Long-Term Use of Pen with Metal Segments?

[beck3906]

I've often wondered about the effects on a pen body where aluminum, brass, or other thin metal strips were used in a segmented pen body. I've somewhat been reluctant to get too deep into this area because of my concern that the body segments will become rough-edged as the wood shrinks with age possibly leaving the metal piece exposed above the surface of the wood.

Does anyone have a pen body that has been used for a number of years that can describe the feel? Has the metal edge become slightly exposed?

I know this concern shouldn't exist for acrylic segments. However, there's enough interest in using wood that I thought someone could offer observations.

 

[Rangertrek]

I have been used a segmented Euro that is my personal pen for the last two years. It has metal segments on both upper and lower barrels plus mango and purple heart woods. Finished with CA. I have not noticed any edges, ridges, or bumps in the pen. I would think that a CA finish would cover your concerns. A friction polish or something similar may be a different story.

 

[leehljp]

Several aspects and wood characteristics come into play here. IF the wood is dry, and/or IF the wood is a non to miniscule movement wood, then there will not be much of a problem.

Even wood that "moves" a lot, if dried and coated well with CA, or if it is stabilized, will not have a problem. Again, wood that moves a lot can be made into veneer for furniture and it will not move. These same woods are applied to make plywood and they do not "move" (shrink/expand). When a wood is a certain thickness - less than 1/8 inch, it can be stabilized to the point that it will not move (shrink/expand). A few woods do not move even when not stabilized.

The wood on pens are less than 1/8 inch thick and fall into this veneer properties range. The one situation that does have problems here is when the cross-cut and angle cut wide grained woods can and will shrink length-wise - especially if 1. not properly dried cured before drilling, 2. not properly stabilizing and using an encapuslating finish, 3. placing in a humid and unusually warm/hot environment such as a glass case with sun shining through or in a hot car.

Having said that, I have made numerous segments with brass and aluminum and those are my favorite pen making style. I have been making segments with brass since 2007 and the original pens are still in action with no visible signs of difference between the metal and wood.

The problems mentioned above are very miniscule but they do happen in the right situation.

 

[IPD_Mr]

Hank has done some awesome segmenting with different metals. Hank you did the 30 pieces of silver a few years back. If you still have the pen you should photograph it and show it with the original photos so people can see the lack of difference.

 

[soligen]

I dont want to hijack a thread. If this is close enough to on topic, LMK and I'll start a new thread.

I did some segmenting with brass & wood a while back (over a year) and I can see some discoloration (I assume tarnish) under the CA finish.

I want to do brass again, but I'm a little unsure how to prevent this from happening.

Has anyone else had this happen and found a way to prevent it?

 

[Dalecamino]

I have some over two years old that were CA coated. They still look the same. I can see where you might be concerned, if you're making them to sell. CA is pretty darn durable, if applied properly.

 

[SteveG]

I do not have direct experience, such as observing these results over an extended period of time. But this is my thought: A wood and metal segment pen body is likely to remain without noticeable variation due to wood "movement" due to the very small thickness of the wood itself in a finished pen. This has been mentioned already and I agree with that idea. A second concern is that the surface of the metal may become exposed and then tarnish or discolor. This could happen with normal wear with a CA finish if the layer of CA is too thin. It is very easy, unfortunately, to sand the CA finish too thin in a localized area of the blank. My answer to this potential problem is to plan for and build a little extra thickness into my CA finish on metal segment pens. I also give extra attention to my sanding procedures for this type of pen body. It is an easy "insurance policy" to avoid future problems once the pen is in the hands of the customer.

 

[leehljp]

Hank has done some awesome segmenting with different metals. Hank you did the 30 pieces of silver a few years back. If you still have the pen you should photograph it and show it with the original photos so people can see the lack of difference.

I will do this and post the photos sometime towards tomorrow (Monday) afternoon. That pen is about 4 years old will show the wood and metal differences very well.

 

[leehljp]

I dont want to hijack a thread. If this is close enough to on topic, LMK and I'll start a new thread.

I did some segmenting with brass & wood a while back (over a year) and I can see some discoloration (I assume tarnish) under the CA finish.

I want to do brass again, but I'm a little unsure how to prevent this from happening.

Has anyone else had this happen and found a way to prevent it?

There could be a number of causes on the discoloration but for me I haven't had any. I use epoxy between layers because I have more open time to use clamps. Epoxy seems to isolate any contaminates for me. I do clean the brass or aluminum with a fiber type of sanding pad but I don't polish it.

Did you by any chance use some green wood. Usually it is moisture that will cause the brass and some of the tanins in the wood to interact and possibly tarnish. IF wet sanding is used in the finish, it is possible for that to happen also. For that reason I do not wet sand directly on the wood on pens. On my segmented pens, I do not dry sand either because of the metal sanding dust contaminating the wood too often. I use a well honed scraper chisel at high speeds to smooth the wood and metal.

Like SteveG mentioned above, after turning mine down to size with the scraper, I put several medium coats of CA and get a very good and relatively thick layer on before sanding the CA even the first time. IF I sand through to the wood even once, a spot will show up and the color will be different at that spot even after it is re-coated with CA.

 

[jd99]

I dont want to hijack a thread. If this is close enough to on topic, LMK and I'll start a new thread.

I did some segmenting with brass & wood a while back (over a year) and I can see some discoloration (I assume tarnish) under the CA finish.

I want to do brass again, but I'm a little unsure how to prevent this from happening.

Has anyone else had this happen and found a way to prevent it?

That discoloration isn't tarnish, thats an antique patina that takes years to accomplish, makes the pen worth more. :wink:

 

[leehljp]

Sorry I am so late in getting these photo links here. In addition to a new grandchild being born (in Dallas) the day I promised to take these, I have been traveling in different states and just returned home a couple of days ago.

Photos of segments of metal and different kinds of wood are shown by clicking on both links below.

This pen was made in late 2008 and used daily since then. It is scratched and just wiped clean. My photo tent is still in a box somewhere - from my move from Japan in Dec of '10. Not the best photos but it will show what you are looking for in a long term metal to wood segment. I used epoxy as my glue on segments like this. Also, there is a very good layer of CA on the pen. It does not show up in the photo just because of the way the photo was taken in direct sunlight and the pen was not polished! (Need to find my photo tent and lights.)

http://www.penturners.org/photos/images/940/1_3wd_4seg.jpg

http://www.penturners.org/photos/images/940/1_Clip_end_Closeup.jpg

Again, apologies for the long delay.

 

[IPD_Mr]

Hank I am glad to hear you kept that pen. It is one of several you did while in Japan that I thought were outstanding.

 

[beck3906]

Hank,
Thanks for the photos.

I've wondered how well the segmenting will last. This helps me make a decision to offer these types of blanks on pens.

I bought a segmented blank from someone a number of years ago. I found it recently and thought the joint between metal and wood felt rough. I didn't want to use the body until I saw how well it would hold up.

Thanks again.

 

[beck3906]

And congratulations on the new grand child!!