Live center bearings failing?

[webmonk]

A few months ago I got a 60° Live Center from The Little Machine Shop (http://www.littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=2871&category=1) and I think it's started going bad already. I've noticed a little ovaling lately and finally tracked it down to the live center today. I did that by locking the tailstock down, putting the tool rest right next to the rim of the center and rotating by hand. What I saw was the daylight-scrape-daylight sequence. I put the mic on the rim and it's round all the way so that leaves me thinking bearings.

I guess I have a couple of questions. Can the bearings be repaired and if so is it worth it or should I just buy another. And if I end up buying another should I get the same type or is there something out there that's more reliable?

Thanks!

 

[Randy_]

Jon: First thing I would do is call LMS and talk to them. Their number is 1-800-981-9663. 9-5 M-F Pacific time.

The LC that has generally been recommended is the 1189 for $13. Lots of folks are using them with good results; but lately, there have a few problems with overheating.(I've had mine for over 2 years) I just talked to them on Monday and they say they are not aware of any systemic problem with the LC.

I called about any speed limitations and they said the 1189 top speed is 3000 so if you are running yours at a higher speed for long periods of time, that may be a possible explanation.

It looks to me like changing the bearing in your particular LC could take some special tools and be more trouble than it is worth. There have been some posts about folks who did change bearings; but i think they had LCs from PSI.

Wish I had a better answer; but there doesn't seem to be one right now.

 

[webmonk]

I think your max speed comment solves the mystery. For a while I was using the top end speed on my lathe (3900RPM) while playing with different finishing techniques. Guess it never occured to me that turning pens on my little jet mini would tear up a "medium duty" live center.

I'll chalk this one up as a lesson learned and give the guys there a call and see if they have something I can't break!

Thanks for the info!

 

[reef12]

Have you tried this one here?

Got one this week.

Don't know how long it will be around but price was cheap.

http://www.grizzly.com/products/h3408

Edit rated at 5000 RPm emailed and asked them

 

[Jim15]

Thanks for the info Jeff.

 

[bradh]

Bearing life is based on speed and load. Usually the maximum bearing speed is rated at very little load. If you crank the tailstock hard into the mandrel or blank, that could also be reducing the bearing life.
Most bearings are catalogue items. If you get the number off the bearing, a bearing supplier should be able to find you a replacement. Warning: it might be tricky to get the old bearing out, bearings are usually held in with a tight press fit.
Brad Harding

 

[webmonk]

I just talked to Chris out there at TLMS and he recommended this one (http://www.littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=1592&category=) for turning pens. He said what they call Heavy Duty is real world Medium Duty, but that it should handle what I'm doing, plus, you can take it apart and lube/fix things if need be.

Thanks again for the info!

 

[smoky10]

I've had the same live center you have for about a year now and run it at the top speed of my delta midi(3600-3900rpm) constantly and have had no problems. I guess I just got a good one.[]

 

[Randy_]

Originally posted by webmonk
<br />I just talked to Chris out there at TLMS and he recommended this one.....for turning pens. He said what they call Heavy Duty is real world Medium Duty, but that it should handle what I'm doing, plus, you can take it apart and lube/fix things if need be.

Jon: Guess I may be a little cynical; but this stuff from LMS is starting to sounds like BS!![!]

First off, what could be lighter duty than turning a little piece of wood that weighs not more than half an ounce. Secondly, if their HD model is really for medium duty, why don't they say so....you could argue they are inflating their advertising?? If HD is really med. duty, then does that mean their med. duty unit is really for light duty?? And what about the even lighter 1189 unit that has no duty rating......is it really extra light duty?

Over the past year or two, it seems people have had problems with all three units.(It seems there has been a big increase in reported problems in the past 6 months or so.) I'm beginning to think that either people are misusing their live centers or there is a quality control issue at LMS or their supplier.

While I agree that being able able to disassemble, clean and lube the HD model is a very nice capability, I would argue that, given the relatively light use most folks put to their live centers, doing so really shouldn't be necessary.

Personally, I have the one recommended by Fred.....the lightest duty 1189 model.....and have had no problem with it in 2 years. However, until this gets sorted out, I think I will quit recommending LMS live centers of any type in favor of other suppliers.

BTW, I noticed something on the LMS web site that is puzzling??

1189 live center weighs 0.74 pounds
2871 med. duty live center weighs 2.5 pounds(the one you have)
1592 HD live center weighs 1.48 pounds

Maybe it is just a typo; but this info doesn't seem correct to me??

 

[webmonk]

Turns out I was wrong about the kind I had. I went back and found my order sheet and I also had the 1189 light weight model so maybe that helps explain it some (though as you point out you've been using yours just fine.)

It could be a case of tool abuse. I'm very new to turning, though I'm not new to mechanical type stuff. I feel like I have at least some sense of when equipment is being pushed too hard. I don't think I abused the LC, but then, I didn't know about their RPM limit until you mentioned it and I know I exceeded that more than a few times. So, I'm still happy to take the blame on this one but if I burn through their HD model in a few month's time then it'll be a different story.

 

[Jerryconn]

Jon, Randy,
I have the 1189 as well I use it on the delta midi and the Jet 14-42 (for pen turning and small parts only) When I run it on the delta at top speed, I think 3650 RPM, for a while mine gets hot as well. I have had mine about 5 to 6 months and when it fails (and it will), I will be getting one elsewhere, like the one from grizzly. I was not very happy with my LC from the start.

 

[mick]

Originally posted by webmonk
<br />I just talked to Chris out there at TLMS and he recommended this one (http://www.littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=1592&category=) for turning pens. He said what they call Heavy Duty is real world Medium Duty, but that it should handle what I'm doing, plus, you can take it apart and lube/fix things if need be.

Thanks again for the info!

Jon, I've got the Heavy duty LC from LMS. I'm interested in your statement about being able to take it apart and lube/clean it. Where did you get this info?. I stated in an earlier post that mine was getting hot and was thinking that it needed lubing. I find nothing on the website and there were no disassembly instructions with the LC. Anybody able to enlighten me here?

 

[webmonk]

Hey Mick,

The LMS rep I was talking to on the phone gave me that info. When I told him my situation he said something like "I'd recommend the HD because it should handle the speed you're talking about, plus if there ever is a problem it can be taken apart and cleaned or lubed." I'm fuzzy on some of the conversation now but I remember for certain him saying it could be taken apart and lubed. Though now that I think about it, he didn't say it would be easy or cheap to do, just that it was possible. Hrm... :/

Let me know if you have any luck finding those disassembly/cleaning instructions! I'll take a look at it when it gets here as well.

 

[Randy_]

Originally posted by webmonk
<br />......if I burn through their HD model in a few month's time then it'll be a different story.

Jon: Be careful with that HD model when it arrives. Pipes had one a while ago and had to return it. Problem was it was so stiff.....hard to turn.....that no matter how much pressure he applied with the tailstock, he could not get the pen mandrel to "drive" the LC. The mandrel just spun at the LC tip without the LC actually rotating itself......or at least that is what I understood to be the problem. I had a similar difficulty with my 1189 and assumed the grease was packed too thick in the bearing so soaked it in kerosene for about a half hour. Then I put it on the lathe and ran it continuously for about a half hour to warm up the grease, mix in whatever kerosene was able to penetrate into the bearing and hopefully thin out the grease a little. That was the theory, anyway. After that little exercise I never had any more trouble with the center being stiff.

Another thing folks need to check out if the LC won't spin is the possibility of a defective mandrel. If the dimple on the end of your mandrel does not have the proper configuration.....a 60° cone-shaped hole with a small clearance hole at the bottom(tip).....the LC may contact the mandrel on the point rather than on the shoulders of the center. If such should be the case, there will not be enough friction between the mandrel and the live center to spin it and there may be damage caused to the point of the LC. Some very knowledgeable people have recommended using a file to remove the very end of the point of the live center. This is probably a good idea; but really won't help much if the mandrel dimple is not drilled properly.

It is not real easy to check out the dimple. You will need some strong illumination and probably a decent magnifying glass glass. I would imagine defective mandrels are not too common; but there have been a couple of reports of the problem.

 

[Randy_]

Hey Jon: How about a follow-up?? What LC did you finally end up buying and how is it working?? Thanks.

 

[woodbutcher]

Try a Oneway live center. Mine are over 4 yrs old with no problems. I don't abuse my tools but they are not babied either. You will pay in the neighborhood of $90.00 for one but your problems concerning live centers will be over.

 

[Randy_]

Originally posted by woodbutcher
<br />Try a Oneway live center. Mine are over 4 yrs old with no problems. I don't abuse my tools but they are not babied either. You will pay in the neighborhood of $90.00 for one but your problems concerning live centers will be over.

For what they are, it seems to me that someone should be able to make a decent live center for less than $90. Buying a Oneway would sort of be like buying a Mont Blanc which is something that I doubt most of us would do??

 

[Russb]

Check out Packard they have two choices for less than the Oneway, an excellent center.

 

[gmcnut]

Russell,

I just started another thread asking if anyone here has experience with an LC from Packard. A bunch of folks have read the thread but no replies. Now here is some encouraging news from you here.

Is the one you have one of these two?

http://tinyurl.com/34kcwh

http://tinyurl.com/2oje4p

I want to buy a live center to upgrade my Jet lathe so I can make the most precise pen turnings that I can. I don't think I want to go with the one from LMS as I am hearing too many complaints about squeal.

I have yet to turn a pen on this lathe. I did turn one on Bill Jacob's Shopsmith and it turned out very nice for my first effort. (With Bill's help of course) Bill was very generous with both his time and materials.

 

[Dario]

I said this numerous times but will repeat again.

My LMS live center also squeeled but after applying Mobil 1 (motor oil that I had instant access in my garage) on it...never had the problem again. That was more than 6 months ago. Granted that I don't turn much, I did a lot before Christmas.

Maybe this is worth trying for those who already have LMS live centers.

 

[Russb]

I don't have the centers from Packard. My centers were purchased from a catalog that was discontinuing the woodturning line. They were purchased 10 years ago and still run like new. I guess I am saying spend a little bit more, order from a quality woodturning catalog, and maybe get a center that won't have problems. It's frustrating when many like a product but it does not perform for you, like the LMS center.

 

[woodbutcher]

Randy to a certain point I agree, however there seems to be an endless stream of posts concerning live centers. I figure for all the problems that occur, the ruined material and lost time the Oneway is actually a pretty good deal. Bearings (good ones) for a live center are well over $40.00 each. Most good live centers have 2. I have no connections to Oneway other than buying their products. If you choose to waste time and money on "bargain tools" be my guest. As far as Mont Blanc is concerned you are correct. Why write with over priced junk when you can turn a high quality product of you own creation for the price of a kit and some wood.

 

[stevers]

I also picked up the LMS cheap LC. (13.00) I have run it for maybe 2 or 3 hours. I'll keep an eye on it and post any problems.

 

[MesquiteMan]

Jim,

You and I agree 100%, although I own a Nova live center set. It is over $100 most places but has been 100% foolproof. My LMS live center is now sitting on the bottom shelf of my lathe cabinet.

The lesson I have learned in my business (home building) as well as my shop, is that only rich men can afford to buy cheap tools!

 

[its_virgil]

My LMS live center has performed flawlessly for over two years and that's a lot of pens and other stuff. Never heard a noise, not a squeel, wobble, shimmy, vibration...just smooth trouble free spinning..

On the subject of bearing....If bearings are bought from the manufacturer of the tool then way too much money is spent. Find a "bearing house" as we call them here... a store, boutique, emporium, mill, mall, shop, bodega, parts place, or whaterver they are called... a place that only sells bearings and related parts...they can cross reference the numbers on your bearing and sell you one of equal quality or better quality for much less. I replaced the bearings on my Jet Mini lathe for $8 each (I think)... much less than what Jet wanted for them if I recall correctly.

Do a good turn daily!
Don

 

[woodbutcher]

The price I got was for headstock spindle bearings for a Carbatec pen lathe. The actual price was $45.00 wholesale. These were Timken bearings not the import stuff. I was taken by surprise by the price. The name of the company is Miller Bearing in Orlando. Harley Davidson wanted $26.00 for a countershaft bearing for the Jap replacement. Same American made Timken from Miller Bearing was $4.25. Maybe the odd size for the Carbatec bearing is the reason for the high price. I hope this helps.