Mandrel and cutting questions...

[punkinn]

Remember, I *am* a newbie...

I now have two mandrels; the basic one from CSUSA that comes in their starter kit, and the "adjustable" one from Woodcraft (I think it was). Neither mandrel will hold the bushings and blanks for, say the European pens or the Cigar pens; only the blanks/bushings for slimlines will fit. It's just not long enough. Am I missing something obvious or doing something wrong? I have the "adjustable" mandrel set as long as it will go, I think! I really hate having to turn a half a pen at a time... I like to see both blanks at once. Help?

And while I'm at it... When (attempting?) turning square blanks to the round, many many many times my gouge will catch the blank and stop it from turning. I try to make a *really* light cut, and consciously rub the bevel first, yet still I frequently get the wood catching. It makes me nuts! What am I doing wrong here?

Thanks in advance for your help.
Nancy

 

[ed4copies]

Ah, yes, we all remember those days!

First, you may want to use a bigger gouge-the contact point is larger and you are less likely to catch.

Woodcraft sells a "cheapy" mandrel that is quite long, it will accomodate any kit I have ever tried.

If you keep "catching", tighten the mandrel nut tighter until you get a little more experience. After reaching "round", loosen the nut again so you don't distort the final pen (altho I am not sure this can really happen, lots of input on this site says it can).

Most important, keep trying. Some day it will all "click" and be easy.

 

[JimGo]

Originally posted by ed4copies
First, you may want to use a bigger gouge-the contact point is larger and you are less likely to catch.

Even better, try a skew! It is a little tricky at first, but once you get used to it, you'll like it. It leave a nice surface on the blank that can be easily touched up starting with 220 grit sandpaper most of the time.

Ed's suggestion about the catching is a good one; I never use any mechanical means to tighten the knurled nut (i.e., I don't use pliers or anything), but some times on particularly nasty blanks I will have to stop and hand-tighten the nut pretty firmly. As Ed alluded, the nut can induce be blanks to spin out of round if over tightened. Whether this is due to the mandrel bending or due to the surfaces of the bushings and nut not being perfectly square is a matter of debate here, but regardless, the end result is the same. So, like Ed said, be sure to loosen the nut before you start your final shaping.

I don't have either of the mandrels you mentioned, so I can't help there. I have the standard Woodcraft mandrel, and it's plenty long for my pens; in fact, I usually have to use spacers it's so long, even on some of the longer pens.

Good luck!

 

[punkinn]

Jim, Ed....

I have tried a skew... and have a lot of trouble making it behave. [] Maybe I'll keep trying. You use a skew even to start with on square blanks?

I must be doing something wrong with my mandrel(s). []

Thank you very much. I appreciate it!
Nancy

 

[Rifleman1776]

After this reply, you make want to take up another hobby. For less catches use high speed and a <b>small</b> gouge. Less contact, less catch. I believe in tightening the knurled knob fairly tight. But before doing this, be sure you have squared the ends or you can bend the mandrel.
p.s. the skew is difficult to master, use the gouges until you are a little more advanced.

 

[ed4copies]

Nancy,

After you turn for a while (read lots of pens), you develop more confidence (after all, you have not been SERIOUSLY hurt, so what can go wrong). At that point, you have also used a skew for other things (make a few rolling pins or simple peppermills). THEN, try using it. For now, back to a bigger roughing gouge. (I used this for many, many pens-it works).

Yes, we do use a skew, even on square blanks. (If you do try this, use at least a 3/4"-it's points are farther away from the "sweet spot", so a major catch is harder to engineer!!!).

EXPERIENCE is the only real answer. keep on trying!!![][][][][]

 

[ed4copies]

Originally posted by Rifleman
<br />After this reply, you make want to take up another hobby. For less catches use high speed and a <b>small</b> gouge. Less contact, less catch. I believe in tightening the knurled knob fairly tight. But before doing this, be sure you have squared the ends or you can bend the mandrel.

OK, Frank, them's fitin' words!!![}][}]

A small gouge has a sharp point (ever try to turn with an eighth inch gouge, it's scary!!!) A large roughing gouge (1" or better) has a bowl shaped contact - less chance to get hurt.

Actually, you will be limited by the tools you actually HAVE. Try them all and see what makes YOU comfortable.

 

[gerryr]

The best thing to do is get some cheapo wood that you can chuck between centers and have at it with the skew. I had a lot of trouble using any of my three gouges when first starting a blank. I got some cheap wood and just practiced with the skew. I now use it for all straight grain wood, start to finish. I can generally start sanding at 320, only occasionally at 220. Find or buy a copy of either of Alan Lacer's videos on using a skew. Practice and watching someone who really knows how to use one made a world of difference to me.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Originally posted by ed4copies
<br />

Originally posted by Rifleman
<br />After this reply, you make want to take up another hobby. For less catches use high speed and a <b>small</b> gouge. Less contact, less catch. I believe in tightening the knurled knob fairly tight. But before doing this, be sure you have squared the ends or you can bend the mandrel.

OK, Frank, them's fitin' words!!![}][}]

A small gouge has a sharp point (ever try to turn with an eighth inch gouge, it's scary!!!) A large roughing gouge (1" or better) has a bowl shaped contact - less chance to get hurt.

Actually, you will be limited by the tools you actually HAVE. Try them all and see what makes YOU comfortable.

I only do my "fitin' " on Saturday nites. [] But I knew some would disagree. A friend in my woodturning club, who is a master professional turner, gave me the advice I passed on about small gouge = less catches. He turns bowls from stumps and manzanita burls and other rough and irregular stuff. He always starts with about a 1/2" gouge. Less contact = less catch. Depending on the wood, I'll start a pen blank with my 1/2" gouge or, sometimes, the 1". As soon as I reach nearly round, I'll switch to the 1" skew. The actual answer is 'whatever works for you'.

 

[JimGo]

I use my skew from start to finish. I have a 1/2" that I can sharpen pretty well with my el-cheapo wet griner from Sears. I have a 1" that I also use some times, but I like the small one for most of my work.

I started with the skew almost right away when I started (I too am a novice...only started turning about a year ago). I figured, I kept hearing from others that it is difficult to master, and I figured what the heck, may as well start with the most difficult tool first. I still blow up the occasional blank, and still struggle with other issues some times, but I really like the skew. Haven't tried the gouge at all since I got my first successful pen with the skew.

 

[Ron in Drums PA]

Nancy
Here is a link to Alan Lacer's site which has a great article on skews including how to round a square with a skew.

http://www.alanlacer.com/articles/skew.html

The trick on getting less catches with any tool is
A) sharp tools
B) holding the tool in the proper angle to the wood
c) rub the bevel.



Ed
I completely agree with you. I have a large roughing gouge with deep flutes and I use the sides like a skew. I use this tool for 90%+ of my turned pens. The other tool I use is a 1/2" skew.

 

[Ron in Drums PA]

Frank, I consider...
A 1/2" bowl gouge is a big tool.
A 1" roughing gouge is a big tool.
A 1" skew is a big tool.

What size do you consider big?

 

[punkinn]

Originally posted by Ron in Drums PA
<br />Nancy
Here is a link to Alan Lacer's site which has a great article on skews including how to round a square with a skew.

http://www.alanlacer.com/articles/skew.html

The trick on getting less catches with any tool is
A) sharp tools
B) holding the tool in the proper angle to the wood
c) rub the bevel.

Ron,

Thank you! That looks like a great site. I will definitely read up and give my skew another try (after a tune up at the grinding wheel, it sounds like). []

Nancy

 

[Rifleman1776]

Originally posted by Ron in Drums PA
<br />Frank, I consider...
A 1/2" bowl gouge is a big tool.
A 1" roughing gouge is a big tool.
A 1" skew is a big tool.

What size do you consider big?

Good question. Matter of personal perspectives. Since you ask, I belive 1" up is big. Anything smaller is pretty small and can be used for delicate work. I have a 2" (maybe 2 1/2") roughing gouge and that is REALLY BIG, I almost never have use for it. My mini-tools, bought specifically for pens and other small projects, are likewise almost never used. The right, or best, size to use is what works for you. BTW, for whoever said it, a round gouge properly sharpened, whatever size doesn't have any "points".

 

[Ron in Drums PA]

I have a 2" (maybe 2 1/2") roughing gouge and that is REALLY BIG,

I would call that the monster gouge!

 

[Rifleman1776]

Originally posted by Ron in Drums PA
<br />

I have a 2" (maybe 2 1/2") roughing gouge and that is REALLY BIG,

I would call that the monster gouge!

Yep. But I can turn a pen in five seconds with it. []

 

[wayneis]

Nancy you have recived a few good tips but the most important has been left off or forgot. SHARP TOOLS make all the difference in the world. If your tools are kinda dull then they will cause a catch every time no matter how light a cut you try to make.

If you have a sharpening system then use it. If you don't have one then you need to call Santa and tell him that you need to do some trading.

Wayne

 

[ed4copies]

Originally posted by Ron in Drums PA
<br />

I have a 2" (maybe 2 1/2") roughing gouge and that is REALLY BIG,

I would call that the monster gouge!

WOW! Sorry, I have nothing over an inch and a half (all baby tools by Arkansas standards).

Frank said:The actual answer is 'whatever works for you'.
Ed Said:Actually, you will be limited by the tools you actually HAVE. Try them all and see what makes YOU comfortable.

We have reached a consensus![][][]

In short, we all agree-good luck and good turning-you will get better as you gain experience. (And, you will have fun doing it!!)

 

[punkinn]

If you have a sharpening system then use it. If you don't have one then you need to call Santa and tell him that you need to do some trading. Wayne

Wayne, I do have, and use, a slow speed grinder for sharpening. Maybe some of my problems are with learning to do that "just right" also. But I do sharpen, and pretty frequently.

Thanks everyone for your great input and advice! {this is such a nice place} []

Nancy

 

[Scott]

You guys all make me laugh!!! []

Nancy - No, that doesn't mean they're wrong! As a matter of fact, I believe they all gave you sound advice. It just goes to show that you can arrive at the same destination by travelling different routes!

I use a skew for most things. After you get used to it you prefer it. The person I watched who really changed my mind on the skew was Stuart Mortimer. Truly amazing!

Anyway, if the blank stops too easily while roughing, I snug the nut down a bit with my fingers. I also turn the speed up. Use the sharp tool of your choice! [8D] And good luck!

Scott.

 

[KenV]

Nancy -- Be sure to get high speed steel for your turning tools. That steel is designed to have a durable edge and will stay sharp longer. There are still some high carbon steel tools around, and while they work, they require a lot more sharpening.

Until you are good with a grinder, think about using either a diamond or india stone for honing the edge from time to time. I tend to use a fine india stone.

I generally prefer smaller tools (except for scrapers) being more to the "bonnie klein" orientation - but use a micro lathe most of the time.

I have found value in DVDs - being a visual person and those by Alan Lacer, Bonnie Klein, and Richard Raffan have helped. I find that I replay them every couple of weeks and look at the fine points of style and technique as I learn, I see more. DVD allows better selection of the section needed for fine points. Lots of tricks to learn but the practice can be fun with great rewards in the aha's that come with developing skill and consistent techniques.

Remember that even the pro's have catches. Listen as you turn as the wood and tools will speak to you about what is happening.

 

[Ron in Drums PA]

Originally posted by punkinn

But I do sharpen, and pretty frequently.

Thanks everyone for your great input and advice! {this is such a nice place} []

Nancy

Your welcome Nancy,

You are on the right track, I known a full-time turner who said this to me once.
"I sharpen my tools not because they are dull, but because they can be sharper"

 

[gothycdesigns]

Me, being new to turning pens, I've used both. I like the bowl gouge more, maybe because I'm used to it. I have turned with the skew as well, both have their advantages and I guess the main thing is,
preference in tools. I have found that tighening the nut a little more does not hurt anything. YES, you can over tighten and this may bow the mandrel. But I have also heard that sanding the corners down after you have drilled, tubed and squared the blank will also help with catching. You only need to take just enough down to help with the edges. I have done this a couple of times and works nicely for harder woods.

I have also heard that using a 3/4" scraper works well, but have not tried it since I do not own a scraper. So maybe try sanding the edges on the disc sanded or beltsander. The other thing is, maybe sharpen the tool a little more tomake sure it its sharp. Dull edges may chip wood or catch it.

Later,
Ray K.