Jr. Gent and Jr. Statesman Concerns

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ericatcraft

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I wanted to post a reply to many of the concerns that have come to our attention regarding the Jr. Gentlemen and Jr. Statesman pens. First I want to thank all of you who have brought these issues to our attention and I also want to assure everyone that we are currently hand checking every single pen in our inventory to make sure that from here on all pens that are shipped are not defective. If anyone has a pen that is defective or that you are not happy with for any reason please call our customer service center and we’ll arrange for either an exchange or a complete refund.

First, there has been a problem with some of our roller ball nibs and the ink refills. The refill won’t quite fit through the nib. We have determined that a step was skipped in the manufacturing process, the nibs were not polished before they were plated, consequently the inside diameter of the nib is slightly too small on some of the pens so the refill does not fit through. We are happy to replace any nib that has this problem, a simple phone call to us and we’ll mail you for free a replacement nib that you can thread on the pens you have. If you already have a pen assembled and do not want to wait for a replacement part you can use a 3/32†drill bit to fix the problem. Simply insert the bit and rotate it lightly by hand to ream the inside edge of the nib and the refill should fit just fine.

Second: On a recent batch of Jr. gentlemen pens we found that a small percentage of them have had a problem with the nib coupler- it is a little too loose in the brass tube (can be inserted by hand). This was a problem when this particular batch was machined and we are checking every pen before shipping so new pen orders should be free of this problem. If you have a pen with this problem we are happy to send you a new coupler that will fit better. Again, if you don’t want to wait it is a simple fix to glue the part into the tube, we recommend using a thick CA glue and applying a very small amount to the inside of the tube before assembling the pen (with a toothpick, for example). I know that many professional turners recommend gluing any part that has threads or tension from a spring to ensure that parts don’t become loose over time- Dick Sing recommends this in his book Pens From The Wood Lathe.

Third: We have also received feedback that the 27/64†drill bit is too large a bit for these pens and I wanted to address this as well. This is the best drill bit we can find for this pen kit and here is why: as you know all species of wood drill slightly differently, some softer woods and materials drill slightly larger than a dense hardwood even with the exact same setup and drill. If you get a smaller bit than the 27/64†bit we have found that harder woods, Cocobolo for example, may drill too small but the 27/64†is right on. It is a matter of the best fit possible, with all materials possible to turn we feel it is best to recommend a bit that will slightly over drill some materials (and it is very slightly) than a bit that will leave the hole too small with other materials. I have personally made about a dozen of these pens (I realize that is very small time compared to most of you!) and have encountered no problems at all with this bit. If the hole is a little large I have just used a drop or two more of glue and had no problem after that. If you find that all the materials you use are ending up with a hole that is too large we can recommend a 10.5mm drill bit as the best fit for the tube. I know this is a hard size to find but I have heard that MSC (www.mscdirect.com) sells them.

Fourth: Regarding the design of the roller ball nib for the Jr. Gentlemen and Statesman pens, I want to explain the reason for the change. Before I do that I apologize that our website has not been updated with the new photo before today, that was a major oversight on our part and I understand that it is frustrating to order something and then get a different product than was pictured. We are happy to give anyone an exchange for a different pen or a complete refund for any pens that you do not want due to our mistake- just call our customer service staff and they’ll take care of it for you. I believe we’ll have a new photo online today. The reason the nibs were changed is largely due to the threading issues with earlier versions of the pen, the new nib lines up better and the cap is easier to thread onto the nib. That is the main reason for the change- we wanted to improve the functionality of the pen by making the nib slightly larger. The design is similar to other high end pens on the market. In such publications as Penworld many high end pens are featured with a nib similar in style to our new nib. Again I apologize for the web not being current as it should have been, please call us if you no longer want the pens you received and we’ll either exchange or refund the pens no questions asked.

We appreciate all that forum members do to support Craft Supplies USA and assure you that we will continue to find ways to improve our products and services to you, our valued customers.
 
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JimGo

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Eric,
I have two words for you: Thank you. Thank you (and the rest of CSUSA) for the professional manner in which the feedback was received and handled, but most of all thank you for actually LISTENING. Let's face it, although I'm sure CSUSA sells a LOT of pen kits every year, that market, compared to wood turning as a whole, consumer products, etc., is still relatively small. I work with companies MUCH larger than CSUSA, most of whom do not have a designated indivdual (or individuals) who monitor and/or contribute to the various discussion forums that might discuss their products.

Although some may not agree with design decisions, drill bit recommendations, etc., I appreciate that you are willing to come and discuss them with us. I also really appreciate that you are willing to refer your customers to alternative sources for products that you could easily carry yourselves.

So, again, thank you!
 

Randy_

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Eric: Can you tell us what the ODs are for the Jr Gent/Statesman pens, please? As I recall, the recommended drill bit size by turners on this forum was for a 13/32" bit.

As to your recommendation of a 10.5mm drill bit, I am wondering if you guys tried a "Z" letter drill bit? It is only 0.0004" smaller than a 10.5mm bit and many folks already have that particular size in their drill bit sets.

You might also note that there is a thread running on TPS that suggests a 10.6mm bit is a better choice for the Sierra kit so don't think that CSUSA is the only manufacturer to have this type of problem.
 

DCBluesman

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Eric - this reply is not aimed at you as you are just the messenger. What I'm hoping is that you will make sure that Ben and the executives see that all is not happy in pen turner land.

Ok, there's one like me in every crowd. Did everybody drink the Kool-Aid this afternoon? First off, the pictures are still wrong. Next, these kits are far too expensive and have been out for a while, so I'm not thrilled to hear that you are having to go back through a quality check. Also, and this part sounds like the Rex and Ben story, that nib doesn't look much like anything I see in the past three issues or Pen World, including the Preview Issue, or in Stylus. Bullet-shaped, yes, but these holders have a coronal ridge for crying out loud! Come on, guys. Don't pee on my shoes and tell me it's raining.

The only part of this answer that is the least bit satisfying is that I can get my money back. I'll be going through my kits and calling customer service, all of whom are delightful to deal with.
 

gerryr

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I appreciate your response and, like Lou, understand you are only the messenger. Take it for what it's worth, but I will not be purchasing any more Jr. Gentleman or Jr. Statesman or Jr. Emperor rollerballs as long as the nib looks like it does. Fountain pens yes, rollerballs no. That means of course that I will be purchasing more Baron rollerballs. I feel like we've all been blind-sided by the design change. We are the customers and it seems to me that it would have been better for everyone if we had been given an opportunity to comment on the new design before we suddenly started getting them without any warning whatsoever. As far as the threading issue leading to the design change, I don't buy that. I have made quite a few Jr. Statesman rollerballs and never had one single problem with the threads on the nib coupler. The threading issue could have easily been corrected without changing the design.
 

Firefyter-emt

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And yet, the only part I have had break on my Jr. Statesman is the thread coupler. [:(!] I sure hope the replacement come's in before Christmas..

I mentioned the photos in my post about the fountain pen nibs being wrong too. There are probably well over a hundred pen turners here that could take photos good enough to be in the catalogs and would be thrilled beyond belief to have "their" photo in the next issue. Heck, a "new kit give away" to the best photo would even be a cool PR move, but to have the same old wrong photos print after print is just wrong. I realize that we may not have a big say in the design change itself, but there is a vast resource you guys could tap into to make the photos AND descriptions to reflect what is in print, and without excuse, on the website. I understand that you can't recall magazines because there was a change, but the website should reflect the proper kit.

Funny thing, the refrence to the nib style has been mentioned to my wife before too. (who has a purple Corian Jr. Gent herself.)
 

Ron Mc

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Eric...First I would like to say that I am impressed that you posted your post.

Now in regards to the new nib. Neither my customers or I had any problems with the threading issue on the JG II or JS II threads. The problem had already been solved with the insert.

Please let the decision makers know that they have made an error in the new design. To me it almost looks like they wanted to create a new nib that resembled the "cartridge" fad that hit about 6 months ago.

[edit in]
One more question. When CSU decided to no longer offer the posting (threaded) bottom for the JGII as a separate SKU # this eliminated to opportunity to sell the JSII with the posting bottom. You may want to consider offering the JSII the same way that the JGII is offered. Either with a tapered or threaded bottom. Or let us purchase the threaded bottoms again.[;)]
 

Monty

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Eric,
First I would like to echo the statements above about CSUSA listening to our complaints and your taking the time to answer.
Second, I would offer the same statement that Ron Mc posted about a posting bottom for the JSII. I've had lost several sales because the customer wanted a pen that posts. Please consider to at least offer the option of purchasing the the threaded bottom for the JSII separately.
 

Mikey

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Ron, gotta agree there. Each time I order something, I always tried to order a few extra ends just in case someone wanted something different.

As far as the other stuff goes, I don't know why any changes because the original ones worked fine as far as I could tell. I didn't have any problems with mine.

If anything, i'd like to see CSUSA offer barrel trimmers for all these different tube sizes they now have. It's a total PIA trying to get CA out of the tube when the reamer is undersize.
 

Skye

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Man, you guys rock.

All I want to know is; When will you start <b>chrome plating</b> the Jr Gents for monetarily challenged folks like myself?
 

TAld

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Skye - you mentioned "monetarily challenged" but I have lost a couple of sells because the customer wanted chrome and it was unavailable for that item. Pen and Pencil were available in chrome but not the letter opener or perfume atomizer (all for the wife) for gift. I wish ALL "kits" came in all the different plating. Would it be that difficult or expensive for a company to provide?
 

Randy_

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Originally posted by TAld
<br />Would it be that difficult or expensive for a company to provide?

Short answer is yes. One of the major expenses that most businesses have to deal with is that of inventory Simply put, they are only going to stock what sells......in sufficient quantity for them to make a profit. Inventory that just sits on the shelves is a big problem.

I'm sure CSUSA would put out a chrome version if they thought there was sufficient demand.......for example everyone wanted a really nice high end kit and out came the Emperor. Send your emails to CSUSA and let them know what you want. If enough people do that, I'm sure you will see a response.
 

Skye

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Originally posted by TAld
<br />Skye - you mentioned "monetarily challenged" but I have lost a couple of sells because the customer wanted chrome and it was unavailable for that item.

I think we're talking about the same thing. I cant afford Rhodium plating on a JrGent, so I think chrome would be a nice, affordable alternative and more durable than 24 or 10K gold.
 

rtgleck

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Eric,

Thanks for acknowledging responses and comments here are being heard and taken into consideration. Hopefully the information above will also be passed on, but wanted to at least thank you for ensuring comments here are being addressed.
 

Firefyter-emt

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Honestly, this is one kit I would rather not see in chrome. Only because there would be ones out there "cheaper" but look just the same as the rhoidum to the standard user. That alone could drive the higher sales market down. Lower price would be nice though.

Originally posted by Skye
<br />
Originally posted by TAld
<br />Skye - you mentioned "monetarily challenged" but I have lost a couple of sells because the customer wanted chrome and it was unavailable for that item.

I think we're talking about the same thing. I cant afford Rhodium plating on a JrGent, so I think chrome would be a nice, affordable alternative and more durable than 24 or 10K gold.
 

LanceD

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All I want to know is; When will you start <b>chrome plating</b> the Jr Gents for monetarily challenged folks like myself?

Why not try the chrome Baron ? On sale from AS is around 6.80. Not a bad price considering all of the issues with thr Jr Gents.
 
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Thanks Eric,
I appreciate the well written post and I support many of the comments here on the design changes and also the issue with the 27/64 drill.

All Said Life moves on, I only use the rhodium kits, they sell well, I have had issues with new and old stock mixed in a pen kit package ... it's pain to call for replacement parts but I am glad that you get them to me quickly..
Thumbs Up Buddy!
 

Mikey

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Originally posted by gerryr
<br />I agree with Lance, chrome Barons are not expensive and good looking pens.

There's a reason that some people would rather not buy the Baron pens. If you've been reading long enough here, you know why.
 

LanceD

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Originally posted by Mikey
<br />
Originally posted by gerryr
<br />I agree with Lance, chrome Barons are not expensive and good looking pens.

There's a reason that some people would rather not buy the Baron pens. If you've been reading long enough here, you know why.

It's a little hard to keep track of who doesn't get along with who around here.
 

bradbn4

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The real funny part of this mess - when I bought my first Baron - I thought it had the same tip as the Jr. Statesman. Because I had already picked up 50 Barons - I was holding off the the Jr Gent / Jr Statesman until I used up more of my extras.

Now I wish I had bought my JGII/JSII a few months ago for these issues came up with the redesign. I jumped in on the group order - picked up 24 pens + extra bushings, bunches of tubes so I could go whole hog. I guess that money could have better spent on buying more Baron pen kits when they were on sale.

If I were to rate tip design â€" I like the the old style JSII, second would be the Barons. The new design of the Jr Gent reminds me of one of the pen tips from a Fisher space pen â€" but only uglier - and it would rate a distant 4th. (Yes I know that there was no 3rd place)

I find that the chrome plating works well and I have found that the Baron Satin Nickel is another good finish that fits in with tiger maple wood. Both are on the Baron's low end price scale â€" but are durable finish.

Bradbn4 - having fun in Colorado
 

airrat

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Originally posted by LanceD
<br />
Originally posted by Mikey
<br />
Originally posted by gerryr
<br />I agree with Lance, chrome Barons are not expensive and good looking pens.

There's a reason that some people would rather not buy the Baron pens. If you've been reading long enough here, you know why.

It's a little hard to keep track of who doesn't get along with who around here.

LOL
 

les-smith

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Originally posted by bradbn4
<br />I jumped in on the group order - picked up 24 pens + extra bushings, bunches of tubes so I could go whole hog. I guess that money could have better spent on buying more Baron pen kits when they were on sale.

Hey bradbn4, are you planning on sending them back. I'm kind of in the same boat. And, as it stands now, I think I'm going to send them back and go with the Baron.
 

KC

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I just put together the last two 'old' JrStatesman II kits I had. I'd forgotten how much I like the looks of it. [:p]

I'm kind of curious as to why people are looking for 'cheaper' alternatives for the high-end kits... especially when I see some of the prices folks are getting for them. If you can get a chrome JSII kit for $5 less than rhodium, are you gonna drop your asking price by $5, or put the $5 in your pocket? I know the margin on a slimline can be 'slim' and you might go chrome to increase volume... but is anybody selling JSIIs cheap enough that $5 is going to make or break a purchase?

KC
 

Rifleman1776

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Eric, like the others, I thank you and the CS staff for responding. It is certainly helpful to have a link with one of our major suppliers.
However, I must respond to your comments.
Items # 1 & 2: These are quality control issues and by your words, CS admits the defects. Kits with these defects should never have been shipped. These are premium kits and very costly. Many here are familiar with manufacturing costs and understand that the profit margin for CS is quite substantial. We (and any customer) deserves better. Shipping defective merchandise does not speak well for the company.
Item #3: There may be disagreement on this issue. But I, for one, disagree with the finding. A hole is a hole is a hole. Like others, I've drilled a bunch of holes in different woods, if I want a certain size hole I use the drill of that size. If the situation is as you (CS) states, why don't we have one or two, or three, different bits reccomended for each kit? Filling an oversize hole with glue is not craftmanship, it is sloppy and unnecessary, or should be. CS needs to revisit this issue. I, for one, am not happy with this deliberate incorrect reccomendation.
Item #4: I think the new nib is ugly, not worthy of a premium pen kit. But, I guess we are stuck with it. Sales will dictate it's future.
 

Skye

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Originally posted by KC
<br />I just put together the last two 'old' JrStatesman II kits I had. I'd forgotten how much I like the looks of it. [:p]

I'm kind of curious as to why people are looking for 'cheaper' alternatives for the high-end kits... especially when I see some of the prices folks are getting for them. If you can get a chrome JSII kit for $5 less than rhodium, are you gonna drop your asking price by $5, or put the $5 in your pocket? I know the margin on a slimline can be 'slim' and you might go chrome to increase volume... but is anybody selling JSIIs cheap enough that $5 is going to make or break a purchase?

KC

It's also a matter of giving pens away. When you are like me and have given away 75% of your pens, every dollar counts.
 

ed4copies

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Frank,

Relative to margins, BOY, DO I AGREE WITH YOU!!!

Related to drill bits, I decided long ago - Instructions are suggestions, not commandments. Mike the tube, pick the bit, drill the hole and test. REPEAT.

While I could write a long diatribe about these kits, face it CSUSA handles their disasters as they arise. They will have no reason to LISTEN to these threads UNLESS SALES GO DOWN, precipitously would be good!

They are profit-driven! This is NOT a condemnation, it's a statement of fact. And they are very well versed in public relations, and problem-"solving". They can make you feel really good cause they solved all your problems, WHICH THEY CREATED IN THE FIRST PLACE!!! The fact they are so experienced at this indicates they repeatedly allow crap to be shipped.

So, continue to praise them. My feeling is they have far too little competition. If there were better alternatives, MANY of their kits would be abandoned. THEN, quality control would improve.

FWIW (I only buy a couple hundred kits a year).[:0]
 

Randy_

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Originally posted by Rifleman1776
<br />.....I, for one, am not happy with this deliberate incorrect reccomendation.....

I don't have any particular attachment to CSUSA and we all know Frank has a bug in his..#### about the issue of drill sizes. That being said, Frank, I think it is pretty irresponsible to state that CSUSA is deliberately recommending incorrect drill sizes unless you have some proof to back up the charge. There is no doubt that a few of their drill bit recommendations might not be the best; but to suggest that they made deliberately erroneous recommendations is pretty disrespectful(maybe even libelous) unless you can back up your charges with proof. I'm pretty sure Eric won't want to "call" you on the charge for obvious reasons; but I am under no such limitation. I, for one, think an apology is in order.....again.....unless you have proof of wrong doing. [V][V]
 

bradbn4

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Originally posted by KC
<br />I just put together the last two 'old' JrStatesman II kits I had. I'd forgotten how much I like the looks of it. [:p]

I'm kind of curious as to why people are looking for 'cheaper' alternatives for the high-end kits... especially when I see some of the prices folks are getting for them. If you can get a chrome JSII kit for $5 less than rhodium, are you gonna drop your asking price by $5, or put the $5 in your pocket? I know the margin on a slimline can be 'slim' and you might go chrome to increase volume... but is anybody selling JSIIs cheap enough that $5 is going to make or break a purchase?

KC

Simple - the tip design - but I am being a bit funny. While I like the JSII old tip design better than the Baron - I love the many platings that the Baron is offered in...and I discovered the Baron before I found out about the JSII. . .

I may make 100 pens a year - I don't try to sell them - most I give away as gifts. The few that I do sell them - well - it keeps me in new sharp lathe tools.

Not to get into why you price something like that - I use a rule of 3x the cost of goods + 20 dollars. .. so if the hardware cost 15 - I would price it at 45+20 = 65

So if the hardware cost another 5 dollars - I charge an extra 15 - more from the stocking of the more expensive pen kits. (or - this was the only way I could figure out what I should charge other than because I liked that number [8D] )

This rule is for simple designs, simple lathe & finish work. If the work is complex and takes me 3 or 4 pen blanks to get the job done - that cost and labor needs to be accounted for.

Bradbn4
 

mdburn_em

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Very interesting thread. I definitely appreciate a company that at least communicates with it's customers. I was thinking about trying some of the jr kits and now I'm glad I read this. I'll probably stick with the Barons until I see more of a thumbs up from this savy, rowdy, crowd. As far as competition goes, I'm very interested in the new, high end pen that PSI is bringing out. Has anyone else seen the pictures for this? If PSI starts tapping into the high end pen kits, we may have a viable alternative when one or the other (organization) thumbs its nose at it's customers.
 

woodpens

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Eric - Thank you for addressing our concerns. I have a lot of respect for CSU for maintaining this contact.

Like Frank, I am disappointed in the accuracy of the recommended drill bits. I would take it a step further and state that kits should be designed around normal standards, whether it be standard, imperial or metric sizes. Needing a 10.5 or 10.6 mm bit just makes no sense to me.

The Jr. Statesman was my favorite kit before the nib change. The Jr. Gent was my second favorite. I can tell you, without a doubt, I will not purchase another one of either kit with this ugly nib. The Baron beats them hands down since the nib was changed. I sell between $25k and $40k worth of pens per year. If CSU returns to a non-bullet shaped nib, my business will return. I realize my business doesn't put much of a dent in the market, but there are a lot of people who feel as I do.

Please give us a nib that doesn't look obscene. Thanks.
 

Mikey

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Originally posted by Rifleman1776
<br />Item #3: There may be disagreement on this issue. But I, for one, disagree with the finding. A hole is a hole is a hole. Like others, I've drilled a bunch of holes in different woods, if I want a certain size hole I use the drill of that size. If the situation is as you (CS) states, why don't we have one or two, or three, different bits reccomended for each kit? Filling an oversize hole with glue is not craftmanship, it is sloppy and unnecessary, or should be. CS needs to revisit this issue. I, for one, am not happy with this deliberate incorrect reccomendation.


I would have to disagee completely with this statement and go with Eric's. There have been many times where I would be making several of the same type of pen at one time in both acrylic, wood, and resin. I have found that the holes even when drilled with the same bit will be of different sizes when you insert the tubes. In fact, i have found that I need to use thick CS when glueing resin tubes for Sierras, (even after painting the tubes and inside of he blank) but can only use a medium or thin when doing blanks like Cocobolo because the tube has little clearance to start with. This is also true with every other pen that I have made in different combinations.

Also as said before me, you are a penmaker and yu should be the one sizing your drill bit to fit the material. CS can give us all a starting point, and that is normally just fine for the person who makes a few pens for fun, but if you are going to sell them or make a living off of them, you should know enough to do some leg work yourself and make notes of what works well in what material.
 

Rifleman1776

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Originally posted by Randy_
<br />
Originally posted by Rifleman1776
<br />.....I, for one, am not happy with this deliberate incorrect reccomendation.....

I don't have any particular attachment to CSUSA and we all know Frank has a bug in his..#### about the issue of drill sizes. That being said, Frank, I think it is pretty irresponsible to state that CSUSA is deliberately recommending incorrect drill sizes unless you have some proof to back up the charge. There is no doubt that a few of their drill bit recommendations might not be the best; but to suggest that they made deliberately erroneous recommendations is pretty disrespectful(maybe even libelous) unless you can back up your charges with proof. I'm pretty sure Eric won't want to "call" you on the charge for obvious reasons; but I am under no such limitation. I, for one, think an apology is in order.....again.....unless you have proof of wrong doing. [V][V]

They know their reccomendation makes an oversize hole. That is deliberate.
Their other kits generally reccomend a proper bit size.
No apology needed from this end.
 

Rifleman1776

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Originally posted by Mikey
<br />
Originally posted by Rifleman1776
<br />Item #3: There may be disagreement on this issue. But I, for one, disagree with the finding. A hole is a hole is a hole. Like others, I've drilled a bunch of holes in different woods, if I want a certain size hole I use the drill of that size. If the situation is as you (CS) states, why don't we have one or two, or three, different bits reccomended for each kit? Filling an oversize hole with glue is not craftmanship, it is sloppy and unnecessary, or should be. CS needs to revisit this issue. I, for one, am not happy with this deliberate incorrect reccomendation.


I would have to disagee completely with this statement and go with Eric's. There have been many times where I would be making several of the same type of pen at one time in both acrylic, wood, and resin. I have found that the holes even when drilled with the same bit will be of different sizes when you insert the tubes. In fact, i have found that I need to use thick CS when glueing resin tubes for Sierras, (even after painting the tubes and inside of he blank) but can only use a medium or thin when doing blanks like Cocobolo because the tube has little clearance to start with. This is also true with every other pen that I have made in different combinations.

Also as said before me, you are a penmaker and yu should be the one sizing your drill bit to fit the material. CS can give us all a starting point, and that is normally just fine for the person who makes a few pens for fun, but if you are going to sell them or make a living off of them, you should know enough to do some leg work yourself and make notes of what works well in what material.

I have made a total of 3 1/2 non-wood pens so can't speak to sizes varying with synthetics.
I do sell mine but not to the point of making a living, for whatever that is worth or means.
I drill holes for things other than pens. I choose the drill bit size for the size hole I want without regard to the material. Have never had a problem with over/undersize holes in different materials.
Usually, with CS kits, and those from other manufacturers, the drill bit size reccomended is the correct one.
That they reccomend an oversize bit for just one kit then excuse it off with a "different materials" story is simply not right. It is inconsistent with their normal polcies and emerges as hogwash.
What they are doing is casting doubt on all their reccomendations as well as those of all other pen kit and tool suppliers. As it stands now, with their highly debatable reccomendation, when starting with a new kit, we must now buy a kit, or several, measure the tube then make a drill bit size choice before making pens. A beginner does not know this and gets stuck with oversize holes that need to be glopped up with glue and, perhaps, unsatisfactory results.
I belive that a test would be interesting. Choose a drill bit, almost any size used for pens, and drill into a variety of materials and woods then measure very carefully the ID. I suspect the differences would be so infinitesimal as to be near zero. In fact, CS, as the supplier, should do this before reccomending a bit size if they had such a concern.
BTW, I'm not happy with them about this issue but I still am a fan of the company in general and will continue to do business with them. Including buying kits of the style under discussion.
 

Firefyter-emt

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BTW.. unless you have mic'd your bits to see if THEY are what you think, it's hard to go off saying that THEY are wrong. Try it sometime, drill holes and measure, and measure your bits too. Mine are from Woodcraft and they are no where near the exact size listed.
 
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Randy_

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How is this for an idea??

Lots of folks have bitched about the issue of pen kits "apparently" being designed without regard for how well they "fit" with existing, commonly available fractional drill bits and how it seems that every new kit requires some new size bit. But I am not sure anyone has ever put the question "DIRECTLY" to a manufacturer?? Think that after the holiday rush has passed, I will formulate a question on the subject, send it directly to each of the 3 big pen manufacturers and ask them to reply, publicly, on IAP.

By the way, has anyone else ever noticed that Berea kits mostly require letter bits, CSUSA requires mostly fractional bits and PSI requires mostly metric bits. Not sure if it has any significance; but it interesting. I also noticed that PSI seems to require fewer different sizes of bits than the other guys relative to the number of different kits available. After the first of the year, think I will count the kits and count the bits and see who really does have the most commonality as far as bit sizes.....might be interesting.....might just be busy work??

One thing that everyone should remember is that a wide variety of bit sizes implies a wide variety of types of kits. If we limited our kits to tubes that required only three or four drill bit sizes, the selection of kits might be pretty limited...and boring??
 
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