Kit and blank matching

[Andrew_K99]

A recent thread [this one] got me thinking about how others match up blanks to kits. Obviously aesthetically they have to match but how about value (I say value because quality is so subjective).

Will you match up any kit with any blank or do you take into account the value of each? Would you put a $1 blank on a $50 kit or put a $15 blank on a $5 kit?

I personally take this into consideration, I'm just curious what others do.

AK

 

[Displaced Canadian]

To me the cost isn't the first thing I think about. It is fairly easy to go over the top with a busy expensive kit and a busy expensive blank.

 

[edicehouse]

I will put a crappy blank on an inexpensive kit. I don't think I would put a $10 burl on a 2$ slimline, unless that is what the customer wanted.

 

[edicehouse]

Wait what am I talking about I put brooks blanks on a cigar!

 

[ed4copies]

If you purchase an expensive blank and put it on a 24kt hardware, when the buyer uses it for 4 months and the gold starts wearing---he's not likely to congratulate you on your workmanship the next time he sees you.

Another angle: If you are using a thin pen and putting a great burl on it, you will "turn away" most of the beauty.

So, yes it pays to look at the 'turned blank' and determine where it should be used.

When we did shows, I did this often with the Junior series. Turn the pen to fit a Junior Gent. But, if it looked really good, it got mounted on Junior Statesman hardware.

Nice to be able to decide AFTER it is "pen size".

FWIW,

Ed

 

[Turned Around]

it's not exactly a simple answer. some $3 blanks look great on an emporer, and some mixes on a $15 blanks look better on a copper plated cigar. i TRY to match the blanks look with the kits look. sometimes i just pick out the blank, the kit, then figure out the plating when it's done being turned.

 

[Russianwolf]

this is why I turn blanks round before cutting. Especially burls.

Some are okay, and some are special.

It also allows you to find the best section of the blank so that the scrap is the worst part.

Hard to tell this from a square blank, you gotta find out what on the inside. :wink:

 

[Haynie]

I choose the kit first, then decide what to dress it in most of the time. For the other times the blank will dictate pretty strongly.

By the way I chose C because I assumed it meant all of the above.

 

[thewishman]

It is interesting to think about expensive blanks. A few years ago a $15 blank was considered very pricey. Now $50 blanks are relatively common, $100 blanks are available from several suppliers and there are blanks that range up to $200. I am sure that you could commission even more expensive blanks without much trouble.

 

[Texatdurango]

I'm glad you used the term "Value" rather than "price paid" since in my opinion some of the prices being asked for blanks these days is outrageous. The pen blank industry is alive and well!

Personally, I look more at how the blank goes with the kit rather than how much I paid for a blank.

Take a high end kit such as a Lotus or Imperial for example. With their embellishments, they are already so decorative that adding a "loud" blank or a blank with a lot of visable features would just clash. I would match up blanks with "a lot going on" to kits which are nice but don't have all the extra bling on the clips, finials and center bands.

Since Mhbeauford's blank obviously inspired this thread, I will use his latest pen as an example. I think his latest pen ( http://www.penturners.org/forum/f13/jr-gent-weave-inlay-98289/ ) shows a very well done blank on a nice kit but I probably would have gone with a similar kit without the black threads. This blank, while difficult and time consuming to make, would not look at home on a Lotus pen or other pen with a lot of embellishment.

Just another opinion.......

 

[mrcook4570]

If I am working on a custom order, then the customer is always right. If I am working on building up inventory, then I will make whatever I am low on. I used to be more picky, but my shop is overrun with wood and blanks. It is just too difficult to say no to a pretty piece of wood.

Besides, some people like gold, regardless of the material. Some people prefer silver.Some people like thick pens. Some people like thin pens. Someone will eventually buy it no matter what the combination.

 

[Russianwolf]

okay I may have misread.

If you are asking " do you put expensive blanks only on expensive kits, and cheap blanks only on cheap kits" then my answer is no.

If you are asking "do you choose the kit based on the blank" then yes.

I've had some cheap burls that look better on expensive kits than expensive burls. I've also seen people put a $3 black resin on a $50 Lotus that looks outstanding.

 

[azamiryou]

I certainly match the components to the blank, but not so much on "quality". Regardless of price, I want all my pens for sale to be top quality, so they are made with top quality kits using top quality blanks. I have no qualms about putting a nice burl on a quality slimline kit. People who prefer a slim pen deserve nice pens, too!

I do occasionally end up with lower-priced kits in swaps and such, ones I don't intend to sell. Naturally, I will use a scrap wood blank or some such on it, nothing I especially value. So in that sense, I guess I do "take this into consideration".

As for the weave inlay pen - I actually like the selected components. I have no personal experience with the Jr. Gent with black threads, so maybe they do have a "cheap" feel to them, but the black threads on the Navigator/Baron don't bother me, and are useful as a design element. In this particular case, I find the black threads nicely complement the black details in the blank.

 

[Andrew_K99]

Thanks all for the feedback thus far, I agree with almost everything said.

It is certainly a grey zone as sometimes that $15 blank doesn't look all that great when turned and sometimes that free wood blank looks fantastic.

AK

 

[Texatdurango]

Thanks all for the feedback thus far, I agree with almost everything said.

It is certainly a grey zone as sometimes that $15 blank doesn't look all that great when turned and sometimes that free wood blank looks fantastic.

AK

True, true, one of my favorite, most "expensive, executive looking" pens was a simple solid gloss black blank with a few silver embellishments added, the blank cost me a couple dollars to make.

 

[ed4copies]

Remember all wood grows on trees.

In remote corners of the world, a curly or birdseye maple can be very valuable. To me, it is "free wood". Conversely, I have read that zebrawood is burned in Africa for heat or to cook. Here, it's pricey. So, you were correct to stipulate "valuable" but value is also in the eye of the buyer. Additionally, the pen buyer has no idea what you paid for the materials, so you work to make an attractive pen--then YOU assign the value.

 

[tim self]

Cost of a blank is just one area of concern. If you have a RARE wood, i.e. American Chestnut, the wood itself will sell the pen. My last one was absolutely beautiful and sold for $250. I have no problem putting this on a Jr. State or similar. Then again, I haven't put a M3 Damascus steel on a Jr. State but a Gent.

 

[Smitty37]

I'm sort of mixed on this.....but having received probably more pens turned by others than most I can tell you this....a good blank on a low cost component set can make a pretty darn decent pen that would sell at a profitable price.

I personally own $7 - $8 kit dressed in a $50 custom blank that I am sure would fetch $250 without the buyer batting an eye. I'm also pretty sure that if you put the blank on a similar style kit costing double that kit price the end product would sell for about the same price. In my case the blank was made knowing the style and finish of the kit it was goin on. I also spent an extra couple of bucks and put a Schmidt Refill in it so it writes like a dream as well as looking great.

The point is - you are selling a pen - you are not selling a blank and pen components (that's what you are buying but not what you're selling) so you want the whole picture. I doubt most buyers are going to care what you paid for the blank or the components they will want to see how it looks feels and writes. Now a high priced nib can make a big difference in how a fountain pen writes but in ballpoints and rollerballs you can get great results with a $3.00 refill even in a $5.00 kit.

 

[Andrew_K99]

Good points Smitty, but isn't that like the kids that put $2000 worth of rims and tires and a $1000 stereo in a $500 Honda Civic? They still own a $500 Honda Civic at the end if the day.

Typicially these "cheaper" kits are cheaper for a reason.

AK

 

[Smitty37]

I think that is an apples and oranges comparison. Would that "kid" part with that civic for $500? I think not.

In 1979 I bought an automobile for $6500 - one of my co-workers bought the same make and model with the same options for $8200. The two cars had a very minor difference in the 'shipping' charge on the sticker, otherwise they were identical except for color. He bought his 1 month before I bought mine. What was the "reason" for the difference in price? Whatever it was, it was not that he got a better car.

 

[RSQWhite]

Good points Smitty, but isn't that like the kids that put $2000 worth of rims and tires and a $1000 stereo in a $500 Honda Civic? They still own a $500 Honda Civic at the end if the day.

Typicially these "cheaper" kits are cheaper for a reason.

AK

Excellent point. But is an Emperor kit BETTER than a $20.00 kit or jus more expensive because of the amount of Bling.
When I am faced with these options, I remember the imortal words of Jeff Foxworthy. "Have you ever seen glitter paint on a yatch?"

Thanks for listening:

Tim

PS When selling a pen the do what the customer wants.

 

[Smitty37]

Good points Smitty, but isn't that like the kids that put $2000 worth of rims and tires and a $1000 stereo in a $500 Honda Civic? They still own a $500 Honda Civic at the end if the day.

Typicially these "cheaper" kits are cheaper for a reason.

AK

Excellent point. But is an Emperor kit BETTER than a $20.00 kit or jus more expensive because of the amount of Bling.
When I am faced with these options, I remember the imortal words of Jeff Foxworthy. "Have you ever seen glitter paint on a yatch?"

Thanks for listening:

Tim

PS When selling a pen the do what the customer wants.

That would depend on the value you put on "Bling". Part of the price is related to the manufacturing cost which is obviously higher for some of the high end kits.

 

[Andrew_K99]

I think that is an apples and oranges comparison. Would that "kid" part with that civic for $500? I think not.

He may not part with it for $500 but he couldn't sell it for close to what he's put into it, it's still a $500 car.

AK

 

[Smitty37]

I think that is an apples and oranges comparison. Would that "kid" part with that civic for $500? I think not.

He may not part with it for $500 but he couldn't sell it for close to what he's put into it, it's still a $500 car.

AK

Not to him it isn't.

The value is not $500.00. The free market value is what a ready, willing and able buyer acting freely and under no obligation to buy will pay and a ready, willing and able seller acting freely under no duress or obligation to sell will accept.

If you make a pen, regardless of what you make it from, the above rule applies. How much you pay for the components comes into the equation only to the degree it effects how much you will accept.

One other thing that should be considered: There are kit sellers who sell the same exact kits as other sellers for much higher prices (one in particular gets mentioned here quite often). Is the buyer getting a better kit? No, it's the same kit. Is the pen turned and built using the cheaper kit worth less? Of course not.

Why are buyers paying more one place than the other - because of the venue, in the above case it is buying from a brick and morter store vs buying on line.

While you as a buyer, might well find one brand to be superior to another, you can't assume that the price will be an indicator of that superiority.

 

[Andrew_K99]

An expression, that I'll probably butcher is "you can put lipstick and mascarra on a pig but that doesn't change that it's a pig".

I highly doubt an awesome blank on a Jr Gent 1 (the kit that led me to start the other thread) will yield a high price tag, it's still a lower priced kit. A quality kit is needed to make a quality pen IMO.

AK

 

[Smitty37]

An expression, that I'll probably butcher is "you can put lipstick and mascarra on a pig but that doesn't change that it's a pig".

I highly doubt an awesome blank on a Jr Gent 1 (the kit that led me to start the other thread) will yield a high price tag, it's still a lower priced kit. A quality kit is needed to make a quality pen IMO.

AK

I said: If you make a pen, regardless of what you make it from, the above rule applies. How much you pay for the components comes into the equation only to the degree it effects how much you will accept.

You're saying the same thing - and stating at least one factor that will effect what you're willing to accept.

A new Yugo won't sell for the same price as a new Mercedes no matter what color it is...that has nothing to do with the question this thread is asking.

 

[Texatdurango]

An expression, that I'll probably butcher is "you can put lipstick and mascarra on a pig but that doesn't change that it's a pig".

I highly doubt an awesome blank on a Jr Gent 1 (the kit that led me to start the other thread) will yield a high price tag, it's still a lower priced kit. A quality kit is needed to make a quality pen IMO.

AK

But.............. just because a blank looks awesome and WE know how hard and time consuming it was to make, doesn't necessarily mean it needs to go on a high end pen kit, MOST of which are highly ornate to begin with and would only clash with a "busy" blank. A high end pen with a reserved looking blank looks great in a board room meeting but one with a striped wood blank might not look as appropriate.

My opinion (and we all have one) is that a highly figured or "busy" blank is well at home on a Jr Gent that has nice plating but isn't covered with different colored metal embellishments.

 

[Smitty37]

An expression, that I'll probably butcher is "you can put lipstick and mascarra on a pig but that doesn't change that it's a pig".

I highly doubt an awesome blank on a Jr Gent 1 (the kit that led me to start the other thread) will yield a high price tag, it's still a lower priced kit. A quality kit is needed to make a quality pen IMO.

AK

But.............. just because a blank looks awesome and WE know how hard and time consuming it was to make, doesn't necessarily mean it needs to go on a high end pen kit, MOST of which are highly ornate to begin with and would only clash with a "busy" blank. A high end pen with a reserved looking blank looks great in a board room meeting but one with a striped wood blank might not look as appropriate.

My opinion (and we all have one) is that a highly figured or "busy" blank is well at home on a Jr Gent that has nice plating but isn't covered with different colored metal embellishments.

I would also mention that pens and thus pen kits are made for markets with a wide price range pens made from component sets sell for from $12 dollars or so to over a thousand dollars.

Someone who is going after the $50.00 pen market isn't going to be looking at $50 kits (or blanks) and someone going after the $500 - $1000 market isn't going to be looking at $5.00 to $10.00 kits and blanks.

 

[GaryMGg]

An expression, that I'll probably butcher is "you can put lipstick and mascarra on a pig but that doesn't change that it's a pig".

I highly doubt an awesome blank on a Jr Gent 1 (the kit that led me to start the other thread) will yield a high price tag, it's still a lower priced kit. A quality kit is needed to make a quality pen IMO.

AK

You mutated from price to quality to value.
Value is relative and is a perceived thing. What you value, I may not and vice-versa.
Quality is, or should be, a rather empirical attribute measurable against some particular and appropriate set of standards.

I would suggest the quality of a good chrome slimline can rival the quality of a chrome Baron yet the Baron kit will always be more expensive.
However, I'd place more value on a very nicely made chrome slimline than a poorly made Baron.
Value drives price. Quality is too often overlooked by both sellers and buyers.