I'm confused

[Texatdurango]

I've been turning pens for a few years now and seem to have a grasp on how things need to be done but am starting to hear a lot of tips that frankly don't make any sense to me and yet everyone seems to be offereing the same advice over and over so either I am just dense and don't get it or there have been some new breakthroughs in the pen turning world that I am not aware of.

Here are a couple examples of things I have read in some recent threads that puzzle me.

1. "Be sure to sand your brass tubes before gluing". WHY? To me this is just a wasted step and doesn't add any benefit. I did this when I started out because everyone else said to do it but after a while realized that it added nothing so I quit doing it and to this day I don't sand tubes and my pens go together just fine and customers aren't calling and complaining so I figure things are OK. So, can anyone share some real world experiences where you can offer some benefit from sanding tubes rather than just saying "I recommend sanding tubes"

2. "Sand your square blanks round before putting them on the lathe". This one has me puzzled as well. One of the basic features of a lathe is that it turns square things round, and does it well. Why on earth this "shortcut" got started is beyond me and I don't get it. I hear all sorts of advice using things from stationary belt sanders to special jigs to hold hand held belt sanders to jigs which allow you to mount a blank in a drill press for sanding.

What ever happened to mounting a blank between centers then turning it round? It's called "spindle turning" and even has tools designed and named for the task. Have we become a community of pen makers who because of our rush to start cranking pens out, have never bothered to learn basic lathe turning skills so we come up with all these "shortcuts"?

I can't help but wonder if we aren't seeing the advent of the blind leading the blind and if it continues, down the road we'll be advising new pen makers to forego the lathe purchase all together and just get a good drill press, a belt sander and of course.... the right brand of CA!

Just some things that crossed my mind this morning and I just had to mention them! :biggrin:

 

[brownsfn2]

I am new. I only sand pen tubes when I paint them so the paint sticks better. I don't have a belt sander so I don't sand the corners. I can see how it might speed things up though. I had a piece of tru-stone the other day that took forever to get round.

 

[wiset1]

I know I've been sanding my tubes since I started, just because I watched the Barry Gross video and read his book. Having never turned a single pen I took this as the way it should be done with the understanding that the sanded tube helped the CA or epoxy grip the tube and prevent it from shifting or spinning. Then again, I sand my accent sheets for segmenting to help the CA grip.

Not sure about the sanding a square blank round...I think I would ONLY do this with one of those segmented pens that have like 100 segments on it just to avoid any possible tool grabs early on. I use my lathe to turn square objects round, ha ha ha. I think it helps people feel better about not blowing a blank up early on...I've never had this problem, but if it makes them feel more confident in the ability to finish the barrel then so be it I guess.

 

[hunter-27]

I've been turning pens for a few years now and seem to have a grasp on how things need to be done but am starting to hear a lot of tips that frankly don't make any sense to me and yet everyone seems to be offereing the same advice over and over so either I am just dense and don't get it or there have been some new breakthroughs in the pen turning world that I am not aware of.

Here are a couple examples of things I have read in some recent threads that puzzle me.

1. "Be sure to sand your brass tubes before gluing". WHY? To me this is just a wasted step and doesn't add any benefit. I did this when I started out because everyone else said to do it but after a while realized that it added nothing so I quit doing it and to this day I don't sand tubes and my pens go together just fine and customers aren't calling and complaining so I figure things are OK. So, can anyone share some real world experiences where you can offer some benefit from sanding tubes rather than just saying "I recommend sanding tubes"

The only reason I still do this is because in nearly every other painting/gluing I have ever been tought, it was told to me the scratch marks allow for more surface area for the paint/glue to "grab". Is it needed? Maybe, maybe not, but I will still probably do so out of habit.

2. "Sand your square blanks round before putting them on the lathe". This one has me puzzled as well. One of the basic features of a lathe is that it turns square things round, and does it well. Why on earth this "shortcut" got started is beyond me and I don't get it. I hear all sorts of advice using things from stationary belt sanders to special jigs to hold hand held belt sanders to jigs which allow you to mount a blank in a drill press for sanding.

What ever happened to mounting a blank between centers then turning it round? It's called "spindle turning" and even has tools designed and named for the task. Have we become a community of pen makers who because of our rush to start cranking pens out, have never bothered to learn basic lathe turning skills so we come up with all these "shortcuts"?
Here I agree with you completely. With the possible exception of some segmented, laminated, or inlay blank, I can think of no real reason you should not be able to get it round with any one of many possible tools already in your arsenal.

I can't help but wonder if we aren't seeing the advent of the blind leading the blind and if it continues, down the road we'll be advising new pen makers to forego the lathe purchase all together and just get a good drill press, a belt sander and of course.... the right brand of CA!

Just some things that crossed my mind this morning and I just had to mention them! :biggrin:

Good post.

 

[JimB]

As for sanding the tubes, I do this for the same reason you did. I was told by someone at the very start to do this as it would help the glue stick top the tube. I have gotten a few tubes that seemed to have some type of coating on them (oil or something) so removing that seemed like a good idea. I've wondered if the sanding is really needed.

I've never understood why people spend time knocking off the corners on a blank using a sander or jig on a saw. As you stated, that is the whole purpose of spindle turning. I understand doing it with bowl blanks because you are turning a lot of air when knocking off corners and it can be time consuming and a little nerve racking but for pen blanks it only takes a few passes of a tool.

 

[BRobbins629]

George - I can give good reasons for both of these.

Its not often that I use tubes, but when I do, its usually when I going to do some post processing after I've turned the blank round. I could something like cutting grooves or doing a deep engraving. In each case I might get close to the tube. It's well known in adhesive science that clean surfaces will create a better bond than dirty ones and I think sanding does this. Call it insurance, but I have had tubes spin on me and come apart occasionally. You are right in that is is not a necessity but why not spend a few more seconds in the early stages to minimize chances of a potential disaster of a piece with a lot of time.

As for rounding blanks before turning, this is an often recommended practice for many wood turning projects for beginners. The most difficult cuts and those most prone to taking chunks out of blanks are those where there are air gaps when the piece is turning. Again not a necessity but good advice for a beginner when all they want to do is finish a pen. Same reason why some use a skew and others use 80 grit sandpaper on expensive blanks. I have reverted to 80 grit many times and usually when I do, the blank doesn't blow up and those who see the pen never know.

 

[NewLondon88]

It's the Pot Roast theory


A newly-wed husband noticed that every time his wife cooked a pot roast she would first cut an inch off either end before putting it in the oven. When he asked why, she said "Because that's how you are supposed to cook pot roast." Unsatisfied with her answer he pushed until she admitted that she learned it from her mother.
Waiting until a visit with his wife's mother, the husband asked "Your daughter tells me you taught her to cook pot roast by first cutting an inch off each end?" to which the mother replied "Well of course, that's how pot roast is cooked." But the husband was not to be deterred, and after pressing his mother-in-law on the subject she finally admitted that she'd learned if from *her* mother.
This meant the husband had to ask the wife's grandmother. When he finally got his chance he asked: "Your granddaughter's mother told me you taught her to cut an inch off each end of a pot roast before cooking. She swore it was a requirement, but I'm dying to know why? Is there any sane reason to throw away two inches of perfectly good meat in order to cook a pot roast?!?"
Laughing, the grandmother said " so it would fit in the pan!"

 

[maxwell_smart007]

Mostly, the tips you reference are for acrylic blanks

When I first started, I had a lot of CA related acrylic explosions...some of this was due to blunt tools, but I also had areas where the glue didn't adhere to the tube. Sanding eliminated that.

I tend to round the corners of acrylics as well, as I've had catches happen on acrylic blanks when I first began....again, likely due to duller than razor-sharp tools...

Sanding, and sharpening my tools, has limited those failures now. However, since the sanding takes about three seconds per tube, it's easy insurance.

 

[BKelley]

I sratch the surface of the tube with the edge of a file and clean with denatured alcohol. In theory this should give the adhesive a better purchase. In practice, maybe I'm just cutting the ends off the roast.

Ben

 

[KenV]

George -- I remember some cast snakeskin blanks with the instructions recommending use of sanding to knock off the corners on the ends. I did chip out a few of those blanks when ignoring that phase. In recent years, the use of nano-carbide cup shaped tools (Hunter and Eliminator) has allowed me to carefully get the ends shaped without any chips or breaks -- and the castings seem less brittle.

The brass tube roughening is to provide a sense of mechanical adhesion. I have also noted that the coated tubes (plated and white coated) that are slick as snot, have not been failing and they are much more smooth than a regular brass tube. Roughness is probably not nearly as valuable as assuring full adhesive coverage of the blank and tube.

On the other hand -- roughing brass tubes is not likely to cause a problem, and may help under some circumstances. Production turners do things that non-production turners do not attempt -- in the interest of faster throughput.

 

[JohnGreco]

I don't typically sand the edges down on a blank before turning it, but I recently used an M3 lava blank and WOW am I glad I did on that. Talk about a big dulling effect on the tools! But it sanded easily, so for that I would definitely sand it down again first.

 

[Displaced Canadian]

I don't really understand the sand the blank round thing, my lathe does it faster. I just start gentle and start from one side and don't take large cuts until the blank is round. Sometimes I will take my knife and cut the ends a little round for insurance and if the wood cuts easily it will save a few seconds. As for sanding tubes, I find it helps the paint stick to the tube and it makes the tube slide in easier when the tube and inside of the blank is painted. I have forgotten to sand some tubes and haven't had any issues. To me it is cheap insurance.

 

[PTsideshow]

On the sanding either for painting, patinas as in metal art work, or adhesive application. When you follow the directions for any application of paint, adhesive the first step is always a clean, oil free, dry surfaces. On some it says that a toothed or rough surface. So you will get a better grip with some adhesives. CA is designed for bonding smooth surfaces, for those that remember when super glue was first sold with the hard hat commercial. They now are showing one with, A bridge and bunggy cord along with two highly polished brass metal chunks.

The cleaning of the brass tubs are to remove the manufacturing oils and greases used in the seamless extruding process. Now you can use a chemical cleaner or a more physical method of cleaning or sanding.

The wiping them off with acetone or your favorite solvent then drying them it becomes just a matter of not touching the tubes with fingers. Since there is always some slight oils on your hands and fingers.

Having down sign painting and metal work for 40 years, I can tell you fromexperience that when ever I tried cutting a little time of a job by not cleaning and do the proper surface prep more times than not I had to do a redo!

But like very thing else in life if it works for you and you are happy with the results go with it.

Here is a case in point, yesterday I was gluing up some leather disks on a 10 " brass tube I really didn't thing about it and just grab a brass tube, I didn't sand the tube or clean it. This morning went to check on it. I found that the disks were stuck together, but that the disks didn't adhere to the tube. I was able to remove the leather stick of disks.

I will be able to attach the section to the barrel tubes for which ever pens i use them on.

I can't really address the corner issues with the turning tools as I have only made handles for files and other tools the last 15 years, and used round stock that I had on hand.
:clown:

 

[watch_art]

krazy glue bungee jump.

http://www.krazyglue.com/video2.html

 

[Chasper]

Over and over I see examples of turning advice which is of questionable value and occasionally just plain wrong. In some cases the advice is given by relatively new pen makers who are recycling what they read the day before, without having tested the value of the advice they are dispensing.

My advice, take all advice (including mine) with multiple grains of salt, and don't share your knowledge until you have tested and confirmed it to be useful.

 

[GoatRider]

Ironically enough, I've read that CA actually holds better if it has a smooth, tightly fitting surface. Roughening the surface actually disrupts the crystal structure. However, it does need to be clean- so if it looks dirty or oxidized, hit it with 400 grit or something. All other glues hold better on a rough surface.

 

[bitshird]

I do sand the tubes unless they are painted, brass oxidizes quickly, adhesives don't like to stick to oxidized surfaces, There should be plenty of empirical data from the adhesive manufacturers web sites, regarding surface preparation.

 

[OLDMAN5050]

Simple, just do what works for you.............

 

[ragz]

While it may not be practical for every application sanding does provide mechanical adhesion for paint, finishes and adhesives.

As for knocking corners off a blank I really don't see the need unless you are working on something particuarily brittle like a heavily segmented or some suspect acryllic blanks.

 

[Timbo]

I don't remember seeing a post that suggested sanding your blanks round...as opposed to knocking off the corners. I do knock off the corners as a precaution if I'm turning a segmented, or brittle acrylic blank. Contrary to what some folks suggest, I find its much faster (and safer) to do this on my disk sander than taking light cuts on the lathe until the corners are reduced.

I have mixed feelings about the sanding of tubes although if I was a betting man I would say you're right. If there is any benefit, it would be that it cleans the tube. Before I wised up and started using play-dough to plug the ends of my tubes, I often found myself cleaning CA from the inside of the tube. I would use a dental pick to work the cured CA loose. On some tubes it was a bear to clean out, on others it easily popped out in one of two pieces, leaving the wall of the tube pristine. In the latter case, was there something on the tube preventing the CA from sticking that well? Even so, it may have still been glued in the blank good enough not to present a problem.

 

[DurocShark]

Sanding tubes: Oxidized brass makes a poor adhesive surface. Plus, adding "tooth" to the surface provides more surface area to bond to. Both help, but neither may be necessary in your case. Me, I'll keep doing it.

Sanding the corners: I've never done this, though I've considered it for alabaster and similar things. Might shave a minute or two off turning it round. But I'm lazy and turning on the lathe is what I enjoy, not holding chunks of stone on a belt sander.

 

[Texatdurango]

Well there seems to be a consensus that a clean tube is a requirement for good adhesion over a tube that has traces of oils or lubricants left over from the manufacturing process and I agree BUT I as I suspected, several have sanding and cleaning mixed up and sand because they think they are cleaning the tube.

I used to use acetone to clean the tubes but found that they felt more slippery after cleaning than before so I wondered if I was actually introducing the slippery coating by allowing the acetone to evaporate! Then I switched to alcohol but that's just a personal preferrence.

Above, KenV mentioned the white/black coated or plated tubes as being very slick yet the glue adhered very well and thinking back a few years I believe the time I quit sanding was when I bought some nickel plated tubes to use on a very translucent blank. I sanded as usual and wound up with a tube that was nickel with brass swirls so decided to not sand any more and all went well.

Another thing I have noticed, have you ever accidentally gotten any epoxy or CA down inside a tube (where you didn't sand)? It's the dickens to scrape out isn't it....... almost like it's adhering very, very well!

I like the post about the pot roast theory the best!

 

[PTsideshow]

I used to use acetone to clean the tubes but found that they felt more slippery after cleaning than before so I wondered if I was actually introducing the slippery coating by allowing the acetone to evaporate! Then I switched to alcohol but that's just a personal preferrence.

Yes you are correct acetone does have an oily/slippy component to it. The cheaper versions seem to be more oily if you will.

Denatured alcohol is the best of the alcohols, rubbing alcohol is formulated from denatured alcohol. Isopropyl alcohol can be 68–99% by volume, the remainder is water and other ingredients color additives, suitable stabilizers, and perfume oils.

So if you are using the alcohols from the health and beauty isles check for the highest alcohol content and color, and scent free.
:clown:

 

[Texatdurango]

I used to use acetone to clean the tubes but found that they felt more slippery after cleaning than before so I wondered if I was actually introducing the slippery coating by allowing the acetone to evaporate! Then I switched to alcohol but that's just a personal preferrence.

Yes you are correct acetone does have an oily/slippy component to it. The cheaper versions seem to be more oily if you will.

Denatured alcohol is the best of the alcohols, rubbing alcohol is formulated from denatured alcohol. Isopropyl alcohol can be 68–99% by volume, the remainder is water and other ingredients color additives, suitable stabilizers, and perfume oils.

So if you are using the alcohols from the health and beauty isles check for the highest alcohol content and color, and scent free.
:clown:

I buy denatured alcohol by the gallon at the local hardware store.

 

[randyrls]

Another thing I have noticed, have you ever accidentally gotten any epoxy or CA down inside a tube (where you didn't sand)? It's the dickens to scrape out isn't it....... almost like it's adhering very, very well!

Tex; Actually I have found that CA doesn't adhere very well to the inside of the tube. A quick pass with a brass cleaning brush gets any CA out easily.

 

[PTsideshow]

I posted this as part of another answer in another thread. I thing it sums up the answer to your question. When they started out with the first people turn in pens and using assorted pen/pencil parts BK (before kit). the originators tend to do over kill on things so they don't have complaints with the item in the books and articles if they don't work. Again this was also pre BI (before Internet/forums), so feedback and availability to a wide skill and knowledge set was low and limited.

As adhesives, epoxies bond in three ways: a) Mechanically, because the bonding surfaces are roughened; b) By proximity, because the cured resins are physically so close to the bonding surfaces that they are hard to separate; c) Ionically, because the epoxy resins form ionic bonds at an atomic level with the bonding surfaces. This last is substantially the strongest of the three. By contrast, polyester resins can only bond using the first two of these

That pretty much sums it up for me, the idea I think was that by the roughing of the surface. And the other two you would achieve the best/strongest possible bond/attachment between the materials being bonded.
:clown:

 

[MartinPens]

Human Nature

It's the Pot Roast theory


A newly-wed husband noticed that every time his wife cooked a pot roast she would first cut an inch off either end before putting it in the oven. When he asked why, she said "Because that's how you are supposed to cook pot roast." Unsatisfied with her answer he pushed until she admitted that she learned it from her mother.
Waiting until a visit with his wife's mother, the husband asked "Your daughter tells me you taught her to cook pot roast by first cutting an inch off each end?" to which the mother replied "Well of course, that's how pot roast is cooked." But the husband was not to be deterred, and after pressing his mother-in-law on the subject she finally admitted that she'd learned if from *her* mother.
This meant the husband had to ask the wife's grandmother.
When he finally got his chance he asked: "Your granddaughter's mother told me you taught her to cut an inch off each end of a pot roast before cooking.
She swore it was a requirement, but I'm dying to know why? Is there any
sane reason to throw away two inches of perfectly good meat in order to cook
a pot roast?!?"

Laughing, the grandmother said " so it would fit in the pan!"

I like this story. We do what we are taught, what we observe.
I have found, in my own learning that there is at least four or five ways to do just about anything.
I was self taught, watching videos, reading books, watching others works at club demos. Then I did several weekend workshops with various turning professionals on turning bowls, platters, hollow forms etc.. The first thing they said was necessary for self taught turners was to "unlearn." then they teach their method.
I found out that each one of them found techniques of the other turners to "not make sense" from their perspective. I've seen technical drawings and scientific explanations.
In the club meeting, we teased one guy because he only ever used a scraper. But his pieces were wonderful. What makes sense to one person is nonsense to another.
Sand the tubes, don't sand the tubes. 20 coats of thin CA, or just three coats of medium. Wet sand, dry sand. Drill on the drill press, drill on the lathe. Reverse the direction for sanding, don't reverse it. One professional swears on dousing the wood and lighting it on fire very briefly to aid in raising the grain in the sanding process.. (not for pens!)
When I see a newcomer post a question on "how do I do this" "what stuff should I buy," I always remember the variety of responses I got from all over the spectrum. It was sometimes confusing but I tried different things and found one I preferred.
I know one professional, at least, who hates the forums because of all of the "misinformation" that is posted.
I think it's great to post and say "this is the way I do it." I think it's fairly futile to say "this is the right way it should be done."
I find what works for me and try out different things when I read about them.
Thanks for the post. Very thought provoking.

Regards

 

[its_virgil]

Sorry your professional acquaintance hates the forums. They are a great place to learn, to be inspired, to share or to just talk about pens and pen making. I suppose the professionals don't need the first two and rarely do the third and don't have time for the fourth. Although, we have several members whom I consider to be professionals who do all four. But, as noted, there is quite a lot of "misinformation" shared on the various pen forums as well as over the entire internet.
Do a good turn daily!
Don

 

[flyitfast]

I guess it comes down to - Ya never know unless you try.
As for me, I love trying something I don't know, just in case it works!! Something about thinking outside the box..................
gordon

 

[Grampy122]

Sanding

krazy glue bungee jump.

http://www.krazyglue.com/video2.html

If you watch video about the middle of it (right after the tubes of glue on the table) it looks like the guy is sanding the face of the fixture that they glue together.

If you have ever sweated copper pipes you know if you do not clean them with emory cloth you will have a poor joint.

 

[Chasper]

I like this story. We do what we are taught, what we observe.
I have found, in my own learning that there is at least four or five ways to do just about anything.
I was self taught, watching videos, reading books, watching others works at club demos. Then I did several weekend workshops with various turning professionals on turning bowls, platters, hollow forms etc.. The first thing they said was necessary for self taught turners was to "unlearn." then they teach their method.
I found out that each one of them found techniques of the other turners to "not make sense" from their perspective. I've seen technical drawings and scientific explanations.
In the club meeting, we teased one guy because he only ever used a scraper. But his pieces were wonderful. What makes sense to one person is nonsense to another.
Sand the tubes, don't sand the tubes. 20 coats of thin CA, or just three coats of medium. Wet sand, dry sand. Drill on the drill press, drill on the lathe. Reverse the direction for sanding, don't reverse it. One professional swears on dousing the wood and lighting it on fire very briefly to aid in raising the grain in the sanding process.. (not for pens!)
When I see a newcomer post a question on "how do I do this" "what stuff should I buy," I always remember the variety of responses I got from all over the spectrum. It was sometimes confusing but I tried different things and found one I preferred.
I know one professional, at least, who hates the forums because of all of the "misinformation" that is posted.
I think it's great to post and say "this is the way I do it." I think it's fairly futile to say "this is the right way it should be done."
I find what works for me and try out different things when I read about them.
Thanks for the post. Very thought provoking.

Regards

Brovo, very well said

 

[Texatdurango]

....... I know one professional, at least, who hates the forums because of all of the "misinformation" that is posted.

............I think it's great to post and say "this is the way I do it." I think it's fairly futile to say "this is the right way it should be done."
I find what works for me and try out different things when I read about them.
Thanks for the post. Very thought provoking.

Regards

Well, the idea of the thread was to be thought provoking so mission accomplished right! :wink:

I wonder if it would make much difference in the perception of validity or value of the advice given if one were to start out with a bit of background such as... "I've only made two pens so far but the xyz tool is the best tool you can buy and I highly recommend it" as apposed to something like "I've made a few hundred pens using this particular tool and I find that it tends to catch most of the time if you ......."

I'm not saying that pure numbers indicate that the author knows what he or she is talking about but it would at least let the reader have a bit more insight as to who is giving the advice.

Most veteran members know who is who but newcomers don't (and they are the ones who need the most accurate answers of all), this might just even the playing field for them. Just a thought!

 

[dgerwin11]

I always check member join date to judge how much stock to give advice.

 

[SDB777]

So if the wife is casting round blanks do I still need to sand those corners:biggrin:





Scott (I just try to do the same everytime, doesn't make it right) B

 

[NewLondon88]

If you have ever sweated copper pipes you know if you do not clean them with emory cloth you will have a poor joint.

The same holds true if you do all your plumbing using CA :tongue:

 

[EBorraga]

What I find interesting is what people consider misinformation. What if someone suggests how they do things, that works for them. Then you try and have no success. You feel like they don't have a clue what they're talking about, even though it's worked for them hundred's of times. Was it bad information or not?

 

[Smitty37]

I agree...

Another thing I have noticed, have you ever accidentally gotten any epoxy or CA down inside a tube (where you didn't sand)? It's the dickens to scrape out isn't it....... almost like it's adhering very, very well!

Tex; Actually I have found that CA doesn't adhere very well to the inside of the tube. A quick pass with a brass cleaning brush gets any CA out easily.

CA has good pull adhesion but not so great lateral. Sanding the tube might help a bit because of the v filling and adding some added lateral adhesion.

 

[Smitty37]

....... I know one professional, at least, who hates the forums because of all of the "misinformation" that is posted.

............I think it's great to post and say "this is the way I do it." I think it's fairly futile to say "this is the right way it should be done."
I find what works for me and try out different things when I read about them.
Thanks for the post. Very thought provoking.

Regards

Well, the idea of the thread was to be thought provoking so mission accomplished right! :wink:

I wonder if it would make much difference in the perception of validity or value of the advice given if one were to start out with a bit of background such as... "I've only made two pens so far but the xyz tool is the best tool you can buy and I highly recommend it" as apposed to something like "I've made a few hundred pens using this particular tool and I find that it tends to catch most of the time if you ......."

I'm not saying that pure numbers indicate that the author knows what he or she is talking about but it would at least let the reader have a bit more insight as to who is giving the advice.

Most veteran members know who is who but newcomers don't (and they are the ones who need the most accurate answers of all), this might just even the playing field for them. Just a thought!

How about the guy who has turned only two pens but 20,000 spindles....won't know a lot about pens but might know a lot about tools and/or turning. We just need to take all advice with a grain of salt. If it doesn't make sense to us, we need to get another opinion.

 

[PTsideshow]

Least we forget what the definition of what forum means:
a : the marketplace or public place of an ancient Roman city forming the center of judicial and public business b : a public meeting place for open discussion c : a medium (as a newspaper or online service) of open discussion or expression of idea.
from Merriam-Webster's Collegiate Dictionary on line

In our context it is b and c

That what is great about this forum, compared to a couple of other wood turning forums I WAS a member of! I got tired real fast of the "Legends In Their Own Minds" the ones that have a large number of posts and been a member for a long time of a forum. But can only verbally assault the new members, when they make a mistake in the questions they ask.
And when you look at their postings(LITOM) they have been for a long time just verbal nastiness, reminds me of high school and all the crap, the cliques did to each other.
The mod's here won't sit idly by and let other members be abused. From what I have seen. That is why I have joined this forum.
As been said in another post, Just because the member hasn't turned pens but shop work is shop work, And from some of the questions posted there are members here that do amazing pen work but couldn't find the door in a welding or other shop!

Everybody brings a assorted and different skill set and knowledgeable set level to the party. I started out with a Dremel table top lathe. I still have it and it works well for what it is. It turned out a lot of dollhouse items, and tool handles since it was new in the mid 70's. After the wife's and daughters doll houses, I only turned handles for 40 years. I am getting back in to turning and have had an interest in pen turning. I know I will probably never reach the level some on here, have but I can learn as much as possible from them. I bought an import lathe to see if I am really into turning or it will be another thing I learn and move on.

I will admit that I seem to be more interested in the equipment, technique, and processes than the product. I like most am mesmerized by all the bright shiny blanks, findings and the exotic woods. Along with how they are done!

I have been a shop rat for over 50 plus years, machine,welding, sheet metal, wood, electrical, plumbing/pipefitting sign painting and prop and magic building along with manufacturing parrot play toys. Along with the day job as a facilities manager/stationary engineer.

My point isn't bragging, but no one on here knows what I have done or can do. As some on here can attest there is the "right way, the wrong way and the navy way!"

Please don't start all that crap that is on a lot of other forums. If you like the drama then you can find all you want on other forums.

Of courseI have only joined this forum in the last 2 weeks and spent some time as a guest before joining.

Please don't let this forum change!
:clown:

 

[soligen]

I always check member join date to judge how much stock to give advice.

I also sometimes look at their photo album (if they have one) to see what kind of work a person is doing