Looking for a little help

[jttheclockman]

I have put out a few pms to get an answer to this question but have yet to hear back so I thought I would just make a general request. I know there are still a few old time members here that remember a person who was known as Eagle on this site. He made a pen and actually a couple different versions but the one that interest me right now was called the LITEBRITE pen. It was made from colored toothpicks.

It has been my ambition to over time pay homage to some well known pen turners that have past through this site and may still be members. My goal is to take a pen that they made and try in some way to duplicate or replicate to the best of my ability the craftsmanship that went into them. These are pens that you just do not see every day and just stand tall and can not be mistaken. This will take quite a bit of time but my goal is to have something in the works as i also progress with my own designs.

This particular pen has been on my watch list for a long time. I have Eagle's description of how he made it but what I do not have and hoping someone has or can suggest, the way he went and dyed the toothpicks. To get color throughout the toothpick is not an easy thing to do. What dyes did he use or what wood was those tooth picks. The ones I am playing with are beach every day wood toothpicks. I have tried waterbased dyes, oil based dyes, alcohol based dyes and nothing will fully penetrate. Have not tried vac or pressure yet.

Any thoughts or links to a thread that can give me some clues would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

 

[CREID]

I don't know about now, but they used to sell colored toothpicks. If they don't sell them now, I think you are on the right track by thinking of vacuum, like stabilizing.

 

[Nedge]

Hello John,
I think that the toothpicks may have been dyed already by the manufacturer of the toothpicks. I have seen them in stores. Hope this helps.
Ed

 

[CREID]

Great Value Party Picks Toothpicks, 150 count - Walmart.com
Hope this link works, for Walmart.

 

[jttheclockman]

For all those that are suggesting colored toothpicks, they are not dyed all the way through. They are surfaced colored with food coloring. Have checked already. thanks

 

[BRobbins629]

I too have that one on my bucket list. Another thing missing is a supply of hexagonal toothpicks. I have tried other methods to make colored hexagonal pieces with some success and even had a blank but it blew up during drilling. Still on my list.

 

[CREID]

For all those that are suggesting colored toothpicks, they are not dyed all the way through. They are surfaced colored with food coloring. Have checked already. thanks

Looks like you may have to suck it in there with vacuum.
Or you could take the easy way out and get some wood that is colored all the way through and turn the darn little things.. But that would be too easy.:biggrin:

 

[jttheclockman]

I too have that one on my bucket list. Another thing missing is a supply of hexagonal toothpicks. I have tried other methods to make colored hexagonal pieces with some success and even had a blank but it blew up during drilling. Still on my list.

Bruce I have an idea of what I may try because I do not plan on making the exact same pattern as he did but use the concept of tooth picks in the design. If all else fails i may try my idea. He was ahead of his time for sure. thought on a different level.

 

[jttheclockman]

For all those that are suggesting colored toothpicks, they are not dyed all the way through. They are surfaced colored with food coloring. Have checked already. thanks

Looks like you may have to suck it in there with vacuum.
Or you could take the easy way out and get some wood that is colored all the way through and turn the darn little things.. But that would be too easy.:biggrin:

Curt he did not have vac. I remember somewhere he mentioned how he did it but the thread escapes me. It was in his first attempt. This was his second attempt because he figured out how to have the round tooth picks all around the tube and not oblonged like on his first try. I think those threads were lost when Jeff made the shift in formats. Some people brought over some important works on their own. Hoping someone may have it archieved somewhere.

 

[CREID]

Well, I spent a few decades in the ink and coatings (printing) industry. I made dyes for years. My best advice for dyes would be alcohol dyes. Water and oil based dyes won't penetrate as far into wood. One thing you might try is Water based dye and add a little, now is the careful part, alcohol, but not Isopropyl alcohol (rubbing alcohol) but maybe ethyl alcohol or even better Normal propyl alcohol, Although I don't know if you have a source for normal propyl alcohol. But definitely not Isopropyl alcohol. You could try methanol but that is wood alcohol and very poisonous.

 

[maxwell_smart007]

Try this link...

http://content.penturners.org/library/pen_blanks/litebrite.pdf

It shows the toothpicks up close, anyway...

 

[jttheclockman]

Try this link...

http://content.penturners.org/library/pen_blanks/litebrite.pdf

It shows the toothpicks up close, anyway...

Yes that was his first attempt. I have that. But he had a thread that went with it and I think in there was where he said how he dyed the tooth picks. That was 10 years ago. The memory has faded. I will try experimenting with some trans tint dyes. They are the strongest dyes that I know of. That was his motto. Can't tell you everything kid.

 

[maxwell_smart007]

http://www.penturners.org/forum/f13/dots-dots-1176-a-22285/

Not much more detail, but one never knows what might inspire..

 

[maxwell_smart007]

Here's a write-up on another forum:
https://forum.canadianwoodworking.com/forum/woodworking/turning/40569-lite-brite-pen

 

[plantman]

John; That is an amazing pen even for today's standards and methods !! This is a method I have used when making miniature furniture and small items for dollhouses. I used an aniline dye that was mixed with hot water. This by itself will not give you the penetration you are seeking. So I would take my small wooden parts (tooth picks) and place them in a Mason jar and cover them with water. Than place the jar on a heating plate or stove and bring the water to a slow boil. Remove from heat and place the cover on the jar and let them soak for a while. As they cool a vacuum seal will form in the jar (same an in canning). After it cools and soaks for a while, open the jar and reheat. When hot add your dye and mix well until you get the color you want, than reseal the jar and let sit for a day or so until you get the penetration you want. You may have to repeat this process depending on the type of wood you are using. Wood Craft sells Homestead Transfast Dye Powders that are used in furniture repair and restoration. They come in a number of colors, are in 1 oz. resealable jars, have no pigments or solids, and will make a gallon of stain. A little high priced however, running from $12.95 to $21 per ounce depending on color. This method, I would think, should work on something as small as a toothpick. It's more the steaming and vacuum process than the type of dye, and water based is the safest way. Hope this helps you out in some way. maxwell_smart007 did a fantastic job of searching for the lost write-ups!!!! Jim S

 

[jttheclockman]

Here's a write-up on another forum:
https://forum.canadianwoodworking.com/forum/woodworking/turning/40569-lite-brite-pen

Evidently Eagle never did lead onto how he colored them. I just read some posts from 2004 of his and he was working with vacuum and pressure back then so that is probably what he used. There are some old names in there too that I remember. At least this shows there is hope.

what really surprised me is that is basically the design I was thinking of for mine also. Never saw that pen. I have a little different twist but on those lines. Good to see others were moved by that pen and gave it a try. Now I am convinced even more so. Thanks for that link.

 

[jttheclockman]

John; That is an amazing pen even for today's standards and methods !! This is a method I have used when making miniature furniture and small items for dollhouses. I used an aniline dye that was mixed with hot water. This by itself will not give you the penetration you are seeking. So I would take my small wooden parts (tooth picks) and place them in a Mason jar and cover them with water. Place then on a heating plate or stove and bring the water to a slow boil. Place the cover on the jar and let them soak for a while. As they cool a vacuum seal will form in the jar (same an in canning). After it cools and soaks for a while, open the jar and reheat. When hot add your dye and mix well until you get the color you want, than reseal the jar and let sit for a day or so until you get the penetration you want. You may have to repeat this process depending on the type of wood you are using. Wood Craft sells Homestead Transfast Dye Powders that are used in furniture repair and restoration. They come in a number of colors, are in 1 oz. resealable jars, have no pigments or solids, and will make a gallon of stain. A little high priced however, running from $12.95 to $21 per ounce depending on color. This method, I would think, should work on something as small as a toothpick. It's more the steaming and vacuum process than the type of dye, and water based is the safest way. Hope this helps you out in some way. Jim S

Jim it seems that vacuum is the key word here. I have the liquid dyes. Do you think I can use them in any way instead of powder.

 

[plantman]

John; That is an amazing pen even for today's standards and methods !! This is a method I have used when making miniature furniture and small items for dollhouses. I used an aniline dye that was mixed with hot water. This by itself will not give you the penetration you are seeking. So I would take my small wooden parts (tooth picks) and place them in a Mason jar and cover them with water. Place then on a heating plate or stove and bring the water to a slow boil. Place the cover on the jar and let them soak for a while. As they cool a vacuum seal will form in the jar (same an in canning). After it cools and soaks for a while, open the jar and reheat. When hot add your dye and mix well until you get the color you want, than reseal the jar and let sit for a day or so until you get the penetration you want. You may have to repeat this process depending on the type of wood you are using. Wood Craft sells Homestead Transfast Dye Powders that are used in furniture repair and restoration. They come in a number of colors, are in 1 oz. resealable jars, have no pigments or solids, and will make a gallon of stain. A little high priced however, running from $12.95 to $21 per ounce depending on color. This method, I would think, should work on something as small as a toothpick. It's more the steaming and vacuum process than the type of dye, and water based is the safest way. Hope this helps you out in some way. Jim S

Jim it seems that vacuum is the key word here. I have the liquid dyes. Do you think I can use them in any way instead of powder.

John; I don't see why it shouldn't work just as well, I have used alcohol dyes and vacuum to tint wood as well as aniline dye, hot water, and no vacuum. But I think if you add the heat to open the pores and soften the wood first, before putting it in the dye and vacuum, you will get better penetration. As long as you have the liquid, I would try it first. Jim S

 

[jttheclockman]

Thanks Jim. Will give it a try. Just another project on my to do list.

 

[Wildman]

I would not use tooth picks, would update design using colored pencils leads. Because color in colored pencils normally a mixture of wax, clay & dye and very soft would buy a mold and cast the blanks.

In any event not easy whether use tooth picks or colored pencils.

Good luck with it.

 

[jttheclockman]

I would not use tooth picks, would update design using colored pencils leads. Because color in colored pencils normally a mixture of wax, clay & dye and very soft would buy a mold and cast the blanks.

In any event not easy whether use tooth picks or colored pencils.

Good luck with it.

Thanks Bill but the whole idea of this adventure is to emulate the top pen turners that went through this site. I brought up another pen I want to try awhile back. That person is still a member here but it is the technique and materials that were used that make it stand out and for that I want to do my version but try to duplicate the methods used.

The colored pencil has been done many times. Have not seen the colored tooth picks. In fact a couple years ago I even bought colored drink stirrers and was going to go that route and may still do. Over the next year and beyond you will hopefully see some of these type pens show up as I get myself back into creating again.

 

[jimmyz]

I have seen some tutorials on using ink dyes (same as in an Inkjet printer). They are very powerful and soak right into the wood. Might want to give them a try. Wellburn Gourd Farm sells this dye for one, probably others too.

 

[jttheclockman]

I put this question out on another woodworking forum and got some same responses. But I did get an answer that was interesting. It comes down to the anatomy of how a tooth pick is made and within that is the answer of how to dye them. White birch is the wood source.

http://www.youtube.com/embed/rP_7FIpPFEQ?rel=0&autoplay=1

This is an interesting video of how they are made. The key factors I got out of it are That after the tooth pick is cut to size they are heated and pressurized to make harder and then finish with talc powder to help in the smoothing operation. I think a combination of the contaminated wood from the talc and the hardness from the heat is why they will not absorb dyes. So a basic return to raw state is the answer. With Jim's method I may just achieve that.

Thanks all for the suggestions I will report progress when I take on this project and will also take photos of the pen process.

 

[skiprat]

Good luck with that John...:biggrin:

I've just done some maths....and if my calculations are correct then you will be 187 years old before you finish your bucket list. :biggrin:

 

[jttheclockman]

Good luck with that John...:biggrin:

I've just done some maths....and if my calculations are correct then you will be 187 years old before you finish your bucket list. :biggrin:

I think you need to recalculate. I have the odds at 205 -210 I got a shot The question is how will you know???:biggrin: Wonder who will be running the show here??? How old is Jeff???:biggrin:


Ok folks for our next auction we have this 2016 version of a tooth pick pen by some old fart. Take it away Chuck. Chuck put down that pink towel. Lets get started.


Just had to.:biggrin: I think I will put Chuck's pink towel on my to do list too.

 

[jimmyz]

I have seen some demos of using ink dye (same as ink jet printer) on wood where the dye soaks very deeply into the wood. Seems like it would do so for tooth picks. Wellburn Gourd Farm (probably others too) sells the ink. Hope this helps.

 

[Dalecamino]

Good luck with that John...:biggrin:

I've just done some maths....and if my calculations are correct then you will be 187 years old before you finish your bucket list. :biggrin:

I think you need to recalculate. I have the odds at 205 -210 I got a shot The question is how will you know???:biggrin: Wonder who will be running the show here??? How old is Jeff???:biggrin:


Ok folks for our next auction we have this 2016 version of a tooth pick pen by some old fart. Take it away Chuck. Chuck put down that pink towel. Lets get started.


Just had to.:biggrin: I think I will put Chuck's pink towel on my to do list too.

Not much challenge there John! BTW, do I have to wait for you to do this tooth pick deal? :biggrin:

 

[Wildman]

I read every post before posting and paid particular attention to that tutorial posted which left me awe struck. I could not add anything about dying tooth picks. Did think about colored plastic tooth picks as a solution. Just have no idea if color runs completely through the tooth picks. Stirring sticks sound intriguing.

After posting worried everyone would think talking about using colored pencils. No was thinking about colored refill leads for mechanical pencils. Because they contain wax thought casting would work the best.

pencil color lead refill | eBay

I don't shop E-bay but thought this place and others less expensive.

 

[jttheclockman]

Good luck with that John...:biggrin:

I've just done some maths....and if my calculations are correct then you will be 187 years old before you finish your bucket list. :biggrin:

I think you need to recalculate. I have the odds at 205 -210 I got a shot The question is how will you know???:biggrin: Wonder who will be running the show here??? How old is Jeff???:biggrin:


Ok folks for our next auction we have this 2016 version of a tooth pick pen by some old fart. Take it away Chuck. Chuck put down that pink towel. Lets get started.


Just had to.:biggrin: I think I will put Chuck's pink towel on my to do list too.

Not much challenge there John! BTW, do I have to wait for you to do this tooth pick deal? :biggrin:

Patience my friend. According to Skip I have a few years left. It should happen some time this year. I am going to start out real simple. Need to get the feel back. Went in the shop today. Started planning one blank that is creative and 2 that are simple casts but need to get done for the Gear shift pen. Not sure if i want to make a stand or not for those.