hey, I've bought boiled peanuts in Simpsonville!

 

[rjwolfe3]

I love the price on that VL200 but alas no fundage and poor credit, lol.

 

[workinforwood]

If you could just come up with a metal template, you could then tape it to the almost completed pen barrel, dremel out the letters, then use a black inlace to fill in the letters and finish turning the pen to size. How to come up with the template is the issue..the dremel bits and inlace are pretty cheap....but the entire situation would be labor intensive. Just spinning that many slims is a lot of work! Negotiate with your dad..have him cover at least another dollar per pen.

 

[ed4copies]

Send the job to "Pens-R-Us". They'll do it for 50 cents a piece. Nice Bic!

Give the top 50 people hand-made pens. You can do THOSE!! You'll keep your sanity, your dad will save money and impress the people who matter, instead of the whole work force.

 

[jhudson1977]

These are for his customers.......not employees.

 

[ed4copies]

USUALLY!! 80% of your business comes from 20% of your customers. IF he needs 300 pens, to acommodate 20% of his customer base, he can afford ANY price. That's a DARN NICE business!!!

OBVIOUSLY, you and he need to decide what he wants - but 300 hand-made pens IS unusual.

 

[LostintheWoods]

Jason, there are a couple of things in play here that haven't been mentioned by anyone else, but I've never been accused of being shy. First, your base price of $15 for a slimline is, I'll wager, lower than about 90% of the folks on the forum. And second, you are not selling "stock" slimlines--the engraving is extra labor and shop time, and your pen should reflect that in the form of a price increase,albeit a small one. Yes, I understand its for your dad. You need to get with him out in the back yard and explain the situation to him, just as you did with us, and I'll bet that the two of you can come up with a solution that would be palatable for both of you! Good luck!

 

[jhudson1977]

Right...........understood.

However, you bring up an interesting point although a little off topic. I'm quite surprised to "hear" you say that $15 for a Slimline is quite a bit lower than most people would sell them for. Although I've never asked anyone on here.....when I first started selling these, I looked around the Internet quite a bit for pricing on Slimlines. The highest I saw for a simple straight stock Slimline was about $15. Someone else clued me in to this as well by thinking that the profit margin was very slim. I calculate my profit margin at about 54% - which isn't bad (I thought) for wholesale.

What's the average selling price for these and in what forum are you getting this price? My wife makes handmade soaps and candles and I make these and I've had better luck selling Comfort Grips at $20 than Slimlines at $15 at craft shows; but, that is about the only forum I've attempted to sell them at as of yet. We have a website that she does fairly well with, I just haven't added any of the pens to it yet - it's on my list of to-do's.

 

[brokenbit]

I just finish 100 slim line for my sil
The first was fun but last was even more fun

jhudson1977 give me a e-mail me, I can give you some tips

Brokenbit

Bernie

 

[RussFairfield]

I'm with Ed. He should be giving a nice handcrafted pen to his top 50 customers, and a plastic pen with the logo stamped on it to the rest of them.

Following this line of thinking, I would recommend a nicer and larger pen than a SlimLine for 2 reasons. The first reason is that the best customers will appreciate getting something "special". The 2nd is that engraving on something as small as a stock SlimLine is a waste of time. The engraving will look much better and be more readable on a larger pen.

 

[TellicoTurning]

Right...........understood.

However, you bring up an interesting point although a little off topic. I'm quite surprised to "hear" you say that $15 for a Slimline is quite a bit lower than most people would sell them for. Although I've never asked anyone on here.....when I first started selling these, I looked around the Internet quite a bit for pricing on Slimlines. The highest I saw for a simple straight stock Slimline was about $15. Someone else clued me in to this as well by thinking that the profit margin was very slim. I calculate my profit margin at about 54% - which isn't bad (I thought) for wholesale.

What's the average selling price for these and in what forum are you getting this price? My wife makes handmade soaps and candles and I make these and I've had better luck selling Comfort Grips at $20 than Slimlines at $15 at craft shows; but, that is about the only forum I've attempted to sell them at as of yet. We have a website that she does fairly well with, I just haven't added any of the pens to it yet - it's on my list of to-do's.

Jason,
Even in my market which I find to be a little lower than when I was in the big city, I sell slimlines for $20 and $25 depending on what they are made from. What do you use as a shop rate? Based on your profit margin calculation above, I'm guessing you have it set pretty low.

 

[RussFairfield]

Another option that I have seen used is to not put any engraving on the pen, and put those given to the best customers (50?) in one of those nice wooden boxes with the engraving on the lid. Give the rest of them a cardboard box, with a sticker label on the box.

 

[hewunch]

I just started using laser printer decals. If you are ok with a CA finish they can be buried in the finish and you are set. Here is one I recently did.

 

[jttheclockman]

I just started using laser printer decals. If you are ok with a CA finish they can be buried in the finish and you are set. Here is one I recently did.

Hewhunch

Did you have any problems with putting CA over acrylic??? Did it polish up as usual???? Any little tricks doing this you want to share????