mandrel-less problems turning

Signed-In Members Don't See This Ad

wizical

Member
Joined
Jun 14, 2007
Messages
423
Location
Los Angeles, ca, USA.
ok,

So I tried turning a couple of pens tonight without the mandrel. And I have a couple of questions

1) When I started making my cuts, the blank would just stop on my tool, is this normal. I made the tailstock snug enough, but any tighter i would notice some flexing.

2) I can use the bushings i buy for my pens. I know i cant use slimlines or comforts, but i should be able to use the other ones for cigars and jr. gents

thanks,
 
Signed-In Members Don't See This Ad

stevers

Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2005
Messages
2,991
Location
Bullhead City, Az., USA.
Yes, you should be able to use any bushing that steps down into the tube, Gent, Americana, Cigar, etc. If you choose to do slims or comforts, several folks here sell BCB's. (between center bushings)

If the bushings fit the dead centers correctly, you should be able to crank down on them pretty good. There should be little, if any flexing. The bushings should self center on the dead centers and you should be able to get them tight enough to avoid slipping.
 
Last edited:

stevers

Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2005
Messages
2,991
Location
Bullhead City, Az., USA.
Try a search on BCB's. I believe it was JohnnyCNC that sold some. Try a search and you should come up with others. Also check the classifieds.

Someone else should chime in soon here too.
 

ldb2000

Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2007
Messages
5,381
Location
Laurence Harbor, NJ, USA.
ok,

So I tried turning a couple of pens tonight without the mandrel. And I have a couple of questions

1) When I started making my cuts, the blank would just stop on my tool, is this normal. I made the tail stock snug enough, but any tighter i would notice some flexing.

2) I can use the bushings i buy for my pens. I know i cant use slimlines or comforts, but i should be able to use the other ones for cigars and jr. gents

thanks,


Keven , what exactly was flexing , if your blank is end trimmed correctly there should be no flex anywhere , the brass tubes should take all the pressure evenly and you should be able to tighten down the tail stock tight enough to be turned without stopping .
 

leehljp

Member Liaison
Joined
Feb 6, 2005
Messages
9,314
Location
Tunica, Mississippi,
ok,
1) When I started making my cuts, the blank would just stop on my tool, is this normal. I made the tailstock snug enough, but any tighter i would notice some flexing.

2) I can use the bushings i buy for my pens. I know i cant use slimlines or comforts, but i should be able to use the other ones for cigars and jr. gents
thanks,

You didn't say directly but it seems indicated from #2 that you did _not_ use bushings for turning. You should ALWAYS use bushings for turning the blank down to near size.

Use the bushings that you have on hand for that kit. They work fine, unless the bushing has a problem such as OOR or Off Center hole drilled.

"I made the tailstock snug enough, but any tighter i would notice some flexing."

If you notice flexing, it is toooo tight.

If it is flexing with bushings inserted, then the bushings are too loose in the tube and newer/different bushings would seem to be necessary.

If bushings are not used, there is a strong chance of reaming or ruining the tube, and possibly cracking the blank from the pressure.
 
Last edited:

wizical

Member
Joined
Jun 14, 2007
Messages
423
Location
Los Angeles, ca, USA.
let me rephrase,

I use bushings when I am turning my cigars, Jr. Gents.

so the main problem that would cause OOR is bad bushings?

thanks for all the input
 

leehljp

Member Liaison
Joined
Feb 6, 2005
Messages
9,314
Location
Tunica, Mississippi,
let me rephrase,

I use bushings when I am turning my cigars, Jr. Gents.

so the main problem that would cause OOR is bad bushings?

thanks for all the input

First thought would be bushings drilled off center. Check with a caliper.

If that is not it, check the tail stock alignment with head stock.

I could be wrong here and have not experienced this, but here goes: Another idea concerning the bushings - I have read here a couple of times that in some kits that are the same basic pen with different names from different vendors such as CSUSA or PSI, the bushings between vendors can be something like .002 or .003 difference. If this is so, using a CSUSA pen kit with a PSI bushing can cause some wobble or OOR. (I am just guessing at this as a possibility.)

But I am puzzled with the "flexing" idea. I understand this happening with "A" mandrels but have not even seen a hint of it in the last year of mandrel-less turning. Exactly where is it flexing?

Last winter, I did try an experiment to see if I could turn without a bushing by starting with a square blank (a burl at that). I did by taking small bites with a sharp round nose scraper. I did catch the edge and stop it from turning a couple of times until I go the "feel" down. But after that, no problem. Even with the scraper, I took it down to the cigar size that I was working on - and without flaring the brass tube. So, it didn't take as much tail stock pressure as one would think, but it did take concentrating on my techniques.

I don't recommend doing it without a bushing except as an experiment to see if one can do it. :wink: But I did put quite a bit of pressure on bushing during turnings at the beginning of my mandrel-less turning.

What all of this comes down to - is that the exact descriptions of using something like this is subjective to each individual's definition of too much, too little and just right. For most, it takes experimenting to get the right feel, but it is time well spent.
 

rjwolfe3

Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2008
Messages
8,352
Location
Mansfield, Ohio, USA.
Steve,
Have you figured one of the other bushing makers yet? I know JohnnyCNC said eventually he will be back but I hadn't heard of anyone else making the bushings. I know I have asked several times and even got the sizes of Johnny's to try to make my own but never got around to it.
 

Russianwolf

Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2007
Messages
5,690
Location
Martinsburg, WV, USA.
Johnny will not be back in the bushing business for the rest of the year, if even then.

He was one of the ones that was flooded out along the Mississippi and is slowly putting his home back together. They lost just about everything. see here http://www.penturners.org/forum/showthread.php?t=36476

I use my stock Baron bushing to turn between centers all the time with no ill effects. One thing that I've found that I have to do occasionally is to rough up the faces of the centers a bit. just take a piece of 120 grit paper and sand the points to remove anything that may have built up and give them some grip.

I also have had them sit and spin every time I've touched the blanks, only to figure out that the tubes had come loose in the blanks. Double check that.

The steps I take and they work for me:

1) drill and glue the tubes.
2) put between center (no bushings) and turn round with the skew.
3) trim/face the blanks
4) turn between centers (with bushings)

Oh one other thing. What lathe do you have? It wasn't clear in the first post what you are worried about flexing. But in my mind the part that would be the most likely to flex in turning between centers is the bed of the lathe IF you have a lathe that has a tube/pipe bed.
 
Last edited:

wizical

Member
Joined
Jun 14, 2007
Messages
423
Location
Los Angeles, ca, USA.
First thought would be bushings drilled off center. Check with a caliper.

If that is not it, check the tail stock alignment with head stock.

I could be wrong here and have not experienced this, but here goes: Another idea concerning the bushings - I have read here a couple of times that in some kits that are the same basic pen with different names from different vendors such as CSUSA or PSI, the bushings between vendors can be something like .002 or .003 difference. If this is so, using a CSUSA pen kit with a PSI bushing can cause some wobble or OOR. (I am just guessing at this as a possibility.)

But I am puzzled with the "flexing" idea. I understand this happening with "A" mandrels but have not even seen a hint of it in the last year of mandrel-less turning. Exactly where is it flexing?

Last winter, I did try an experiment to see if I could turn without a bushing by starting with a square blank (a burl at that). I did by taking small bites with a sharp round nose scraper. I did catch the edge and stop it from turning a couple of times until I go the "feel" down. But after that, no problem. Even with the scraper, I took it down to the cigar size that I was working on - and without flaring the brass tube. So, it didn't take as much tail stock pressure as one would think, but it did take concentrating on my techniques.

I don't recommend doing it without a bushing except as an experiment to see if one can do it. :wink: But I did put quite a bit of pressure on bushing during turnings at the beginning of my mandrel-less turning.

What all of this comes down to - is that the exact descriptions of using something like this is subjective to each individual's definition of too much, too little and just right. For most, it takes experimenting to get the right feel, but it is time well spent.

Thanks for the advice, I have purchased a disc sander to help in regards to squaring my pen blanks better, im also going to use for many other things. But this is a great additiong to my shop. I think i will notice a huge improvement in my pens after this. thanks again for the advice from everyone
 

Rifleman1776

Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2004
Messages
7,330
Location
Mountain Home, Arkansas, USA.
Can only echo what others have said. A single half of a pen, with a brass tube in it should not flex with anything less than a hammer blow. Can't imagine what is "flexing". Standard bushings will center on the dead (drive) and live (tailstock) centers.
Whatever your problem is, I believe you are not describing it well. Done right (it is very simple), mandrel-less pen turning is a breeze and a joy.
 
Top Bottom