I need grinder info

[artmakersworlds]

Time to get one, but before I do, best to ask you pros.
Harborfrieght has a ton, anywhere from dinky (file your nails size) on up.
Does it matter?

I'm just guessing, a mid size, but then find better grinding wheels.
yes? No? If so what and where?

My daughter just bought a small grinder, with a different grit stone on each side. One spins true, but the other has a slight wobble.
Is this normal? Adjustable? Doesnt' matter?

Post your best advice for a beginner.

(Also, HOW does one sharpen drill bits? I'm sure that will come up eventually.)

ps, I may have started this topic before but must not have subscribed. Can't find it now. This one I am subscribed to. Admins please delete the other.

 

[monophoto]

The gurus tell us that we should use 8" low speed grinders. Of course, when they say that, they are spending our money and not theirs.

I bought the least expensive Ryobi 6" high speed grinder that Home Despot offered, and I'm not sorry. The differences are:
- when grinding for x seconds, if is a fact that you will remove less tool steel with a low speed grinder than with a high speed grinder. However, if you use a light touch with a high-speed grinder, the actual difference will be small.
- an 8" grinder will produce a 'less hollow' grind than an 8" grinder. I don't find this to be an issue for me.

When you buy a grinder, it will come with two wheels, typically 32 and 60 grit. 32 is OK for coarse shaping, but 60 is a bit coarse for fine sharpening. I replaced my 60 grit wheel with an 80g aluminum oxide wheel. OEM wheels tend to be gray, but the color of the replacement wheel is not especially important.

It is a good idea to have a wheel truing tool. I don't use mine often, but it's convenient to tune up a wheel every few months.

Getting a grinder with a built-in work light is great - the problem is that on most grinders, the light is only on when the motor is running. It's not hard to rewire a grinder so that you switch on the light and leave it on as you are adjusting jigs and getting set up to grind.

Just yesterday, I was in Lowes and noticed that they have 8" variable speed grinders that are priced about twice what I paid for my 6" high speed grinder. If I had to do it over, I would be tempted.

Drill bits: you can sharpen ordinary twist drill bits on a standard grinder, but only if the bit is reasonably large. I've sharpened 1/4" bits - 1/8" bits would be a challenge. The best option is a bit sharpener - Drill Doctor is a well known brand. But even with a DD, there is minimum size below which its less expensive to just buy a replacement bit. In my case, the small bits tend to break before I used them enough to have to think about sharpening them, so that's not a real concern.

By the way, the best tool to sharpen Forstner bits is a diamond paddle.

 

[artmakersworlds]

Ah this is great. I had to go searching for "hollow grinds." Found a slew of assorted forum posts and it seems answers are all over the place. Looks like I'll just have to play around and learn what I like. Seems to be the best answer. Do what works for you.

Still need to look up a truing tool…. tired. Tomorrow.

Thanks. Good stuff.

 

[Robert Taylor]

http://www.penturners.org/forum/f14/grinding-grinder-questions-147575/
Not much has changed in the grinding world in the last two weeks. I found your previous posts and you can too. Click on you ID and the "see all posts"

 

[artmakersworlds]

I'm not finding it. Looking under subscribed threads (why one someone starts isn't by default subscribed I'll never understand.) I just don't see where "see all posts" is located.

Searched threads I've joined under quick links, nothing.

Isn't there a link to threads I started? in my profile somewhere?????

Glad you posted a link. I'll head over there now. So… lets stop using this one then.

[[[END.]]] (admins merge or delete this one.)

thanks.

 

[jttheclockman]

I'm not finding it. Looking under subscribed threads (why one someone starts isn't by default subscribed I'll never understand.) I just don't see where "see all posts" is located.

Searched threads I've joined under quick links, nothing.

Isn't there a link to threads I started? in my profile somewhere?????

Glad you posted a link. I'll head over there now. So… lets stop using this one then.

[[[END.]]] (admins merge or delete this one.)

thanks.

If you are ever looking for a thread you started or one you posted to, the easiest thing to do is click on your sign-on name and then click statistics. You can find all your posts you started, the ones you posted to and the ones you just liked.

 

[magpens]

I recommend a Drill Doctor Model 750 for drills ... that's their top model and I wouldn't go cheaper.

There are other brands but I don't remember them. . Google

As for sharpening lathe tools, this is so important that I wouldn't go cheap on this.
8" is much better than 6". Throw away the grey stones that come with it and get the bluish stones (or white ?) and definitely go for slow speed (1600 RPM ?). Ask one of the experts here.

If you can afford it, the best to buy are the metal-diamond CBN wheels ... at about $150 each although you can get by with one stone (blue ? for roughing) and one CBN ( ? 300 grit for final edge).

Don't forget to leave enough money for a Wolverine sharpening jig and accessories $150+

I have often wondered if this type of grinder would do the job:

Buy 10in. Wet Grinder Craftex at Busy Bee Tools

 

[leehljp]

The wet grinder that Mal posted - is available from Grizzly for about $80 less.

10" Wet Grinder Kit - Anniversary Edition | Grizzly Industrial

I have the Grizzly and it takes a different set and kind of sharpeners than the Wolverine system but, while not sure, I think you can use the wolverine on the Grizzly. I use a couple of former jigs for the Grizzly.

One of the advantages of the CBN is lack of heat, which is very beneficial. This is primarily in comparison to DRY grinders. Wet grinders keep the temp down also.

Drill Doctor for bits. 500 minimum or 750 model will serve you best in a wider variety of situations. A drill sharpener is not just a "drill sharpener".

Two caveats: You can sharpen drill bits by hand on a grinder but without CONSIDERABLE experience, you will not be able to do it with a professional like touch.
You can use a cheap grinder without a problem. Some do, but they have considerable experience (and often refuse to recognize that aspect) and say that you can use a cheap grinder all day long. THEY can, because of their experience and skill. There was a post a few days ago about buying the cheapest set of tools, and for some, could not get past a certain level and give up. THAT is the question of buying cheaper tools. Will it get you to the next step and do you have the skill set to use it to the next step or will it discourage you and make you want to quit?

I am experienced in some things, but I realize that others are not. I could say "I did it to a professional level on a cheap tool, so can you". BUT I must realize that others don't have my years of experience and skill set developed over the years.

IF I could personally tutor you, I could possibly cut the years needed down to 1 year or in some months, in the right setting; but over a forum, this is a longer process and that is what often discourages many people who choose the cheaper tools.

 

[Curly]

Hank if you do the exchange on the Grizzly it costs $35Can more than the Busy Bee. $270Can vs $235Can.

If you buy a bench grinder look at the wheels on it before you toss them out. Sometimes the grey wheel is Aluminium Oxide just like the white ones. There is a letter/number code on the paper blotter/disc on the wheels that tell you what it is. You will need to take it off the grinder to see it. Never throw away the paper discs! They even out the stress between the wheel and washer. Industrial grinding wheels are normally grey and the maker of the grinder may be buying them for their grinders rather than the white.

 

[designer]

I have and ue the Grizzly. It works well. I also bought a diamond truing tool. No vibration or wobble on mine. Here is the link to the $149 grinder. The Tormek fixtures work on it as well as the Grizzly fixtures.
10" Wet Grinder Kit - Anniversary Edition | Grizzly Industrial

 

[donstephan]

An important consideration is what you expect to need to sharpen. Many woodturners on other forums give a specific grinding wheel code best suited to lathe tools, and say the stock wheels are not the best choice. But if the grinder is mainly for lawn mower blades and such, the stock wheels may be fine.

The platform on many grinders may not be helpful for much more than lawn mower blades and such. For freehand sharpening of lathe tools I've found the Robo Rest to be wonderfully efficient. Most turners insist on the Wolverine jig, which itself is pricey.

Traditional grinding wheels slowly wear away as they are used; a 6" wheel has a smaller circumference and therefore will wear away at a faster rate. The CBN wheel comments that were common six months ago suggested essentially they would not wear away.

Water cooled wheels are less likely to overheat the item being ground. Many modern lathe tools supposedly are not affected by "normal" sharpening heat. Water cooled wheels will be much slower to remove the same amount of metal as a traditional grinder.

So what are your requirements for a grinder?

 

[artmakersworlds]

So far, my "requirements" are minimal. As for drill bits, forget it. Sounds like only big ones are worth the trouble and frankly even those aren't so expensive I can't just as easily replace when warn. So forget that.

So far the only tools I have are one Ez tool, carbide so probably not needing a grinder at all. (Darn expensive, wish I'd have shopped first.)

Then I got a few from http://pennstateind.com An oval skew, and JUST came, haven't even used it yet, a nice good size roughing gouge.
So far, that's it.

I'm back to thinking, mid size grinder (look for variable speed if at all possible) a truing tool, and maybe get a better quality disk.
No rush on any of this. At the moment I actually have a customer asking for faux cinnabar, which is poly clay and nothing I need to turn at all. So be awhile before I play with my lathe again. Gives me time to study up.

 

[joshua_luther77]

Wen sells a slow speed 8" grinder for just under $90 on Amazon.

Sent from my VS988 using Tapatalk

 

[JimB]

Instead of buying a mid- size grinder and replacing the wheels I would suggest buying the Rikon 8" Slow Speed Grinder. It already comes with the proper AO wheels. It is available from Woodcraft, Rockler and Craft Supply for $139.99. All 3 places also run sales for it on a regular basis for $99.99 but no one has it on sale right now.

As far as your EWT carbide, you are correct, you do not sharpen them on a grinder. You either replace the cutters when they dull or you can sharpen them on a flat diamond card. And yes, carbide tools are generally expensive and replacing the cutters can also cost a few bucks.

The HSS tools you bought from Penn State probably need sharpening before using them. I have several tools from them and although they may feel sharp and will cut OK right out of the box, sharpening them will make them even better. The skew should also be honed to get a proper, very, very sharp edge. Of all the tools, the skew really needs to have the sharpest of all edges. BTW, for many people, including myself, the skew can be the most challenging tool to learn to use. However, once you learn how to use it you will be amazed at what you can do with it and the incredibly smooth finish it leaves.

 

[Robert Taylor]

Getting a grinder

So far, my "requirements" are minimal. As for drill bits, forget it. Sounds like only big ones are worth the trouble and frankly even those aren't so expensive I can't just as easily replace when warn. So forget that.

So far the only tools I have are one Ez tool, carbide so probably not needing a grinder at all. (Darn expensive, wish I'd have shopped first.)

Then I got a few from http://pennstateind.com An oval skew, and JUST came, haven't even used it yet, a nice good size roughing gouge.
So far, that's it.

I'm back to thinking, mid size grinder (look for variable speed if at all possible) a truing tool, and maybe get a better quality disk.
No rush on any of this. At the moment I actually have a customer asking for faux cinnabar, which is poly clay and nothing I need to turn at all. So be awhile before I play with my lathe again. Gives me time to study up.

You say that you have a customer, GREAT. Sell a few pens and use the profits to acquire the essential tools that you will need. I tell people that my pen turning "habit" makes me feel like a drug addict. I sell just enough pens to "feed" my "habit".

 

[artmakersworlds]

Instead of buying a mid- size grinder and replacing the wheels I would suggest buying the Rikon 8" Slow Speed Grinder. It already comes with the proper AO wheels. It is available from Woodcraft, Rockler and Craft Supply for $139.99.

BTW, for many people, including myself, the skew can be the most challenging tool to learn to use. However, once you learn how to use it you will be amazed at what you can do with it and the incredibly smooth finish it leaves.

Ok, I think 130ish is a good price. I"ll aim for that one.

As for that tool? I LOVE it. Watched a really good video about how to do those laser cut blanks and he used that tool. Explained how to use it right. I had to have it. And sure enough, I've been playing with scrap wood, cutting beads, V shapes, smooth, you name it. Even comes in handy getting a blank free from the spacers after using CA glue. Worked like a charm.
(Yea, those nylon non stick spacers are on my to get list.)

 

[artmakersworlds]

You say that you have a customer, GREAT. Sell a few pens and use the profits to acquire the essential tools that you will need. I tell people that my pen turning "habit" makes me feel like a drug addict. I sell just enough pens to "feed" my "habit".

I'd have more IF I could get my site fixed up. I sold on etsy, two shops. Perfect feedback. They got stupid and greedy, I complained too much and whammo, booted.
Moved to Artfire. AWESOME site. At first. Then they got stupid, and greedy, I complained too much and whammo, gone. (I really need to learn to just shut up.)

So to heck with third party venue sites that suddenly slap ads all over our listings. I have a good host, plenty of space…. My problem is I learned web code in the 90s. It's not done that way anymore. (Then again, using ANY device, on ANY browser, my site works.)
But if I want to open a store, I really need to make it more google friendly.
Which means relearning code all over, (rather jump off a bridge.)
OR learning software.
Found one. Called EverWeb. Downloaded the trial version just to learn. Had every intention of buying it once I figure it out.
Drag and drop, how hard can it be right?
Well!!!!
They have a long bank of video tutorials. But the first few I started playing, and following along with, I'm stuck right off the bat.
Seems they decided to "upgrade" the software, MOVED all the tools, but never upgraded the videos.
SO the guy in the video points to a row of tools along the bottom, says "to create a new page simply click the new page icon.)
Only the new version I have, those tools are NOT to be found.
I spent an hour searching menus, posting in their forum, got an answer "they are on top." Of what? MT. Everest?
I get so frustrated I can't see straight and just have to walk way.
Been walking away a lot.
So no store on line right now at all.

BUT…. images I posted on pinterest, long ago from my artfire shop, (and smartly all watermarked with MY site name. Always do that people.)
Anyway people find ME. not as often as when I had a store, but they still do find and contact me. It's encouraging to say the least.

now if ONLY I could learn this darn software.
And if not…. well dated though it is, again it works. I could just build my shop the old fashion way. Only geeks would know the difference. (Yea well google might. But they don't wag this dog.)

 

[artmakersworlds]

HEY what about this one? I looked up the RIKON one and it doesn't say variable speed. Just low.
This one is variable. DELTA 23-197 8" Variable speed bench grinder NEW | eBay

Says two grinding grits, but not what they are. Still looking around.

Here's another one, even cheaper.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/WEN-4280-5-...7d8fdfc&pid=100009&rk=1&rkt=2&sd=281597362205

 

[Firebucket53]

Walmart online

Found this at Walmart online.

 

[JimB]

HEY what about this one? I looked up the RIKON one and it doesn't say variable speed. Just low.
This one is variable. DELTA 23-197 8" Variable speed bench grinder NEW | eBay

Says two grinding grits, but not what they are. Still looking around.

Here's another one, even cheaper.
WEN 4280 5 Amp 8'' Variable Speed Bench Grinder with Work Light | eBay

The Rikon is a better choice. SLOW speed is 1750 rpm. If you get variable speed you would use only the slowest speed, 2000, rpm. The aluminum oxide (AO) wheels on the Rikon are better than the grey wheels on your linked grinders for HSS. The Rikon grits are better also. 60 For shaping and 120 for sharpening. You will not find a better grinder that the Rikon in that price range. To get something better you would need to get CBN wheels and you would be easily doubling your cost.

 

[leehljp]

Found this at Walmart online.

THAT is a GREAT Buy. I have the Grizzly and the Wen is BOTH direction. Gives one a few more options if you know how to use the reverse with the jigs.

 

[artmakersworlds]

I thought being variable would give me options to do other things. High speed might fix an old rusty axe. BUT…

That being said, much more important for turning tools. Haven't needed the axe really. (it's so dull, it's more like a blunt club.)

Ok, I'll watch for sales. The wen one seems to have as many horrible reviews as good ones. So naaa. Cheap isn't always best.

 

[Curly]

Turning tools are mostly made of one form or another of High Speed Steel (HSS). The alloys were originally made for metal cutting at near red hot temperatures without loosing temper. You can't really overheat it while sharpening but you can damage it by dipping it in cold water to cool it. The quenching causes microscopic cracks in the edges so the won't stay sharp. Set it aside to cool slowly.

An axe, carving chisel, carpenters chisels and plane blades are usually made of carbon steel that looses temper when it gets hot. If the edge turns blue it has lost the temper (gets soft) and you have to grind back to remove all the colour to get to hard metal again. With HSS getting blue doesn't matter.

So fixing axes, lawn mower blades and the like you need to have a grinder that turns slower or have soft wheels that shed grit, staying sharp, and don't heat the metal. Higher speed grinders are more for shaping steel for welding than sharpening. The wheels for that are harder so that is why everyone tells you to buy new wheels when you get a cheap grinder that doesn't have the right ones for tools.

Buying a grinder sounds like it should be easy but for specialized work like turning and woodworking you need to adapt a cheap one with new wheels and tool rests or pay a little more for one equiped already. The other thing to note is a cheap grinder may not have good bearings, straight true shafts and good nuts and washers, where a better one will. You won't see it looking at them but turn them both on and the better one will be smoother and when shut off seem to turn forever before finally stopping, showing you how much better the bearings are.

This is one time that following the advice of the forum is in your best interest.

 

[jttheclockman]

If i can make another suggestion and you do as you wish but anyone who buys a grinder of any kind make sure you examine the wheels real good and if I were you I would do the ring test on them even though this requires you take them off. A cracked wheel can be very dangerous. Also know how to use a grinder properly too. Tools that spin at high rates of spin can be projectiles. Good luck with your choice.

 

[gtriever]

I've just replaced a grinder, and bought a 6" Delta variable speed. It does a fair job of sharpening tools if you're careful and take your time. Having said that, I'm strongly considering picking up a Harbor Freight 1x30 belt sander and modifying it to use exclusively for knife blades and turning tools.

 

[artmakersworlds]

Turning tools are mostly made of one form or another of High Speed Steel (HSS). The alloys were originally made for metal cutting at near red hot temperatures without loosing temper. You can't really overheat it while sharpening but you can damage it by dipping it in cold water to cool it. The quenching causes microscopic cracks in the edges so the won't stay sharp. Set it aside to cool slowly.

An axe, carving chisel, carpenters chisels and plane blades are usually made of carbon steel that looses temper when it gets hot. If the edge turns blue it has lost the temper (gets soft) and you have to grind back to remove all the colour to get to hard metal again. With HSS getting blue doesn't matter.

So fixing axes, lawn mower blades and the like you need to have a grinder that turns slower or have soft wheels that shed grit, staying sharp, and don't heat the metal. Higher speed grinders are more for shaping steel for welding than sharpening. The wheels for that are harder so that is why everyone tells you to buy new wheels when you get a cheap grinder that doesn't have the right ones for tools.

Buying a grinder sounds like it should be easy but for specialized work like turning and woodworking you need to adapt a cheap one with new wheels and tool rests or pay a little more for one equiped already. The other thing to note is a cheap grinder may not have good bearings, straight true shafts and good nuts and washers, where a better one will. You won't see it looking at them but turn them both on and the better one will be smoother and when shut off seem to turn forever before finally stopping, showing you how much better the bearings are.

This is one time that following the advice of the forum is in your best interest.

OH wow, this is the best post I've read yet. Ok, you have convinced me. Spend the extra bucks now and be glad.
This was very informative. Thanks! :smile-big:

 

[TonyL]

Turning tools are mostly made of one form or another of High Speed Steel
(HSS). The alloys were originally made for metal cutting at near red hot
temperatures without loosing temper. You can't really overheat it while
sharpening but you can damage it by dipping it in cold water to cool it. The
quenching causes microscopic cracks in the edges so the won't stay sharp. Set it
aside to cool slowly.

An axe, carving chisel, carpenters chisels and
plane blades are usually made of carbon steel that looses temper when it gets
hot. If the edge turns blue it has lost the temper (gets soft) and you have to
grind back to remove all the colour to get to hard metal again. With HSS getting
blue doesn't matter.

So fixing axes, lawn mower blades and the like you
need to have a grinder that turns slower or have soft wheels that shed grit,
staying sharp, and don't heat the metal. Higher speed grinders are more for
shaping steel for welding than sharpening. The wheels for that are harder so
that is why everyone tells you to buy new wheels when you get a cheap grinder
that doesn't have the right ones for tools.

Buying a grinder sounds
like it should be easy but for specialized work like turning and woodworking you
need to adapt a cheap one with new wheels and tool rests or pay a little more
for one equiped already. The other thing to note is a cheap grinder may not have
good bearings, straight true shafts and good nuts and washers, where a better
one will. You won't see it looking at them but turn them both on and the better
one will be smoother and when shut off seem to turn forever before finally
stopping, showing you how much better the bearings are.

Which grinder do you like? Baldor? Thanks!

 

[Curly]

I'd love to own a Baldor but it is out of my price range and as I have a couple now I don't need another. I have a Kefmotor, made in Denmark that I bought 30 years ago that I wish I had bought more of at the time. I also have a 2 speed from BusyBee that they no longer sell that is decent considering it was from China. I had a Princess Auto (Harbor Freight equivalent) cheapy that I gave to a buddy when I packed up for moving that was barely adequate. If I were in your neck of the woods I would get the Rikon or if flush with cash an American made machine.

 

[artmakersworlds]

Hey look at this. https://www.woodcraft.com

My daughter lives between my house and Grand Rapids. Works up in GR.
I see a road trip in my future. Might be a few weeks.

 

[monophoto]

Hey look at this. https://www.woodcraft.com

My daughter lives between my house and Grand Rapids. Works up in GR.
I see a road trip in my future. Might be a few weeks.

Methinks someone has fallen into the vortex - - -

 

[mdburn_em]

A grinder alternate

I have lusted after the Tormek since, well, forever but can't justify the price.
I bought the 8" slow speed grinder from Woodcraft and the Wolverine Sharpening system with all of the attachments. Several hundred dollars and while it was ok, it wasn't great. I knew I could spend $150 and get a really nice wheel but would it take my sharpening to great?

Enter the Worksharp 3000. These are the same people that make the Drill Dr.

I am still working out how to use this device. One of my favorite tools for pens is a spindle master. I butchered that thing trying to sharpen it with my grinder once. I didn't understand how it was supposed to be sharpened and found out after I ruined it. I have it beautiful now, thanks to the WS 3000. When I get all my facts down, I'm going to put a review in for this tool.

In my opinion, this is a tool that is better suited than a grinder is for sharpening our shop tools. You will pay about the same amount for the system and accoutrements as you will if you buy a grinder, very good wheels and a Wolverine or similar system perhaps slightly less. You DO have to purchase sandpaper as your sharpening medium. The Worksharp disks are expensive. I make my own.

They also make a knife sharpener. I have the Ken Onion edition. That thing is fantastic. I will be doing a review on that as well.