Micro Mesh-Is it really needed?

[HoratioHornblower]

I don't have a buffing wheel so this isn't really in comparison to that, but almost since I have started I have been using MM to polish my pens. I have been thinking in the back of my head for awhile that maybe MM was not really needed as long as I have plastic polishes, but I kept using it as a safety measure. Well, today I decided to try sanding with 600, 1000, and 1500 Klingspor and then use Novus #3,2 then the Plasitx polish. After doing so, I really can't tell that much of a difference, if any at all from using the MM! I just wanted to throw this thought out there and start up a general discussion. I know there has been thoughts on methods of polishing over and over, but I don't believe I have ever seen someone say that they have both eliminated MM and a buffing wheel. I did notice some more than normal "deep scratches" that most likely came from less cross sanding, so if I make sure to do a really good job on the grits that I do use, then that should go away. Most people don't notice these scratches, but I try to get rid of them anyway. Thoughts anyone?

David

 

[InvisibleMan]

I've been wondering that exact thing lately. Doing kitless pens now, I often have to just touch something up here or there - usually around threads. Sometimes I've just hit the area with 400, 600, then plastic polish (One Step in my case) and can't tell any difference between that area and the rest of the pen.

Would be a time saver, but I haven't tried skipping MM for an entire pen yet.

 

[frank123]

Sometimes I use MM, it has its place and works particularly well on brass and such once it's been polished down to a basically dull but mark free surface with abrasive paper and just needs some shine.

What I usually do for polishing just about everything that I polish on the lathe is go through 2000 grit (without without any grit between the 1000 and 2000), then polish with HF green abrasive polishing compound (stick) followed by some Dupont No.7 rubbing compound and then Renaissance wax.

Works fine that way for wood, lacquer, Krylon crystal clear, CA (which I usually avoid lately), and all the plastics and aluminum and brass.

I just rub the polishing sticks or compounds directly on the part at fairly low speed then use a piece of soft cloth against it at high speed to polish it, but I've also used paper towels equally well if you worry about the safety factor.. Mirror finish every time.

For reasonably smooth metal (to about 600 maybe) I've also just gone through some clover valve grinding compound, HF green, Turtle wax rubbing compound followed by DuPont No. 7 and it gives a very nice fast finish. I don't think I'd use the Clover on anything but metal, it's awful greasy.

FWIW, if you have these sandpapers and abrasives and polishes, you can also do lexan headlight restorations, it's amazingly easy, just like finishing a pen but by hand with a pad instead of on a lathe.

 

[watch_art]

All I use is 320, 400, 600, 800, and 2K wet or dry from walmart. high speed with water dripping constantly. final polish with a paper towel and maguire's #2 swirl remover. great stuff.

Meguiars Fine Cut Cleaner #2 (16 oz), Meguiars M0216 : Meguiars Polish : Car Polish

 

[IPD_Mr]

Look at your work under magnification and fluorescent lighting and see if you feel the same way.

 

[tool-man]

You might check this earlier thread on the subject.
http://www.penturners.org/forum/f28/usable-grit-comparison-chart-55038/

There is a nice chart which compares the grits of many of the popular products.

 

[Timebandit]

Look at your work under magnification and fluorescent lighting and see if you feel the same way.

Agreed. I check all of my pens under a 3X loupe and you would be surprised what is left behind. Will the average person notice this? Probably not. But you might get that one guy that uses a loupe and finds these problems and goes to calling you back for a fix or a refund. Always check your work under magnification(3x at the least)before your product leaves your hands. Better safe than sorry.

 

[ghostrider]

I haven't used MM in many awhile. Last year I started using wet/dry sandpaper up to 2000 grit. Then I either buff, or Plastic Polish.

 

[HoratioHornblower]

Look at your work under magnification and fluorescent lighting and see if you feel the same way.

Actually, the difference is not all THAT great, but there is a difference. I guess I will stick with the MM as it only adds 3-5 minutes. I still have scratches though, which is frustrating. It looks to be where the sand paper initially touches the blank.

 

[Kaspar]

I think MM is still necessary. Albeit with magnification, I find scratch marks from anything less than a full 2400 to 12,000 treatment. I believe what Novus Three does is polish the insides of any imperfections. If that's the case, and that works for you, fine. No one but a penturner would know to look for it. However, the "blanket, then vertical sand" approach I use with the micromesh requires no more than ten minutes and I prefer to be sure that even if someone put my pen under a microscope, they won't find a thing.

 

[HoratioHornblower]

I think MM is still necessary. Albeit with magnification, I find scratch marks from anything less than a full 2400 to 12,000 treatment. I believe what Novus Three does is polish the insides of any imperfections. If that's the case, and that works for you, fine. No one but a penturner would know to look for it. However, the "blanket, then vertical sand" approach I use with the micromesh requires no more than ten minutes and I prefer to be sure that even if someone put my pen under a microscope, they won't find a thing.

See, I was sanding lengthwise with the MM, and I was STILL finding at least a scratch here or there. I would have to have it in the right light, but it would be there. Maybe I need to spend more time lengthwise, or maybe Klingspor sandpaper is not consistant in its grit sizes. Hmmmm...any thoughts?

 

[Kaspar]

See, I was sanding lengthwise with the MM, and I was STILL finding at least a scratch here or there. I would have to have it in the right light, but it would be there. Maybe I need to spend more time lengthwise, or maybe Klingspor sandpaper is not consistant in its grit sizes. Hmmmm...any thoughts?

There may be something in that. One of the nice things about MM is its consistency in grit. There are some top quality sandpapers out there that also have a high standard of consistency. I'm not familiar with Klingspor. (Heh, sounds like a character from Lindsey's Voyage to Arcturus. )

 

[DestinTurnings]

I use standard wet/dry paper and sand 400, 600, 1000, 1500, 2500 then use Meguires scratch remover car polish and then if I really want, I will hit with a carnuba wax finish. I have looked at my blanks under magnification and it looks great. I do find scratches around the ends occasionally or when using a new piece of sandpaper but I just hit it with the last grit paper for the most part and then buff again with the polish.

I don't think that the MM is worth the effort for all the grits.

Just my 2¢.

 

[nativewooder]

I think it depends on your personal goals. If you are content to sell $20 to $50 pens to whomever wants to buy them, then use whatever strikes your fancy to give you a decent finish. But...in case you ever wonder how those pros sell pens for hundreds and thousands of $$$, go to a real pen show and watch all the buyers bring out magnifying devices and maybe you'll understand.:wink:

 

[Holz Mechaniker]

I use MM on Tru Stone. It was the only thing to get any shine on the blank
but that is the only time I find a NEED.

 

[Timebandit]

I usually sand through 600 grit Abranet, then go to the first three grits of micro-mesh. 1500,1800,2400, then move on to the buffing wheels to get the rest.

 

[Smitty37]

Hmmmm

I usually use micromesh on man made materials....and most of the time that is the last step. I buff lightly but don't usually polish. But and maybe this is important - I don't really sell pens, most I give away. Some woods I also use wet micromesh and follow with a couple of coats of a polish and buff lightly with soft cloth. I need to get a buffing wheel setup one of these days.

 

[DestinTurnings]

I think it depends on your personal goals. If you are content to sell $20 to $50 pens to whomever wants to buy them, then use whatever strikes your fancy to give you a decent finish. But...in case you ever wonder how those pros sell pens for hundreds and thousands of $$$, go to a real pen show and watch all the buyers bring out magnifying devices and maybe you'll understand.:wink:

Not sure if this is directed at me but rest assured I sell plenty of pens that cost more than $20. While I do still sell those at craft fairs and such, and they may not have a scratch free finish down to the micron level, I am a supplier to a high end store in Texas. My finish using the methods I previously listed produce a finish that is equal to a micromesh process or buffing system.

I do go to "real pen shows" and have sold pens to buyers with loupes. They didn't seem to object to the quality.

 

[HoratioHornblower]

I think the problems after looking at the posted grit chart (thanks!!!) was that I was going to the Novus polishes in the wrong order, and I think that is where the scratches are coming from. Time to experiment!

David

 

[el_d]

I retired my MM. Don't use it at all anymore.

Woodchuck, 400,600,800,1200, wenol metal polish and plastX. .......... And a pass thru the polishing wheel.

 

[Kaspar]

I would like to move to buffing wheels, but, for reasons I won't into (space, among them) it's not practical at this time. So for now, MM.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Ot her techniques can work just fine. But for consistent results with minimal time involved, I think MM is the penturners dream come true.

 

[bradh]

I sand the wood from 220 thru 12000MM, CA, wait a day, then MM 1500 thru 12000, then buff....... because I can see the difference.

 

[KenV]

Question -- the grit tables show that the CAMI (US number system) and the FINA European "P" grit numbers are significntly different above 220 -- And Micro Mesh has it's own number system.

From the this thread I suspect that people are using numbers as if they are CAMI - ie 400 is a CAMI number and P400 is not.

Are folks using Just the CAMI numbers -- or not putting the "P" with the grit numbers?