Initial Tool Outfitting

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Hey guys,

I'm new to the site and about to build a new shop for myself. I am new to pens but not to wood and metal work. I have had bad experiences in the past with cheap tools and wanted to hear from the experts here first before making purchases so as not to make any mistake buying something cheap which won't last (haven't we all done that before...). Specifically, I will be adding these common items as to my new shop which I don't have:

A variable speed mini lathe

A band saw

A drill press

A set of turning tools specific to pens (gouge, skew, parting tool)

Any advice as to brands, sizes, speeds, etc. on each of the power tools and hand tools would be appreciated. Even info on what NOT to buy might be of help if you have had any bad experiences you would like to share. Also, any particular jigs you find useful would be great too. Thanks in advance.

Rob
 
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rjwolfe3

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Whatever brand you decide, go with the biggest you can afford. I went with a bench mounted drill press and regret it everyday. Look at Grizzly for your bandsaw and Jet or PSI for your variable speed lathe. Turning tools - I would get individual ones and not a set. I started with the pen makers set and hate using them. There are many opinions on this and I am sure you get a lot of responses.
 

baker4456

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I agree with Rob. If you buy a set of turning tools you might buy a cheep set first because there might be tools you like better and there are some you won't use. Then buy the good stuff in the tools you like to use.
 

Sabaharr

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Just as you are ai am relatively new to penturning but well versed in other aspects of woodworking. In outfitting my new passion I chose a JET 1220V (V is for varriable speed) for a lathe after considerable research. Its only been in action for a month but I do not forsee any regretts from choosing it. It has a longer base to allow for projects quite a bit bigger than pens, yet still has a small enough footprint to fit in a tight spot, unlike my old gigantic Craftsman lathe. I am using a few of the tools from my old set but bought some separate tools specifically for pen turning use also. As for a drill press it is frustrating to have to use a table top with such a short stroke that I have to reset to drill a longer type blank. I am on the lookout for a full size one now. I already had a Grizley 14" bandsaw and I would think that any one you could get that is reliable in cut and dependability would do. Stick to name brands if you can afford the extra and get them from somewhere you can return to if there is a problem. Good luck and welcome to the insanity.:wink:
 

babyblues

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As far as tools go, all you really need to get started turning pens is a roughing gouge and a skew. No need to buy a set. You can always add other tools later. I got a small set of 1/2" tools and wish now that I'd gone with bigger tools because there isn't much you can do other than turn pens with small tools. They're good tools, but limiting because of their size.

For drilling, if you have the money, get a scroll chuck and a jacobs chuck and drill on the lathe. Well worth the extra money if you have it to spend.
 

GouletPens

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Lathe: Oneway 1224 (if you can afford it, I can't...yet)
Drill press: for just pens, Rikon benchtop w/ 3.25" travel...its plenty
Chisels: 1/4 Spindle gouge, skew if you want to practice, Sorby Spindlemaster
Bandsaw: Grizzly or Rikon 14" deluxe (really depends what you're using it for)
Dust Collector: the biggest you can afford/fit! Steel City is good for bag DC, but Grizzly Cyclone is my dream DC setup.

What kind of budget are you working with? Whatever it is, double it and that'll get you through the first 6 months of penturning :tongue: j/k, but not really.
 
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Thanks guys, so travel on presses isn't really an issue for pens then? And if I only need a band saw for cutting blanks I suppose no great shakes there either? Or maybe I should get a mitre saw intead for future fun stuff?

It seems like dust collection is the big deal. I have never had to deal with that kind of dust that comes from fine turning. It must be pretty brutal. But I can't really do a big deal ductwork system at this point. I really need something simple mostly for the lathe obviously as the band saw and drill press dust will be negligible being that I won't be doing a ton of pens (at least for a while).

That said, what about sizes or manufacturers on a gouge and skew. Some say 1/4's, some 1/2's, etc..?
 
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Thanks guys, so travel on presses isn't really an issue for pens then? And if I only need a band saw for cutting blanks I suppose no great shakes there either? Or maybe I should get a mitre saw intead for future fun stuff?

It seems like dust collection is the big deal. I have never had to deal with that kind of dust that comes from fine turning. It must be pretty brutal. But I can't really do a big deal ductwork system at this point. I really need something simple mostly for the lathe obviously as the band saw and drill press dust will be negligible being that I won't be doing a ton of pens (at least for a while).

That said, what about sizes or manufacturers on a gouge and skew. Some say 1/4's, some 1/2's, etc..?

A drill press that has a 2 1/2 or 3" quill travel will do most pen drilling... you'll run into the odd kit that requires a longer drill, but you can work around that on a drill press with blocks, or by drilling on the lathe. (I have come to do most of my drilling on the lathe)

Ducting for the lathe is pretty important... especially if you get into using some of the exotic woods that have a high allergenic quality.. a lot of people have problems with cocobolo... I have more trouble with Paduak, but many of the woods we use are allergenic. I run a 2 horsepower DC that I got at Harbor Freight, but there are other sources... you need at least 1000 cfm air movement to be really effective (In my opinion.. others may differ).. mine is 1600 cfm. It's a dual bag system that I put outside in a separate closet....because unless you go to the really fine bags, some dust will still seep through.. If you look into PSI or Grizzly or some of the other wood work catalogs, you can get about 10 ft of 4" hoze for about $20-$30, plus the fittings you may need.. the duct work isn't really that expensive. Others here will tell you about using pvc pipe... My initial run off the DC, through the wall and under my workbench is aluminum vent piping, connected to the plastic DC pipe sold by PSI.

On the tools, I would recommend getting a good 1" skew, and same with the roughing gouge if you use one... When I started on pens, before I learned to use the skew, I use a 1/2" round nose scraper, 1" shallow roughing gouge and a 3/4" RG...pluse the 1/4" parting tool... they were part of the set my son gave me with my first lathe. There were other tools in the set that are now rusted and put away that I don't use.. I do use the 3/8 or 1/4 spindle gouge(not sure of the size), but not for pens.

After I watched Ed4copies doing a demo in Illinois a couple of years back, I rarely use anything to do pens except the skew.. start to finish.

Now after all of this, every pen turner has his/her own technique and tricks and may refute everything I've said.... you'll develop yours with practice, which is the most important element of all of this... practice practice and practice.:biggrin:
 
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kevinbrown22

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I don't have enough experience to remark other than get a band saw, I have a miter saw, and a table saw but for turning nothing beats a band saw.
 
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Thanks guys. Finally, any advice on brands/specifics on both the power and hand tools to look closest at and/pr stay away from? Any bad experiences or particularly good brand experiences I should know about?
 

Tn-Steve

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I'll throw my .04 cents in (I got some bailout funds, so I'm paying a bonus) on this. Now take into account I never turned anything except a pretty girl's head until just a couple of months ago, so it's a perspective from a newbie.

Lathe: I got a lot of good advice, some of it slightly conflicting, (as is normal), but one thing that kept coming up was make sure that it was MT2 taper. Makes it a lot easier to get accessories and when you DO get a larger lathe, you won't have to rebuy a bunch of stuff.

I got the PSI Turnmaster VS model. Got it from Amazon for less than what PSI had it listed for, and that included FREE Shipping. Saved me about 60 bucks over getting it direct from PSI.

The JET has an outstanding rep, as does the Steel City VS Lathe. (I wanted that one, but my local Woodcraft was out of stock and had no idea when they would get them back in).

Drill Press. I made the mistake of getting the very cheap Harbor Freight (HF) drill press, only has a 2 inch travel, and drilling anything required getting a block under the blank to finish the hole. It also caused problems with drilling acrylic blanks since I couldn't clear the bit and it got REALLY hot. The only good thing, it was only 35 bucks on sale, and it's fine for making holes in things for racks and stands.

I ended up getting an inexpensive 4 jaw chuck from WoodCraft and a set of the smaller jaws. I use it for all of my drilling now, every hole is dead center perfect, haven't had a blank blowup doing it that way. (Tempting fate now). The chuck was 80 bucks or so, and now the drill press is mainly used to hang my safety glasses and respirator mask on.

Turning Tools. I'm still getting a hang of the Skew, but getting better. I also got the mini tool set, (1/2 inch skew, gouge and parting tool). I do like the parting tool, but the rest don't get used too much. I do most of my turning with a standard skew, a set of small spindlemasters, a roughing gouge to get things down to size, and some sand paper for final shaping up.

I did get the HF set of of turning chisels (Their good quality ones, come in a wood box, velvet lining, think it's the "Windsor" label). They actually hold an edge nicely, and work well for me.

SAW I know at some point a band saw will be in my shop, right now I'm using a miter box and back saw. The advice on Band Saws seems always to be "Get the biggest you can manage" and it seems that most people who get one of the little bench top 9 inchers end up getting a larger one along the line.

Assorted Accessories I use my lathe as a pen press, just turned some chunks of oak I had lying around to an appx MT2 taper and just turn the crank to press things together. Works like a charm, have 100 percent control over the process.

I've got all my bushings, odds and ends in a small compartmented plastic box, (and yes, given a chance the bushings will get all mixed together unless you are good about putting them back in their plastic bags). I've got my blanks in a couple of plastic shoe boxes, yada yada.

MOST IMPORTANT EQUIPMENT Good safety glasses and a respirator. Most of us don't have / or afford a battery powered triton type, a simple paper one will do, as long as it has a NOISH95 certification. Somebody a couple of weeks ago put together a very good set along with the part numbers and the correct filters for what we encounter as nasty things to filter out.

Hope this helps,

Steve
 
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Thanks Steve. Sorry for my ignorance, but are you saying you are drilling with the lathe then? Can you describe all parts needed for this? Anyone else using this method?
 
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Also, regarding dust collection, I don't have a lot of space, so can I get any decent results with a smaller system such as 1HP units with 450CF air movement or so - such as the little Grizzly, etc.? Also, any particular brands you like better than others and why? Thanks again guys, you are being a big help. Getting closer to making some choices.
 

randyrls

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Rob; If you don't already have one, I would add a dust collector to the list. Position the hose directly behind the pen (part) you are turning and suck up all the shavings and sanding dust. You can use it to remove all the CA fumes as well. A good 1 micron bag will get all but the finest of particles.

CA and many of tropical hardwoods are high in allergens and the effect is cumulative. Repeated exposure will make you more sensitive on exposure the next time.

As to drilling on the lathe, check out this thread:
http://www.penturners.org/forum/showthread.php?t=44498
 
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GouletPens

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DC should be mandated by law when turning pens. It's not the wood chips that do the damage, it's the sanding. Consider that the smaller the wood particles get (chips, then shavings, then sanding dust), the higher your exposure to the wood grows, exponentially. When you are sanding your pen, it's practically like you're painting the wood dust all over your arms, and it is much easier to breathe in. Good DC is critical, but if you're like me and short on funds and space, a 1hp Steel City bag DC is all you need. It's on wheels and easy to move around from tool to tool, and if you have it on a short run (6 feet or so) from your lathe, it'll suck up all the dust and CA fumes while turning. Still, a good dust mask or respirator is helpful, as well as an ambient air cleaner if you have the dough. A Steel City DC like that is about $250, more or less and worth every penny.
 

Tn-Steve

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Thanks Steve. Sorry for my ignorance, but are you saying you are drilling with the lathe then? Can you describe all parts needed for this? Anyone else using this method?

Sure thing. I learned the technique here, it's really simple. You need a chuck to hold the blank at the headstock, and drill chuck to mount in the tail stock. I'm actually using my lathe as the turning tool, the drill and the pen press. (I did see some plans to make a small table saw that fit on the lathe, but that scared me a bit :biggrin:)

The Equipment
I got an 80 dollar chuck with a set of the smaller jaws from woodcraft, its not as nice by any means as the barracuda or Novas, but more than sufficent for my needs. Make sure you get one with 4 jaws, makes it a lot easier to grip a square blank, and be aware, the VERY low priced ones (generally) are "independent jaws" meaning that you have to get each one adjusted. It's a lot easier if you can tighten / loosen them as a unit.

The drill chuck was 15 bucks +/- at Harbor Freight. It mounts in the tail stock.

The Technique

If the blank is already nice and square (doesn't have be perfect, but should pass an eyeball test) just mount it in the chuck. I like to mount it using the corners, it seems like I get them to line up a bit better. If it doesn't want to mount up, I just turn the last inch or so round between centers. (Doesn't have to be 100 percent, just enough that you can get a good grip on it)

The drill bit get mounted in the tailstock, and I slide it up about a 1/4 inch or so from the blank and lock it down.

Start up the lathe, (I drill everything at low speeds (650 0r so on my lathe), find what works for you), and start cranking the feed handle on the tailstock. The bit will center on the blank, and start drilling. I usually run in between .5 and an inch. Unlock the tailstock, slide it back, make sure there aren't any shavings built up in the bit, slide it back into the blank, lock it down, crank it forward another bit, repeat as needed.

The benefit is that because the wood is spinning and the bit is stationary, (just the opposite of how you usually drill a hole), you get very little wandering off of center. I can also control just how fast I exit the blank. (Piece of tape on the bit to let me know when I'm hitting the end) I haven't had any problems with breakouts. If I'm doing a bunch of blanks, (or acrylic ones), I have wad of wet paper towels that I drape over the bit when between blanks to cool it off.

Doesn't take much time at all, I have had very few problems with blanks ending up off center, works like a charm for me.

I also have started using the same technique for squaring up the ends of the blanks, just have to be very careful to not over advance the end mill too far.

Amazon has the PSI Portable dust collector (1 micron bag) for 150 bucks, and free shipping (again, better than direct from PSI) http://www.amazon.com/PSI-DC660P-Ho...ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1237476830&sr=1-4

Hope this helps,

Steve
 
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One other thing I came across that I wonder about. Since actual cutting tools are few and I don't have a grinder or sharpening jigs at the moment, I wonder if I can get away with just buying a carbide skew and spindle gouge at the moment. I have a dear friend who can do sharpening and honing for me the right way when I need it but I'm thinking I can get a pretty decent interval out of carbide tools with factory sharpening, no? Please advise.
 

fyrcaptn

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?

I've turned many pens using only a large skew. I may or may not turn to round with a gouge. Raffan's video I have was invaluable on skew useage.
When I started pens I bought a set of small turning tools - and was given another that Christmas. Hard to believe out of 2 sets I never use any of them. Finally tools that never need sharpening!!!
My full size small gouge and skew do more and feel good when using them.
 

GouletPens

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If you are able to master a skew, then there's not much else you need for pen turning. Ed Davidson is another big skew guy. He modified his though, ground it down and uses more like a scraper. Look up some of his videos.
 

ldb2000

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I'm not sure which carbide tools you are asking about . I use the 3 pc set from PSI and love them . you can get them on Amazon sometimes for about $30 for the set . They come pre-sharpened and hold an edge for quite a while , depending on what you are turning . I turn allot of Tru-Stone and Brass and Aluminum with mine and only have to sharpen mine about once per week and unless I do something dumb thats only a quick hone . They do not sharpen as sharp as a good M2 steel but the edge lasts much longer between touch ups .
These are penmakers tools so they are not very big , but I seem to have better control with them .
I also use a 1/2" M2 steel skew on tearout prone woods like spalted woods and burls . This skew is Scary sharp , I gave myself a nice gash the other day when I accidentally brushed it against my arm .
 
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I'll be turning mostly acrylic and tru-stone and making maybe 10 pens per month. How often would a carbide skew need sharpening in your opnion then?
 

JimB

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If you are only going to do pens you do not need a bandsaw. A miter saw will do. I have both and only use the bandsaw to cut bowl blanks. I cut all pen blanks on the miter saw. Of course, your biggest problem is that eventually you will want to try doing other (bigger) things and your wood will be too big for the miter saw. This is how I ended up buying a bandsaw.

As for sharpening, no matter how good your tools are you are going to need to sharpen them. You need to buy something to do that. After a year I still haven't bough an expensive system. I am still using my $20 grinder from Big Lots and a home made jig (easy to make) for my roughing gouge and I free hand my skew and bowl gouge along with most of my other tools. I use a small diamond hone (file style) when I need to hone. I should point out that I had some very experienced turners show me how to sharpen free hand and even they say it is faster with a jig and you will get a little better and consistent edge. However, for a newbie who doesn't have a lot of $$$ to spend, learning how to freehand is a good thing. Plus, not matter where you are, you will be able to sharpen your tools.

Eventually I'll probably buy a more expensive sharpening system but for now I'm doing just fine.
 

VisExp

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I've just put a wall mounted dust collector behind my lathe. I got it from Rockler. You can see pictures and a brief description of what I did here.

I've been pleased with it. A bit louder than I was hoping but it is doing a good job of catching the dust and the expandable hose and floor sweep extension is making cleaning up much easier.
 
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