Micromesh frustrations

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jgerman

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Jul 26, 2016
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Baltimore
Hi guys, back with more newbie questions.

I used my micromesh pads on some ebony, now I can't use them on any light woods. They're leaving a gray cast on almost all other pen barrels.

I've tried going at them with soap, water, and an old toothbrush, no dice. I scrubbed them but then when I go to sand with them... black slurry on the blank.

Did I ruin these pads? Should I keep one set for dark woods and another for light? How do I keep them from getting loaded with dust :(
 
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KenV

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Oct 28, 2005
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Jeremy,

I never have that problem because I never use micromesh on anything but the pen finish.

I take wood to P800 or P1000 with conventional abrasives and bring the micromesh out to polish the finish.

The P800 or P1000 is throw away if used for woods that can color. Bloodwood and ebony are two that cause problems with transfer.

Mixed woods skew for final cuts or negative rake scraper then work the finishing materials.
 

jttheclockman

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Feb 22, 2005
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19,082
Location
NJ, USA.
Hi guys, back with more newbie questions.

I used my micromesh pads on some ebony, now I can't use them on any light woods. They're leaving a gray cast on almost all other pen barrels.

I've tried going at them with soap, water, and an old toothbrush, no dice. I scrubbed them but then when I go to sand with them... black slurry on the blank.

Did I ruin these pads? Should I keep one set for dark woods and another for light? How do I keep them from getting loaded with dust :(


Not sure what MM pads you have. But anyway My suggestion is to not use MM on bare wood. That is what sandpaper is for. When you say black slurry this also sends a tingling effect. Are you using MM pads with a liquid of some sort on a wood blank??? Hope not.:) (unless it is a lemon oil or something to that effect)

You may need to explain your finishing process for us to better help you
 

Sappheiros

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Sep 26, 2015
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Chicago, Illinois
Generally, for micromesh, when using the pads with any material there isn't any bleed. One question I have for you is whether or not you were doing wet polishing. I keep a bin of water on the side and dip the pads in the water before taking the pad to the blank. If you dry polish, if you hold the pad for too long on the blank, the micromesh heats up and can leave black streaks of polish on the material. What does this grey cast you're getting look like?
 

SteveG

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Dec 21, 2009
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Eugene, Oregon 97404
If you are sanding unfinished wood, staying with dry sanding is the way to go. You can find disposable abrasives that go really fine, and also some foam backed abrasives that are reusable for a longer period. Two that come to mind that I have found at Exotic Blanks are their assortment of finish sanding pack (paper), and what they call "Stabilized Wood Finishing Kit" (foam backed) that I would recommend for very fine, dry, unfinished wood sanding.

A lot of turners also use the Abranet mesh sanding sheets (the mesh allows ease of clearing sanding dust, if using dry, and work very well for wet sanding finished wood and/or acrylics, PR, etc.

Personally, I only use micromesh for wet sanding finished wood or plastics.

ANY of the abrasives will readily transfer color to the next piece for some woods (bloodwood, for example), and you need to learn these woods to avoid inadvertent transfer of color, just when you do not want it!
 

JD Combs Sr

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Owingsville, KY
As already stated, MM should only be used on wood that already has a finish on it such as CA. They are a 9 step polishing system not for sanding. Yes the first 2 or 3 grits will remove material but I use them sparingly. With a good 320(some folks go higher) grit smooth sanding and the application of the final finish, CA in my case, I run through all 9 grits making 4 to five passes for each grit. If the CA goes on good I have at times skipped the first 3, occasionally even 4 grits and still have a great result. However, YMMV.
 

jgerman

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Jul 26, 2016
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Location
Baltimore
I'm still feeling my way through this so I've done both wet and dry sanding with the MM.

The gray cast is a haze that I think is left by the dirty slurry. On some light pens I see dark particles embedded in the blank after a certain point.

I've got two different sets of MM, the 9 color pack and the "plastic finishing pack" that is 6 pads with different colors on each side. So far I've only used the second on acrylics.

I haven't found sandpaper above 600 locally that isn't the black wet/dry paper, which seems to leave tiny bits in my blank as well. I don't recall if I used that wet or dry so I can try again dry and see if that helps.

So far the best finish I've been able to achieve was polishing all the way to 12k with the micromesh on bare wood, applying CA, then re-polishing with the final 3 grits of MM (and plastic polish). If I'm just using MM for the CA finish I wonder if I even need the bigger pads versus the small colored "plastic finishing" pads.
 

randyrls

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Feb 2, 2006
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Harrisburg, PA 17112
I haven't found sandpaper above 600 locally that isn't the black wet/dry paper, which seems to leave tiny bits in my blank as well. I don't recall if I used that wet or dry so I can try again dry and see if that helps.

Jeremy; On wood, you only need to dry sand up to about 600 grit. You can certainly use wet/dry sandpaper dry. Look in Auto parts stores for wet/dry paper up to 2000 grit. After that, apply CA and then wet sand with the MM. Sand at medium (1500RPM) speed, MM at low (500 RPM) speed.
 

MTViper

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Jul 22, 2009
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Clyde, Texas
I'm in the minority here. I use MM on bare wood to polish it before I put on my Pens Plus finish. I only dry sand on both wood and acrylic. I tried wet sanding and, for me, it never made a difference in the quality of the finish. I only do a CA finish if absolutely necessary, but that's just personal preference.

I think that MM is probably ruined. I'd start fresh.
 

jttheclockman

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Randy hit the nail on the head. There is absolutely no reason to sand above 600 grit when doing a film finish of any kind on a pen blank. You will not feel the difference between 600 and 1200 once that film finish such as CA goes on. Even if you wax and do not use film finish. Now if you are wet sanding bare wood with water you are introducing the one element that can ruin the blank. The whole idea is to work with the driest blank possible because it causes all kinds of problems later.

Here is paper that goes to 800 grit for wood. There is even higher wood sandpaper grits. I usually go to 400 grit and rarely 600 grit.

www.stewmac.com/Luthier_Tools/Tools_by_Job/Tools_for_Sanding/3M_Gold_Fre-Cut_Sandpaper.html
 
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jgerman

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Jul 26, 2016
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I'll stop at 400-600 on my next pen and see how it goes.

What about stabilized woods? Should they be treated differently?
 

donstephan

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Jul 24, 2016
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Cincinnati Ohio
After reading numerous times on flat woodworking forums "there's no need to sand beyond 150/180" I decided to test for myself. I found a short piece of highly figured cherry and hand planed both sides to get an extremely smooth surface. Then a crosscut into two equal pieces. On one, I hand sanded the planed surface well with 600 grit Frecut Gold paper; the other I hand sanded well with 180 grit, probably 3M paper. The same side of both samples received several coats over several days of P&L 38 alkyd varnish thinned 50% with mineral spirits. The other side of both samples was French polished to a high gloss with fresh dewaxed blond shellac from Homestead Finishing. It's been more than a year, and I still can't tell the difference between the two samples with either finish, and I haven't found any other woodworker or experienced finisher that can tell the difference.

I still sand to 320 or 400, but only because the finer sanding dust helps me find tiny scratches in the wood.

Has anyone made blind tests of their own?
 

KenV

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Juneau, Alaska.
I do take sanding further than needed for film finishes. Two reasons

It lets me spot scratches or tear out that need to be cleared up

I use oil finishes on a lot of turnings and higher grit numbers results in a more attractive feel. So I cultivate good abrasives habits on all my turnings.


Note there are 2 grit numbering systems in use. CAMI and P

CAMI is a US standard

P is a european (eurozone) standard.

Differences are mostly above 320

Quality of abrasive makes a difference too. Cheap abrasives tend to have a few bigger pieces hiding on the sheet.


I treat stabalized woods as I would any dense wood. The resins are not uniformly distributed, and there are missed places in the resin distribution.
 

farmer

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Jun 16, 2012
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807
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NV
Sanding and saw dust

After reading numerous times on flat woodworking forums "there's no need to sand beyond 150/180" I decided to test for myself. I found a short piece of highly figured cherry and hand planed both sides to get an extremely smooth surface. Then a crosscut into two equal pieces. On one, I hand sanded the planed surface well with 600 grit Frecut Gold paper; the other I hand sanded well with 180 grit, probably 3M paper. The same side of both samples received several coats over several days of P&L 38 alkyd varnish thinned 50% with mineral spirits. The other side of both samples was French polished to a high gloss with fresh dewaxed blond shellac from Homestead Finishing. It's been more than a year, and I still can't tell the difference between the two samples with either finish, and I haven't found any other woodworker or experienced finisher that can tell the difference.

I still sand to 320 or 400, but only because the finer sanding dust helps me find tiny scratches in the wood.

Has anyone made blind tests of their own?


All of my cuts are done using a live cutter on the tool posts on my lathes .
I turn my lathe off and sand with the grain.
Normally I only sand to 320.
Anymore it seems all of my work has inlays and the importance of clean sand paper is becoming key to making sure I don't get ebony sanding dust into the maple next to it ..
There are some projects because of the size and the woods natural colors and the different wood inlays are so small, any sanding at all will drag dark colored saw dust and mash it into the lighter colored wood next to it.

My point in all this is a razor sharp cutting tool is extremely important .
And sanding wood with the lathe on, on certain woods or if the project has inlays is a bad Habit.

Problems also happen when one part just need sanding and apiece next to it needs to be polished out before apply the finish .
And different hardness of the materials inlayed next to each other.
Getting low spots in your work.

Right now I am only use west systems 105/ 207
And Solezar UV finish.
 
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