I think I'm finished with using CA to glue tubes

[Scooley01]

I originally was using CA to glue my tubes, and it was working great...as long as the hole I drill is steady and the bit/jig didn't wiggle at all. If it wiggled at all during drilling (ie the hole is slightly bigger than the bit is supposed to drill) then when I go to mill the ends with the barrel trimmer, the tube has a tendency to stick to come out of the blank with the trimmer. It's only happened a handful of times, and I just clean the tube off and use two-part epoxy for the second gluing and I haven't had issues beyond that.

Well today it happened again...and this time, the tube glued itself to the barrel trimmer. I had to soak the trimmer/brass tube in acetone and peel off (by tearing!) the brass piece by piece...and unfortunately I don't have any extra tubes for that kit, so now the whole order is delayed because I'm too impatient to use epoxy.

*sigh* I just need to get over the 2-3 hours of waiting involved with epoxy and just glue everything a day ahead of time or something.


Another revelation today: The tiny table saw I bought from Harbor Freight that was really a pain in the butt to use can't even hold a candle to how awesome a back saw and a miter box is. Seriously, it's hardly any extra effort to saw it by hand, and the results are infinitely better!

 

[Dave Turner]

*sigh* I just need to get over the 2-3 hours of waiting involved with epoxy and just glue everything a day ahead of time or something.

We're supposed to wait 2-3 hours? I've been using the 5 minute epoxy and have only been waiting 15 to 30 minutes. I've never had a problem so far.

 

[Scooley01]

I have 15 minute epoxy and I tried it after 30-40 minutes twice and it was gummy and the tubes still came out of the blank...so now I don't take chances with it and I set a 2 hour timer.

 

[Andrew Arndts]

My grandparents had an insurance business out of their front room. In that room there was a sign.
"The Hurrier you go, The Behinder you get.
:biggrin:

 

[Polarys425]

I originally was using CA to glue my tubes, and it was working great...as long as the hole I drill is steady and the bit/jig didn't wiggle at all. If it wiggled at all during drilling (ie the hole is slightly bigger than the bit is supposed to drill) then when I go to mill the ends with the barrel trimmer, the tube has a tendency to stick to come out of the blank with the trimmer. It's only happened a handful of times, and I just clean the tube off and use two-part epoxy for the second gluing and I haven't had issues beyond that.

Well today it happened again...and this time, the tube glued itself to the barrel trimmer. I had to soak the trimmer/brass tube in acetone and peel off (by tearing!) the brass piece by piece...and unfortunately I don't have any extra tubes for that kit, so now the whole order is delayed because I'm too impatient to use epoxy.

*sigh* I just need to get over the 2-3 hours of waiting involved with epoxy and just glue everything a day ahead of time or something.


Another revelation today: The tiny table saw I bought from Harbor Freight that was really a pain in the butt to use can't even hold a candle to how awesome a back saw and a miter box is. Seriously, it's hardly any extra effort to saw it by hand, and the results are infinitely better!

Your not letting your CA dry if your brass tube ended up glued to the barrel trimmer, and it sounds as though you had uncured CA inside the tube.

Are you gluing in cold temps? CA doesnt need more than a couple min, and 15 min epoxy shouldnt take more than 30 min, tops. Cold temps will affect this. You should also make sure the brass tube is clean before you trim.

 

[Scooley01]

Well the CA says it takes 15 or 30 seconds, I forget which, and I wait 2 minutes. It's definitely uncured on occasion after the two minute wait, as that's how the tube can come back out of the blank...but why it's uncured after two minutes I'm not clear on.

I live in central Texas...it's not warm right now, but it's not frigid either. It's been between 40 and 65 over the past few afternoons I've worked.

 

[Chasper]

It is possible to get some CA inside the tube when you push it in unless you put a plug in the tube, and I never use a plug. If you spray accelerator into the tube the CA will dry on the surface, but it may still be liquid under the surface the next day. If it is dry all the way through, the tip of the pen mill will usually break it loose. You should square the end from which you pushed in the tube first, then square the end with the accumulated glue. If there is still liquid glue under the hard surface, the tip of the pen mill will break it loose, the glue will adhere to the pen mill shaft and the tube will spin around inside the drilled hole. When you raise the drill press, the tube will come out with the pen mill shaft. I use a cutting wheel on a Dremel to cut them off. One solution is to scrape inside the tube with a thin knife to make sure that there is no liquid glue, spray it with accelerator if it isn't dry.

 

[ed4copies]

After you make pens for a while, you may decide it is easier to wait a day after you glue.

At least that's what I decided---no problems, ever since.

 

[EBorraga]

I use 5 minute epoxy. I epoxy a bunch at one time. Then wait until the next day to finish the pen.

 

[Monty]

Slow down....whats the rush
I always let my tubes dry AT LEAST several hours, but most of the time overnight. I always use thick CA because it it gives me about one minute working time to insert the tube. From past experience, if I try to hurry and make a pen, I'll mess up somewhere along the line and ruin the pen.
I think that the longer you wait after inserting the tubes, better the bond. Since I started waiting overnight, I've had fewer failures, not eliminated them altogether, but a lot fewer. Also, if you paint the tubes and blanks when you use an acrylic blank, you will definitely need to let the paint dry overnight or the bond will fail.
I see you are in College Station, so your weather is the same as mine here in Pearland (Houston). If you would like to call me and discuss your problems, PM me and I'll send you my phone number.

 

[concho_joe]

I used CA to glue tubes 1 time because I was trying to get a pen done quick. I won't do that agian. I use 5 min epoxy for tubes and CA on my finish.

 

[turn4fun]

When I began making pens about 2 years ago, I used med CA and waited a good hour or so before squaring and turning. Occasionally the CA would set up so fast that I couldn't get the tube all the way into the blank. In addition, I didn't like cleaning the CA off my hands.

So, I switched to 5 min. epoxy. Have been using it for more than a year now and really like it. I find that waiting for 1-1/2 to 2 hours is enough to square up the blanks on my disk sander and then begin turning. This also works in the winter when my garage temperature runs in the 45 degree range.. Larry

 

[randyrls]

Well today it happened again...and this time, the tube glued itself to the barrel trimmer. I had to soak the trimmer/brass tube in acetone and peel off (by tearing!) the brass piece by piece...and unfortunately I don't have any extra tubes for that kit, so now the whole order is delayed because I'm too impatient to use epoxy.

I believe that CA is getting into the tube and the friction generated by the pilot is causing the glue to stick to the pen mill. Do not depend on the pen mill to remove CA from the tube. Block the far end of the tube with dental wax, or Play Dough.

The IAP Wiki has an article on blank preparation. Please take a look.

 

[Drstrangefart]

Dude, if you ever have a tube glue itself down like that, heat it up on an open flame of some sort. You can work the tube back off, if you're careful and will probably have to sand some burrs off. If there's wiggle room in one end of the blank, fill it in with thin CA. I wait 45 minutes to 2 hours before hitting the blank with the pen mill. I've also had tubes glue down due to being in too much of a hurry. I als tag the ends with accellerator to make sure the part I'm working with the pen mill is dry. It gets easier with practice. If you do 3 or 4 pens a night for a while, you will get the hang of it.

 

[scrollsawwoodart]

Epoxy

I have been using epoxy since the second month of my 1 year of turning. I get the 5 min epoxy from wally-world and I only wait maybe 20-30 mins before turning. I have also only gave it about 10 min when I am in a rush to get a pen out and it works just fine.

Some tricks that I use to get a good bond is to coat the inside of the wood with a scrap piece of wood maybe 1/8"x1/8" with epoxy then roll the tube in the epoxy and twist the tube going in.

Also I put clay in the tubes before I put them in the epoxy. Maybe just the first 1/8" of each side to prevent the epoxy from getting inside the tube.

Hope this helps
Jesse

 

[JimB]

Well the CA says it takes 15 or 30 seconds, I forget which, and I wait 2 minutes. It's definitely uncured on occasion after the two minute wait, as that's how the tube can come back out of the blank...but why it's uncured after two minutes I'm not clear on.

I live in central Texas...it's not warm right now, but it's not frigid either. It's been between 40 and 65 over the past few afternoons I've worked.

If there is glue sitting inside the tube there is nothing causing it to cure. It is no different then sqeezing out a line on paper to roll the tube in. As soon as you press the barrel trimmer in it cures. If you just give a little spray of accelerator into the tube it will cure in seconds and you can trim away. Of course not getting glue in the tube is also a solution.

 

[Ruby pen turning]

I just leave the 7mm trimmer in no matter what size tube it is. Then i just make sure there is no glue in the tube and clean up the edge of the tube with one of those tapered trimmer thingies.

 

[turner.curtis]

Drstrangefart has an excellent suggestion for any stuck tubes on the mill. Just grab a propane based torch for soldering and heat it up and tad and pull off with pliers. May help if you have the mill spinning slowly. This will work for epoxy also if you happen to need to break the bond. Back when I was shooting in a lot of across the course highpower matches, we used 5 min epoxy to set m14 barreled actions in to synthetic stocks on top of a nice bisonite bedding, to insure that the action was solid in the stock. To pull them out to re-barrel or etc we just applied a bit of heat...

 

[workinforwood]

yea...you gotta slow down, not just for gluing but for drilling. You said the bit elongates the hole sometimes...that is a symptom of drilling at too high a speed. I gave up on CA long ago, I use 5 min epoxy and 30 minutes later it can become a pen. The main reason though is not because of adhesion problems with CA, it's more because of the set time. Most pens I make require the tube to be in a certain location..CA does not allow any time to put the tube exactly where you want it, you bang it in and that's that...unless you bang it in and it goes half way in and then sets up and won't go any further because the glue is setting and now you are in a whole new pickle. Fingers are sticky, maybe burning, and the tube is stuck half way in the hole..wonderful. CA is pretty toxic, it eats paint if the paint isn't dry enough, you can go on forever about CA and tube issues.

 

[Padre]

After you make pens for a while, you may decide it is easier to wait a day after you glue.

At least that's what I decided---no problems, ever since.

What Ed said. :biggrin:

 

[okiebugg]

heat

I have 15 minute epoxy and I tried it after 30-40 minutes twice and it was gummy and the tubes still came out of the blank...so now I don't take chances with it and I set a 2 hour timer.

Epoxy like many glues when exposed to heat will cure much faster. When gluing with epoxy, as I do in most projects, I will put a bench lamp on a flexible head and move it down 4 to 5 inches away from the project and leave it for about 10 minutes. Using 5 minute epoxy, you will find that it is cured.

 

[moke]

After you make pens for a while, you may decide it is easier to wait a day after you glue.

At least that's what I decided---no problems, ever since.

+1--with Ed for me
I try to make up 6 to 10 kits at once, in the long run it goes much faster. I got some trays and put the bushings, the blank and kit for each pen in that tray. I do that when I have a couple of pens left from the previous batch still to turn. With the new batch I cut, drill on the lathe, paint the inside of tubes --TWICE, Turn a pen from the previous batch in there while the paint is drying over night, glue up the new batch with epoxy, wait over night, turn the other previous pen if I have time. It works out great. Your pen production is spuratic, ie; you may have a night with no finished products then you may have a night with 4 or 5.

I got the idea from some one else on here that I can not remember who. Thanks to whomever that was! Remember, if you are only waiting a few minutes or an hour, that when you stick the tubes in the blanks, it has very limited exposure to the air, which is what makes it dry fast....so overnight is sure to be better...less mistakes and problems....save $$$$.

I have to say also, I reluctantly went to epoxy. I read several posts about how epoxy was easier to work with. I tried it and I have never got tubes stuck half way in blanks...it's easier to get off your fingers. I am glad I switched.

 

[galoot_loves_tools]

I have been using epoxy since the second month of my 1 year of turning. I get the 5 min epoxy from wally-world and I only wait maybe 20-30 mins before turning. I have also only gave it about 10 min when I am in a rush to get a pen out and it works just fine.

Some tricks that I use to get a good bond is to coat the inside of the wood with a scrap piece of wood maybe 1/8"x1/8" with epoxy then roll the tube in the epoxy and twist the tube going in.

Also I put clay in the tubes before I put them in the epoxy. Maybe just the first 1/8" of each side to prevent the epoxy from getting inside the tube.

Hope this helps
Jesse

I use 5-min epoxy and do the same thing, make sure the inside of the tube is coated and then roll the tube in the epoxy before inserting. I use apple to plug the ends of the tubes. I eat the half of the apple I don't use.

 

[Shock me]

I've just changed to epoxy too. While I miss the "instant gratification" of CA, I find that I'm actually much MORE efficient because I now work more in batches---cut and drill a few blanks, epoxy the tubes in and set them aside overnight. Now I've always got a backlog of blanks ready for the lathe.

For a while, I was coloring my tubes with a sharpie---CA was not compatible while the epoxy was.

 

[Jgrden]

I've glued a few tubes to the squaring bit as well. I just use a file to file off one side and they peal right off. The tube, most always is a loss unless enough time passes to let the bit cool and condense from the tube.

 

[chriselle]

Use 5 min epoxy and let them cure overnight. But hey,,my pens take months to finish so what's one more day..

 

[Snnej]

What's 5 minute epoxy? Is there a brand name?
I used CA glue in the beginning and had a couple of failures so I switched to Gorilla glue. It works great. I usually leave it over night. but last night I got brave and squared the ends after a couple of hours and things went fine, thank goodness.
Jenn

 

[ctubbs]

Epoxy comes in a variety of cure times. 5 minute is one of the faster cure formulas. There is also 30 minute and 60 minute readily available. Custom times can be had for special applications but either high prices or large quantities are required for these. I purchase all my adhesives from Monty here on IAP. His are always fresh and top quality. Here is the link to his site;
http://woodenwonderstx.com/WWBlue/index.html
His service and prices are top of the line. In all the post here I have read, I have never seen any negative comments on him.
The 5 minute epoxy will give an open time of 3 to 7 minutes depending on ambient temperature, the warmer, the faster it sets up. When using it, have everything ready before you start to mix the two parts. Only mix what you can use in a short time as it will set up on you and be wasted. As you become used to using it, you will learn how much to mix. It is better to mix a small amount and run out of mix than to mix a large amount and then throw it away. Everything else you did with CA applies with epoxy, sand tubes, plug tubes, insert with twist, you know the drill.
Charles

 

[Snnej]

Epoxy comes in a variety of cure times. 5 minute is one of the faster cure formulas. There is also 30 minute and 60 minute readily available. Custom times can be had for special applications but either high prices or large quantities are required for these. I purchase all my adhesives from Monty here on IAP. His are always fresh and top quality. Here is the link to his site;
http://woodenwonderstx.com/WWBlue/index.html
His service and prices are top of the line. In all the post here I have read, I have never seen any negative comments on him.
The 5 minute epoxy will give an open time of 3 to 7 minutes depending on ambient temperature, the warmer, the faster it sets up. When using it, have everything ready before you start to mix the two parts. Only mix what you can use in a short time as it will set up on you and be wasted. As you become used to using it, you will learn how much to mix. It is better to mix a small amount and run out of mix than to mix a large amount and then throw it away. Everything else you did with CA applies with epoxy, sand tubes, plug tubes, insert with twist, you know the drill.
Charles

Thanks for the info. I'll have to give it a try.

 

[Chris Bar]

Have used only CA, but fresh CA. Old glue takes longer to set; could age be your problem? Do you remove the lacquer from the brass tube which is applied by manufacturer to prevent oxidation? I have done tests that show removal is moot, but some folks have better luck with bare brass.

 

[ctubbs]

Cleaning tubes

Have used only CA, but fresh CA. Old glue takes longer to set; could age be your problem? Do you remove the lacquer from the brass tube which is applied by manufacturer to prevent oxidation? I have done tests that show removal is moot, but some folks have better luck with bare brass.

Anytime that anything foreign is between an adhesive and the material to be adhered, there is the probability of failure at that point. The cleaner the two surfaces to be stuck together, the better and stronger the joint between the two surfaces. The scuffing of the tubes is not only to remove foreign material but to give the tube 'tooth'. The fine groves cut into the brass give the adhesive something to grab onto to hold. The brass or plastic is smooth and sanding it helps the adhesive get a grip on the tube.
Charles