Large comany order-Part II - Moving forward! ??'s

[warreng8170]

Some of you may remember my post from a couple of weeks ago regarding a large order of pens for my company. I finally got word today that they do want to proceed. I thought I would post what we are currently thinking about and get your opinions.

As of right now, it looks like we are going to be doing an initial order of 50 pens with a probability of another 50.[:0] I feel sure that we are going to go with the chrome Sierra. I also convinced them not to offer any options in materials. This is going to make this process soooo much easier. Now I can buy whatever we choose in bulk and go ahead and start the process before they actually offer the pens.

We initially talked about doing boxes, but that is going to put the per pen cost above what we can agree on in regards to price. We are probably going to go with velvet pouches tagged with both a company thank you card as well as one of my business cards.

As for pricing, we have agreed on a per-pen price. It's slightly less than I would sell them individually, but at this quantity, the total will not only cover the cost of the order, but will recoup ALL the money I have spent getting started in penturning PLUS leave enough left over to buy a nice inventory of pen kits for future pens. On top of that, it will expose my work to 100 people that I would probably would never have had the chance to meet.

The big question I have is about the wood. I need to find something that can attain a hi-gloss finish with as little work as possible. I normally use CA and can get glass-like results, but it also takes a while. I doubt I would be able to finish 100 pens with CA in a reasonable time-frame.

I remember someone mentioning in my first post about the ease of finishing stabilized wood. Is it possible to sand/polish stabilized wood to a gloss finish without any coating? I noticed Bill at AS has a HUGE assortment of stabilized wood. Everything else I have ever gotten from him has been top quality so I assume his stabilized woods would be as well. I think I want to go with York Gum Burl which Bill does carry as a stabilized blank. I have made a Chrome Sierra from this already and it is gorgeous.

Lastly, does anyone have any suggestions or tips on optimizing the "production line" of an order like this? I was thinking doing each process on all 100 before moving on (i.e. cut 100, drill 100, glue 100, etc.). The scope of an order this size is starting hit me, and when I told my wife about it today, she asked me how long she was going to be a single mother. At least she knows what to expect. []

Any input or ideas you guys have to make this whole ordeal go smoothly would be greatly appreciated.

 

[tbroye]

I think if I were doing that many. I would get a couple of extra mandrels and sets of bushings. Then I would cut'em, drill'em, glue'me and square'em. I would turn, depending on how many madrels you have say 4, turn 4 finsh 4 and repeat the procrss. Your wife could load the mandrels for you and maybe assemble them. I would also rubber band each set a blanks together and make sure you mark grain match. Take plenty of brakes so you don't get going to fast and get burned out and make mistakes. I would also order extra tubes and may make up 5 extra sets, just in case. I did 50 Pink Ivory European Pen's for my Wife's Breast Cancer awareness thing last fall and I hadn't done more that ten pen's total up untill then. I did make mistakes but I had some extra blanks made up. By the time I was finished with that and Christmas Pens I was totaly burned out for 6 weeks and didn't touch the Lathe. I am retired so I had plenty of time to do them but still got tired. Good luck and hope everythings works out.

Tom

 

[LanceD]

I would definately do acrylics because you can turn and finish them in one process but if they wanted wood I would go with stabilized wood. Also on your initial order I would order a good quantity of extra tubes. So you don't get in a rut drill and glue in quantities of 10 to 20 at a time and then turn them before starting on the next batch. Another good idea would be to maybe offer 5 types of wood instead of only one. It gets boring real fast after doing about twenty barrels and knowing you still have eighty left to do.

 

[Rmartin]

I agree with Tom about buying extra stuff. I buy extra tubes every time I place an order. And yet, I never seem to have extra tubes.

A plastic polish can be the only finish needed on a stablized wood. Berea is a good source for quanity, but I'd call to make sure they have enough of the blank you want. If cost is an issue (stablized can be costly) my next choice would be olive wood. Easy to turn, and polishes nicely.

As far as how to go about production, that's a personal thing I guess, and personally, I would do 10 or 20 at a time. For one, you can burn up a drill bit in a hurry drilling 100 blanks at one time. Also, if you make a mistake at any point, you've only make that mistake on a few pens, no the whole kit and kaboodle. Of course, I never make mistakes

 

[Texatdurango]

Originally posted by warreng8170

.....The big question I have is about the wood. I need to find something that can attain a hi-gloss finish with as little work as possible. I normally use CA and can get glass-like results, but it also takes a while. I doubt I would be able to finish 100 pens with CA in a reasonable time-frame.....

Warren, First, congratulations on landing a nice order this would be a nice way to get your work out. But the one paragraph above seemed to send a mixed signal. Is it your goal to provide some quality pens and hopefully attract some follow up business or just crank out a few handfuls of pens as quick as possible?

To begin with, what kind of pen caught the attention of the folks you are dealing with? Was it one of your nice glass like CA finished pens or just a pen you whipped out with as little work as possible? Sounds like they will be expecting one thing and you will be providing another and it could almost be construed as a bait and switch if you think about it! I'd sure hate to see your opportunity backfire on you.

If it were me, I would go ahead and make 100 pens JUST LIKE I NORMALLY WOULD and give the customer what they are expecting and what you consider your best work! Why offer anything less than your best effort?

 

[warreng8170]

George, thanks for pointing this out to me. What I hear in my head and how that gets interpreted by someone else aren't always the same thing.

I did not mean to imply that I want to produce anything less than my best work. Considering this will be the first impression these people have of my work, it would be counterproductive to give them anything second-rate. After all, I am looking for these to hopefully generate more orders! And it would also be the equivalent of a bait-and-switch on my company. Not at all what I intend to do.

What I was MEANT to ask was if stabilized wood, by it's nature, could yield an equally impressive finish, if take through the same sanding steps, as CA. Basically, does the substance used for stabilization take the place of the CA? Based one of the posts in my last thread, I thought that maybe there is a method of finishing this type of material that I have not explored that may be just as effective as what I am already doing.

Again, thanks for bring this up as it give me a chance to clarify my intentions for anyone else who may participate in this conversation.

 

[turned_for_good]

I would be checking the avaliablility of the kits right now. I ran into a problem with Sierras a while ago that no one had them in stock and I had to beg of people on the forums to help me out with them.

 

[rlharding]

Warren, lots of good feedback for you. I am on the side of doing the pens in batches of 10. I recently completed an order of only 20 using assorted woods; I would say I was bored out of my brains by #12. I couldn't imagine doing 100 unless I had several months in which to complete them.

I'm not clear if you have to use the same wood for all 100, or, if they will all be wood with no acrylics.

You might want to look at the tutorial on lacquer dipping on the home page. I didn't get a successful result when I tried it, but I also knew that I shouldn't expect one as I was working in a very unclean environment through sheer laziness. I hadn't cleaned up from my previous batch. I also did my best to make the threaded rod and bolts but I didn't understand one of the steps. Consequently I ended up with fingerprints and too much handling. What did get covered was very nice and glossy.

As has been suggested I would get the kits asap so that you have them.

Have you asked for part payment up front so that you can buy everything? Some of the vendors here sell spectacular wood and who knows, for 100 they may do a quantity discount. Also, I think Monty's boxes are cheaper than the velvet bags. One of the guys also sells a polishing kit for $2. Maybe you can get quantity discounts there also. It's definitely a nice added touch.

Bringing in your wife is also a great idea, and if your kids are old enough they could do something too. Even marking the grain direction prior to cutting would save you time and give them a sense of 'working'.

Keep us posted as you have been. And good luck.

 

[Buzz]

If you do get them to go with the Sierra you have had a major win anyway. No pen is easier to make. I would suggest doing them in batches of at least 10 and preferably 20. With an order of this size, I think you will be surprised how quickly your finishing technique improves to the point where you are achieving your usual high quality finish a whole lot quicker than previously. And of course you are only doing one barrel instead of two per pen.

Stabilised blanks will probably not make the finishing any easier, but the additional cost will eat into your profit margin.

The US market seems quite different to the Australian one, in that "exotic" timbers seem far more acceptable to your customers. I find the exotic timbers very hard to sell, people here want Aussie timbers. Perhaps you should be looking at a timber that is endemic to your area, or at least one of the "iconic" US timber. This too will keep your costs down.

And congratulations on the sale.

 

[markgum]

in my short time of pen turning; I would do them in batches and make sure the kit stuff stays with the blank as much as possible. I drilled; glued a bunch then found out half way through the tubes in some were shorter than others. went back through my stash of kits found out the pencils were shorter back around in circles I went.. so imho small batches are better..
Congrats on the order keep us informed of how things go.

 

[fiferb]

I'm a little different than most in that I have pens in various stages of completion at any given time. Here's my process and it keeps work continuously flowing. I have a cardboard box at different stations around the shop. Here's the steps.

1. Match kit and blank, mark for cutting and put it all in one bag together. Put in box by saw.
2. Cut blank, put bag in box at drill press.
3. Drill, put bag in box at glueing table.
4. Glue, after glue dries put bag in box at milling station.
5. Mill ends, put bag in box by lathe.
6. Turn, finish, buff, and assemble.

I usually have several kits in each of these stations at any given time. This process allows me to focus on any bottle necks or on any particular place that is getting behind. It also allows me to work on other areas when glue is drying, to drill slowly and prevent heat buildup. I also don't get bored by only doing one thing all day.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[MDWine]

Congrats on the order... i think!?!

Just out of curiousity, what is your time-frame? I applaud your efforts, but it would make me crazy to HAVE to go make pens to meet a deadline... but that's just me.

Good luck, I'm sure they'll be thrilled!

 

[Blind_Squirrel]

I need to find something that can attain a hi-gloss finish with as little work as possible

I will echo the use of acrylics for this. With a Beale Buffing system it takes me 3-4 minutes to get a glass shine on an acrylic blank.

If the customer is set on a non-stabilized wood I would look into lacquer dipping.

 

[Rudy Vey]

Warren, I use now for quite some time a CA finish that is fast and has great results. I learned it from Rich Kleinhenz (Scubaman here) at the AAW meeting in Louisville, some two years ago. It goes like this:
just sand nicely to at least 400 or 600 grit
apply a coat of thin CA, dry with spray accelerant (not the pump sprayer), my lathe runs about 200-300 rpm when applying CA
sand with 400 grit Abranet
apply 2-3 more coats of thin CA, always dry after the CA
then start sanding with the MM from the 1500 through 4000 and finish with either Novus Fine or an automotive polish

The whole procedure lasts only a couple to three minutes and the results are excellent and, thats important for me, repeatable. The CA is applied with a folded kitchen towel, I just use the store brand of either Sam, Costco or BJ's. After every application of CA and drying, I run my finger over the spinning blank to feel if there are any ridges, if so, I use the 400 Abranet to smooth out before the next coat.
Just last night I timed myself how long it takes from beginning of the turning to taking of the finished barrel for assembly for a Sierra click - 7 min - and this could be repeated on all four pens I turned.
Since I started to use the thin CA my CA finish improved drastically. Before I always struggled with CA finish when using medium CA.

 

[lwalden]

Warren- a recommendation for you on the glue-up. I normally use CA for gluing in the tubes for small runs, but when dealing with a "production" run of 20 or more, I prefer gorilla glue. Use the baseplate wax Bill Baumbeck carries at Ariz Silhouette to plug at least one end of the brass tube (I plug both ends when using CA). Have all hundred of your Sierra blanks all ready cut to slightly oversize and drilled. Go ahead and get all the brass set up with at least one end plugged. Have a small container (I use some of my wife's tupperware) of water handy (polyurethane glues use moisture as a catalyst). Dip the blank in the water, apply the glue to the inside of the blank, insert the tube (wax plugged end first) with a twisting motion and a little back and forth during the process. I normally have the blank angled up pretty steeply, bringing the tube in from the bottom, and go through two or three complete revolutions of the tube twisting it in as the tube is inserted to spread the glue thoroughly. The glue expands and foams up (place them on a piece of wax paper while they're setting up) as it cures, so keep an eye on the blanks to make sure your tube doesn't get pushed partially out of either end during this process. Bill Baumbeck gave me the tip that you can throw a small rubberband around your blank endwise to keep the tubes from traveling out during the curing process. Cleanup of the squeezeout with polyurethane is easier than with any other glue, you wont have fuming issues from CA, or some of the time constraints of using epoxy. I'd be suprised if you don't cut your average glue-up time in at least half by using this process.

 

[Russianwolf]

Hey Warren, good to hear that it went through after all.

If it were me, I'd contact Jimmy over at WPP and get the two-tone Tapa since they look a bit nicer and will hold up longer, and buying 100 of them would put them at $5.25 each plus the shipping.

I would say that I'd add them to the group buy, but that's a done deal now (money sent).

I am with the others in doing them in smaller (10-15) batches and trying lacquer dipping since it can be a nearly 0 effort finish. (dip, hang, go do something else, repeat, buff) but it does take more time to fully cure.

good luck with the effort.

 

[dbriski]

Depending if you wife/family wants to help. You could easily set up a blank cutting jig that they could use to cut all your blanks to size. Drilling is quite easy for them to do also if you have a good drilling vice. I would probably handle the glue / true up my self and the turning. They could help scuff all the tubes before gluing too. If you use a mandrel, you can turn 2 blanks at the same time, though I would suggest JohnnyCNC's Bushings for one at a time.

 

[jdoug5170]

Way back when, before Mr. Gore invented the internet, back when folks used a pen daily, still wrote out checks and LETTERS! I was turning lots of 100 pens at a time for corporate customers. Fortunately, laser engravers were starting to make there entrance and I found someone local so I did not have to use a hammer and chisel for the corp logo.

What we (my two daughters and I) did was to set up 3 lathes. They would load the blanks, I would turn and sand and then they would apply the finish. I don't remember exactly, but I was using some type of lacquer finish, I think it was called French lacquer. They would then buff when dry, remove the finished blanks, bag them in their own bag and reload the lathe.

I of course spent much time prior to the turning frenzy, cutting, drilling, and tubing the blanks. The biggest challenge seemed to be keeping the pair of blanks together and getting the orientation correct for the grain to match though out the process.

And yes, turning the same kit over and over again got old, but back then we only had 3-4 kits to choose from!

And today, I get to blame it all on the internet for getting back into this pen turning stuff again... to many really nice examples of work by many to entice one. Dang the Mr. Gore!

Doug

 

[JohnU]

Hi Warren, Congrats on the order and it looks like youre getting tons of advise. My self, Ive dont orders of fifty and sixty at a time and like to do ten or twenty at a time. It breaks up the work a bit by not burning out on the same thing over and over, and since I use a brushed lacquer for a finish, I put three coats and move on to the next ten. This gives them drying time while I do the next set. By the time I finish all of them, it gives me time to buff and assemble each set of ten or twenty per day until theyre all done. I also apple a couple layers of thin CA between the second and third sanding grit which fills all of the grain and leaves the pen very smooth for a better finish. Good Luck! John