How many things am I doing wrong?

[Zortag]

or more importantly what could I be doing better/differently

Hi All,

I started turning last summer, and with the winter being what it is in this end of the world, didn't get much done in the garage/workshop till now.

I just cleaned out the place and I'm hoping to fire up the lathe this weekend and start spending as much time in there as I can before the next winter comes :wink:

Before I do, I thought I'd outline how I do things and see if there are any suggestions I can incorporate into my workflow....here goes (at this point I want to mention that I have read through most of the threads on the forum, and I have a good idea of the things to do differently I just need a little help with some of them:biggrin Also, I apologize for the wall of text:

sawing the blank: i think I've got this part undercontrol, using a tabletop bandsaw, not much to report

Drilling the blank: I am using an older King benchtop model that has some issues. It's very small for starters: I barely have enough room to fit 1/2 a blank between the bit and the table, it's annoying. due to this I can't used a vise, so I keep 2 pieces of wood with an approximately correct sized notch cut out, clamp them around the blank and drill that way. The drill does not quite drill straight...usually it's not too bad, just enough to be able to tell that it's coming out of the other side of the blank slightly off center. I haven't made any turnings where symmetry is important so I have been brushing it off. I've only ruined about 3 of 15 or so....looking back that's a pretty bad failure rate, maybe things are worse than I thought...anyways: moving on.

Squaring the Blank: I use my belt/disc sander to square the faces then I usually give it a shot with a barrel trimmer in a cordless drill, holding the blank in my han-....I mean vise. Again, this seems to work well enough, no major fitting problems in my recent pens.

On the lathe: I start running into a few question/issues here. I pretty much only use a roughing gouge. I have a bunch of other tools (lee valley kit) and I've tried with the skew but it tends to end badly...When people say that they use only the skew, does that apply to rounding the blank and everything? I use a mandrel, it seems to treat me well enough, I like it for now. I shape it with the gouge and sand it smooth with 120-240-400

Finishing: after my first couple of pens, I started trying a CA finish. Not having access to the body of knowledge that I have now I started my own technique....that compared to some, now seems unbearably slow and annoying :wink:. I take the blank of the lathe, spread some CA on the blank, then smooth it out with a q-tip. let it dry for about a minute (usually do the other blank at this point) throw them both back on the lathe, sand with Micro Mesh 1500, repeat for about 3 coats, then bring it up through the micro mesh pads.

As I was reading this forum, staring at my pen, it seemed like what I thought was originally the king **** of all finishing jobs was pretty rough. however while cleaning the garage found some orphaned finished blanks (that's from not paying attention at assembly and putting stuff in backwards) and the finish was up to snuff with the nice clear finishes on the forum here...so it work well enough. i'm going to try the BLO/CA finish next and see how that goes.

Assembly: I use a clamp that I squeeze until everything fits. The step I am most comfortable with, it's quick, easy and I don't need to buy anything I don't already have.

Other Stuff:
Tools: Being completely self taught, mostly from the internet and few books, one thing that is never really mentioned is how sharp should my tools be. I am currently using a belt sander at 220grit freehand and I'm getting what I think are decent results.....but what do I know? After all I use a roughing gouge for everything:biggrin:. I am getting shavings not dust, but when I look at youtube videos of bigger turnings, I see streams of glorious wood, unbroken, comeing of the blank (I assume it's because they are not dried yet) so I don't know if I'm just out to lunch and if I'd be better off using a spoon

Dust/fumes: Last year I only used a dust mask when I was sanding....then I believe I inhaled a little too much Padauk one night, since I had flu-symptoms for 3 days but no fever...now I use a N95 dust mask while turning. I open the garage doors so I get some airflow. I don't use any vapour masks when applying CA, but from reading on the forum you can develop a sensitivity to it, and I'm not sure if I should worry or not.


From what I know, I'm expecting people to tell me to buy a bigger drill press or chuck to drill on the lathe. Buy a grinder with a friable wheel and a jig of somekind to keep tools sharp. Invest in a good dust collection system. If that's the advice I get, then so be it. But I have limitations:

money is obviously one of them. I would like to have a 3K dust collection system, but that's not happening. I bought my lathe at busybee tools and my drill press at a garage sale...enough said.

Another concern is that I am leaving the country next year...but I don't know where yet. (I work in the foreign service) I am hoping that some of our international members can chime in with suggestions regarding this scenario....I may or may not have room for a full workshop, it have to turn into something much smaller.

Knowledge is my last concern. that's a not so subtle hint to people in the ottawa gatineau area, in case anyone is feeling generous with time and wouldn't mind holding my hand (figureatively, not literally)

Well if any of you made it this far, I appreciate it, and if you've already spent this much time on the thread you may as well answer right?:tongue:

Thanks,

Ross.

 

[jimbob91577]

Learn to use your skew. There are a few YouTube videos that show good skew technique. I too am self tought, when I was learning how to use the skew, I would take a blank about 12" long and 1.5" square - round it out with my roughing gouge and start cutting beads. Remember, ONLY USE THE POINT/HEEL OF THE TOOL when cutting beads. The technique I found easiest was to first cut a V groove using the point of the skew. Once I had the V grove, I twist the tool over and use the heel of the skew to make the actual bead. There is an article/video by Richard Raffan here: http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/SkillsAndTechniques/SkillsAndTechniquesArticle.aspx?id=28180 - that demonstrates this technique. You can also check out this magazine: http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/SkillsAndTechniques/SkillsAndTechniquesArticle.aspx?id=28765 that has several great articles about using various tools including the skew.

When I do pens, I use a modified spindle gouge, so don't feel bad about using a roughing gouge. I personally feel that if you can produce the results you're after using Tool-X, then unless you're looking for a faster way to produce something or achieve better tooling results, there isn't really a case to switch to Tool-Y.

Another alternative to you're drillpress issue could be drilling on the lathe. You will need a Jacobs Style chuck for this. Perhaps someone can provide a YouTube or IAP Article on this subject. This may help in keeping your wood shop from expanding in both storage and footprint capacity.

I think you'll be much happier with the BLO/CA finish...

Tools should be sharp. And by sharp, i mean really sharp. What I strive for is a nice clean bevel with no facets on it and a sharp edge that can shave the hair off your arm. To achieve this takes a lot of practice especially if you're doing it freehand. Achieving this, in combination to proper tool presentation, will produce those shavings you are looking for. Not having a sharp edge is dangerous - you will find yourself pushing your tools into the wood. Ask yourself, would you push Tool-X that hard into your arm? If not, why would you push it that hard into a rotating piece of lumber? Instead you want to guide the tool across the wood letting the rotating action provide the downward force needed to peel the shaving from the lumber. If you don't have a sharp tool, it takes more force to produce the shaving, it also means your natural instinct is to push harder making the tool grab more wood. Bad combination. My sharpening setup is a small 6" bench grinder that I have mounted on a small stack of MDF to elevate it off of my work bench. My father, who does a lot of metal fabrication, made me a grinding jig system, like the Wolverine system, out of some square bar steel. I think I have $50 invested in my setup. I did purchase the fingernail jig that OneWay manufactures though, which in itself was $50. So about $100 all together. This setup allows me to produce that consistent bevel I was talking about earlier.

If you have any other questions, please feel free to PM me...

 

[randyrls]

Drilling the blank: I am using an older King benchtop model that has some center. I haven't made any turnings where symmetry is important so I have been brushing it off. I've only ruined about 3 of 15 or so....looking back that's a pretty bad failure rate, maybe things are worse than I thought...anyways: moving on.

Ross; Mark the center of the blank(s) and drill from the center outward to minimize off-center exit. Also the nib and clip end are usually smaller than the center band area.

valley kit) and I've tried with the skew but it tends to end badly...When people say that they use only the skew, does that apply to rounding the blank and everything? I use a mandrel, it seems to treat me well enough, I

Mount blanks on mandrel and use belt sander to knock off corners before mounting on lathe.

annoying :wink:. I take the blank of the lathe, spread some CA on the blank, then smooth it out with a q-tip. let it dry for about a minute (usually do the other blank at this point) throw them both back on the lathe, sand with Micro Mesh 1500, repeat for about 3 coats, then bring it up through the micro mesh pads.

Many, most just apply the CA on the lathe. Use slow speed.

use a roughing gouge for everything:biggrin:. I am getting shavings not dust, but
when I look at youtube videos of bigger turnings, I see streams of glorious wood, unbroken, comeing of the blank (I assume it's because they are not dried yet) so I don't know if I'm just out to lunch and if I'd be better off using a spoon

If you are getting shavings, that is fine. Bowls are roughed out to approximate shape wet, then dried because it shortens the drying time. Blanks are so small that they are dried before you get them.

Dust/fumes: Last year I only used a dust mask when I was sanding....then I believe I inhaled a little too much Padauk one night, since I had flu-symptoms for 3 days but no fever...now I use a N95 dust mask while turning. I open the garage doors so I get some airflow. I don't use any vapour masks when applying CA, but from reading on the forum you can develop a sensitivity to it, and I'm not sure if I should worry or not.

Sensitivity to wood and CA develops over time and is cumulative. I would put a box fan blowing out the door and away from you.

Keep an eye on local estate sales, and craigslist for tools. You can often get tools on the cheap at estate sales.

 

[JDenney]

Ross,

My 02 cents worth is as follows:

Stay with the skew. I use my skew for everything. Once I got used to it, and figured out that cutting w/the skew is about staying in the middle of the blade, and keeping it sharp, then it all came together. Get some cheap blanks, and practice just using the skew. Catches will happen, but the more you use it, the less they will occur. I am barely proficient with the thing, and I can take shavings from acrylic blanks down to so thin I can almost see through them. I can also round a blank down really quickly when I need to, although I do use my belt sander to round edges on difficult to turn pieces. The only other thing I will say is that I went from the skew that came with my Harbor Freight HSS tool set to a 1" oval skew from Woodcraft. I haven't even ever taken the other tools out of the box in that set!

The other advantage of a skew is that you can sharpen it just like any other flat bladed woodworking tool by hand. While a grinder is nice, for a skew, using hand sharpening methods is plenty good enough. I have used the "scary sharp" method (google it for tons of info), and japanese water stones and now it is very rare for me to do anything other than strop my skew on a piece of leather with stropping compound. I'll do this once or twice per blank, and my edges stay "hair cutting" sharp. Sharpening tools with curves is more difficult, and I haven't yet developed the technique.

As far as drilling goes, if you are ok with the results and the capacity, then what you have is fine. I have both a drill press w/a 3" throw and a jacobs chuck and I actually prefer to drill w/the jacobs chuck as I get more consistent results that way (although this may just be me trying to justify the money I spent to buy the jacobs and the 4 jaw nova chuck )

I don't do much wood anymore, so I can't help w/the finishing. Finishing wood is one reason I moved mostly to other types of material.

Like you have heard, and will hear again, keep your tools sharp!

Do try to find some cheap blanks and practice with them. Just because you turn a blank to round doesn't mean you have to actually use it on a pen. Practicing on cheap blanks can also help you try new finishing techniques. I bought about a hundred black walnut blanks from a well known auction site for about $20 delivered, and I just look at using a blank as a 20 cent tuition payment on getting better! This reduced my stress level and gave me permission to deliberately mess things up. I wanted to feel how to cause a catch, so I'd know what not to do, chucked up a practice blank and deliberately dug in the toe and the heel of the skew to see (and feel!) the process. Total cost: 20 cents Total benefit, huge as I was able to actually experience the problem without being mad I'd just ruined an expensive blank!

Hope this helps, and good luck! Turning pens has really been a great hobby for me, and I hope it will be for you too.

Joe

 

[leehljp]

I had similar problems as you mentioned. It took me 1 1/2 years to perfect a CA finish. Until I perfected it for me, I got just enough good and occasional great finishes to keep me going.

I am a slow learner besides having pen turning time only about every other week on average. So, my advice to you - focus on one aspect at a time until you have that part down well. Then focus on another aspect. Don't let the goal of a "finished pen" hurry you past learning the individual steps well.

"Greatly finished pens" are a series of well done steps.

When working on perfecting CA finishes, I even did many blanks cut from pine 2X4s. I did not always turn the blank to size but did numerous blanks to near size and started on the CA. The experience helped and I became reasonably good with CA finishes.

Next, I changed my focus to "sizing" and measuring with calipers. It is not intuitive for everyone - to turn to the right size consistently. Now, I turn to within .5mm by sight. Then stop and sand to the size. While sizing, I practiced several aspects of using the scraper (and lately the skew). I focused on the "feel" or "feedback" through the handle; also I practiced on taking "miniscule" amounts off of the blank until I could do that consistently - developing "touch". I can now place a very small drop of CA on a finished pen, let it set and then "scrape" the CA ball/drop without going through the CA finish.

This "practice" has helped me considerably. Now, when I get through with a pen, have it assembled and then find that I need to disassemble and place back on the lathe because of one little bitty dimple that I missed seeing. I sure hate to start all over. But now, I can fill the dimple with a small drop of CA, let it harden and then scrape it down to the level of the rest of the pen, MM from 8000 - 12000, polish and inspect under a magnifying glass. Perfect.

It comes down to practicing each aspect until it becomes nearly natural. Like the old Karate Kid movie: Wax on, Wax off! :biggrin:

 

[seawolf]

On the drill press I had one that I needed more height but like you I had little cash. I took the tube out and went to a drive shaft shop. They found a piece of used stock the right diameter and cut it six inches longer for five dollers. Use the tools that work the best for you. Experiment with different finishes until you get what you want.
Mark

 

[jkeithrussell]

I like the skew also, but there is no reason to use it for roughing. That's what roughing gouges are for. Round the blank with the roughing gouge, then switch to the skew. (By the way, there is nothing wrong with using only a roughing gouge -- lots of people do that).

Your drilling problems could be caused by dull drill bits. It does not take much use for a drill bit to get dull enough to flex a little inside a wooden pen blank. A tiny amount of movement, and it's off center. Either get a drill doctor, or buy some extra drill bits.