Logistics of spraying a dozen+ pens... advice?

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redfishsc

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I have 15-20 wood pens I will be making for a customer out of mostly oak and a few walnut, and my finishing method is basically 1) seal with CA on the lathe and 2) spray with conversion varnish (lacquer on steroids).

I am used to spraying a whole bunch of pens at a time, but always with different woods. It's easy to match them back up.


But these are all gonna look the same, so how can I, after turning and sealing with CA, keep THAT many pens orderly and not mixed up? I don't want to spend hours trying to match the blanks back together so the grain matches up. Any thoughts?
 
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wudnhed

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Take a very fine felt pen an mark each match with the same number on and end of the the blank that will hit metal after assembling.
 

lostlugnut

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Here is what I do to seperate several pens. You can resize as needed. I took a 2X4, some 3/4 hardwood dowels, candle wax, and diffrent colored sharpies. I dont have a pic right now but if one is needed I will post one tonight.

Setup: I took the dowels and and cut the dowels about 4 in long. I put them between centers and cut an hourglass shape on then more towards one end makeing the thin section small enought to take a 7mm tube but tapered to hold larger. WHile it was spinning I put wax on what will be the top section to stop stuff from sticking to them. I cut the dowel at the thin section and drilled 3/4 holes in the 2X4. I took the longer of the two posts and glued them in the back and the shorter in the front. (Think stadium seating for pen sections) This works very well for holding the sections until I can put them together.

For marking I use different colors of sharpies and put 1-3 marks on the INSIDE of the tube. This allows alignment and matching if I have several going at the same time. (Don't mark the wood on the endgrain with green marker it will ruin the blank [;)].
 

alparent

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What kit is it? If there is enough space on the on the end of the blank you could always write a number with a pencil. When your at the assembling stage, match your blanks (if any got mixed up) erase the writing and assemble.

To easily match the grain make a pencil mark on the ends of the blank (after they've bean squared off)The marks have to be where the blanks are going to be match together in the center of the pen and they need to identify the same face of the blank.

To keep them together, get yourself some 3" or longer finishing nails and drive them just a bit in a peace of wood. Then just put each pair of blanks on the nail.

I hope this makes sens ?!?![:I]
 

jeffj13

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I put my pens on a dowel when I spray them. If it were me, after each set of blanks came off the lathe I would put them on the dowel and put some sort of spacer between each pen (perhaps a plastic milk bottle cap.

jeff
 

Mikey

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I have a piece of plywood and drilled 1/4" holes in it and then inserted bolts through the holes. My board right now has room for 5 pens. I use it for painting tubes and holding the blanks as the finish is drying.
 

jrc

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Sometimes I work a few hundred blanks at a time, after there trimed and ready to turn I will sort them into different woods and just look at them closely and match them up.
I've never made a bad match that they did not look good together.
 

Rmartin

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I may be giving away state secrets here, but this is my complex set-up:

2007116222330_DSC01905.jpg
<br />

A scrape block of wood with some 10 penny nails. I don't spray with the blanks on the nails, but I guess you could. I spray one at a time using an artist's brush with some tape wraped around it to keep the blank from falling all the way down. Then tilt it back onto the nail.
 

redfishsc

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Originally posted by lostlugnut
<br /> For marking I use different colors of sharpies and put 1-3 marks on the INSIDE of the tube. This allows alignment and matching if I have several going at the same time. (Don't mark the wood on the endgrain with green marker it will ruin the blank [;)].

That sounds like my chicken, thanks lugnut!


BTW, my spraying process is similar to what has been mentioned. I take various diameter dowels and slide the blanks onto them. I spray them laying horizontally on the dowel. If the blanks don't fit snug on the dowel so that they can be turned like a rotisserie while spraying, I put tape on the dowel so that they fit snug.





As for those that asked why I don't use a CA finish, several reasons.

1- I never can get a CA finish without the hazy spots. I have tried several methods and they all haze. I can't figure it out.

2-- The finish I use is just as durable as CA, MUCH easier to get to a glossy shine (no micromesh required), and if a very nice satin/matte look is desired, it is very easy to get right off the spray gun (just buy "satin" instead of gloss). I use conversion varnish, which is basically lacquer on steroids.

3- I got an email today from a friend that has been using one of my Jr GentII's for a year now (a fellow cabinet maker that sprays conversion varnish on his cabinets) and he is stunned at how well the varnish looks after a solid years worth of heavy use. I can attest to that myself.
 

redfishsc

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I am saving some of this (at least, the "how to's") for a tutorial I hope to put together sometime around mid-December. But I'll give you a foretaste...


For one, this finish is really only handy for folks who finish a dozen or more wood pens at a time. For those of us who do onesies and twosies, a CA finish or dipped/wiped lacquer finish is likely the best bet (though most all of you would benefit by upgrading to a precat lacquer, read below, it will work just like Deft).

This all comes 100% from my experience as a cabinet maker. There are basically three types of finish a cabinet shop will spray, and all three are very useable for us. They go from least durable to most durable (there are other finishes out there such as 2-part polyurethane finishes I won't discuss b/c are not very commonly used due to high cost or other weirdities).

The three main types of finish:

1) Regular lacquer (ie, Deft). Easy to use. Yellows in time b/c it is nitrocellulose based. Usually around 25% solids content (meaning you are buying 75% lacquer thinner). Not very durable compared to it's bigger brothers-- the main problem is chemical durability, it simply isn't very resistant to alcohol and cleaners. On a pen, hand crud is about the worst a pen is likely to see, so it works fine. I, however, prefer something that is more rock-solid.

2) Precat lacquer. The same as above, but it comes with a catalyst already added to it, and most all of them also have a good bit higher solids content (some are around 35%). A LOT more durable than regular lacquer, cures harder, and cures to a useable hardness much quicker (two days if you want to buff and assemble). Much more chemically resistant. Does also yellow with time, but that isn't a concern for the vast majority of woods since they are already dark or yellowish.

3) Conversion varnish. Often approaching 40% solids (ie, it cost more but you get more stuff for the dollar). Contains NO catalyst until YOU add it and it has an 8 hour "pot life" once catalyzed. CV is basically a type of catalyzed lacquer. The big difference between cv and lacquer is the catalyst and the type of solids. CV is usually a polyester and/or melamine resin concoction and is generally 100% non-yellowing. It will "dry" a touch quicker than lacquer, harden to a buff-friendly hardness overnight, and if you don't really want to buff it, you can assemble the pen just a few hours after spraying.


CV is only available from places that sell finishes to cabinet shops. You usually don't need a commercial account, however. Understand that it is designed for use in "industrial" woodworking, which IMO many of us qualify so long as we take precautions. CV is a solvent-based finish, and you MUST have good ventilation and wear a mask if you are spraying much.

I wish I had time to give you more info, but can't due to time constraints.

If, by the way, you own a general woodshop or cabinet shop or a very active penshop that will benefit from using this kind of product, I'd encourage you to check out www.mlcampbell.com and browse. This is the company I use for most of my finishing needs, find a distributor and see if they will send out a rep to demo their product. Just know that they cater mostly to cabinet/furniture shops, so they may not be able to send someone out to demo in a pen shop, most of their reps will have never even seen a wood pen (but, may become a customer if you have a couple freebies for them!).
 

low_48

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If you guys think the smell of CA is bad, try catalyzed varnish. They will know down the block that you are spraying the stuff. I think the catalyst is an acid base. Very nasty stuff[:0] It used to be only sold in 5 gallon cans, but I think some suppliers are now using one gallon cans as well. It has a limited pot life after mixing, usually something like 8 hours. After that you have a spray gun that is filled with "jello". Even the out gassing, after it dries to the touch, is nasty. I swear that stuff probably took a couple years off the end of my life. Of course those are the years I will be drooling in the nursing home, so what's the problem? Just hope I make it that long!

redfishsc, how about stacking them on a piece of all thread rod and support that on the ends. You would be able to spray 3 feet of pen blanks at at time that way. Use the bottle cap washers to keep the CV from flowing from one blank to the other.
 

Firefyter-emt

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Richard, this is much the way I would of done it. I use CA now, but when I used lacquer I used 1/4" rods designed to hold one pen with a wood holding handle. I also used a ring hook to hang them. You could make some two foot rods and gang them up just like Richard said.
 

redfishsc

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Originally posted by low_48
<br />If you guys think the smell of CA is bad, try catalyzed varnish. They will know down the block that you are spraying the stuff. I think the catalyst is an acid base. Very nasty stuff[:0] It used to be only sold in 5 gallon cans, but I think some suppliers are now using one gallon cans as well. It has a limited pot life after mixing, usually something like 8 hours. After that you have a spray gun that is filled with "jello". Even the out gassing, after it dries to the touch, is nasty. I swear that stuff probably took a couple years off the end of my life. Of course those are the years I will be drooling in the nursing home, so what's the problem? Just hope I make it that long!

The smell is strong, but consider that we both are accustomed to spraying gallons at a time, whereas spraying a dozen pens isn't so bad so long as you have good ventilation.

The smell is, IMO, nowhere hear as horrid as CA-- it just lingers for a day or so. The Krystal that I use is barely noticeable once it's cured for a day, ie, not unlike lacquer.

As far as the material turning to jello- no conversion varnish I have ever used (4 different kinds) have not ever done that, even after 12 hours (yes I forgot to clean the gun). 2-part Urethane is a different story. But every CV I have ever sprayed *stays* a liquid until sprayed. The catalyst requires oxygen to begin the hardening process.

Just a difference in opinion, and likely, in brand of catalyzed varnish used.
 

Smokey7385

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redfishsc -

I have used a product for dipping wooden arrows called gasket lacquer. Basically you run the arrow (nothing more than a Port Orford Cedar dowel) through a rubber gasket with a small hole into a tube containing the lacquer. When you pull the arrow out the gasket wipes the lacquer to a very smooth glossy fininsh which is dry to the touch in seconds. Three to five dips puts a very nice finish on arrows. Would something like this provide a durable enough finish for pens? I have quite a bit of GL left from my bow making/arrow making days.
 

redfishsc

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Originally posted by Smokey7385
<br />redfishsc -

I have used a product for dipping wooden arrows called gasket lacquer. Basically you run the arrow (nothing more than a Port Orford Cedar dowel) through a rubber gasket with a small hole into a tube containing the lacquer. When you pull the arrow out the gasket wipes the lacquer to a very smooth glossy fininsh which is dry to the touch in seconds. Three to five dips puts a very nice finish on arrows. Would something like this provide a durable enough finish for pens? I have quite a bit of GL left from my bow making/arrow making days.

It sounds worth a shot to me if you have the equipment, though I doubt you will find the gasket any use since pens are not usually the same diameter and shape as a straight arrow, lol.

You might try brushing or spraying it on--- a decent airbrush will do fine.

Ultimately what makes a finish a "good finish" for pens is trial and error. I have used precat lacquer and conversion varnish for two years (as well as several other finishes) and it ranks just as durable as CA and other hard finishes so far as I can tell.

Several pens I made two years ago were out of cheap 24K gold plated pens, and now the plating has worn off but the wood (finished with precat) looks great. Can't beat that kind of testimony!
 
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