Help me solve a problem with eliminating vapors while turning

[Greg O'Sherwood]

Here's the data:

1) CA vapors REALLY mess me up - after using CA for anything, I have bad symptoms for a week. But I want to continue using it if I can work this out.

2) I have a spare dust collector motor, but no filters that are compatible with 4" hose and a DC will eliminate the vapor particles with the dc in my turning shop, right? Or would some form of charcoal filter be 'good enough'? Remember, I am very sensitive to vapors.

3) I have no way to vent to the outdoors currently. I have an idea for using the laundry vent...but would need to mount the DC motor outside...maybe.

4) Crap - I forgot to add. I have a half face mask with vapor filters, but the CA is going into my eyes also. I don't have the spare funds to go to a full face mask right now, besides, the lingering vapors get to me even 4 days after using CA if I enter the shop area.
I really need to eliminate the vapor from the space.

All, I know I can just quit using CA. That is my final option. I'd rather find a method that corrects the problem, not just avoid it. When a bully steals your lunch money, do you stop eating lunch???? C'mon, woodworking attracts problem solving engineer-types, doesn't it? I want to solve the problem, not hide from it. There really aren't any filters that would work in this application????

Okay, that's the basics. Ask questions as you wish. Please help me come up with a solution.

Thanks in advance!

Gregory of Sherwood Forest

 

[rjwolfe3]

I use a portable dust collector and a mask and have never smelled the CA at all.

 

[texasfootball21]

Greg,

I'd try a face mask of some kind. If you don't want to pay for an expensive one try out some cheap masks, they may make a difference. I use a full mask that cost about $25 at Wal Mart and I now have no problem using CA. It used to bug me a lot before I started wearing the mask.

You could switch to an epoxy to glue your tubes, but if you are stuck on using a CA finish, you may have a hard time losing the CA.

Wish I could be of more help, someone else will chime in. Good luck.

 

[Greg O'Sherwood]

So just using a cloth bag on your dc (I'm assuming 5mil?) traps the vapors? Or just disperses them well enough?

 

[Greg O'Sherwood]

Greg,

I'd try a face mask of some kind. If you don't want to pay for an expensive one try out some cheap masks, they may make a difference. I use a full mask that cost about $25 at Wal Mart and I now have no problem using CA. It used to bug me a lot before I started wearing the mask.

You could switch to an epoxy to glue your tubes, but if you are stuck on using a CA finish, you may have a hard time losing the CA.

Wish I could be of more help, someone else will chime in. Good luck.

Thanks, I just edited my initial post to add that I have a good half face maskwith vapor filters. It's getting to me just as bad through my eyes. Don't want to invest in a full face mask right now, besides, the lingering vapors get to me even 4 days after using CA if I enter the shop area.
I really need to eliminate the vapor from the space.

 

[wdcav1952]

Gregory,

Forgive me, but why don't you give up using CA? Others have given up on cocobolo and other woods due to allergy problems.

There are other glues that work well for gluing in tubes, and a myriad of finishes that also work well.

Since your symptoms are severe, CA just isn't worth the risk.

 

[leehljp]

1. Get your DC hooked up. Place the hose just behind the blank that you are turning. With a face mask and a DC, most of the fumes will be pulled in.

2. Place a fan at the end of the lathe so that it blows fumes away also. Between the three (mask, DC and fan,) that should help for a while until you can afford a full face mask.

FYI, I too, have the same severe problems as you and use a set up basically as mentioned above. I can tell it when I try to do a "quick" finish without the face mask but with only the DC.

It also helps me to take a claritin before spending a few hours turning a pen.

 

[Pen Maker]

William, what was the common methods people used before the CA technique came about for finishing.

Greg, carefull using that dryer vent to exhaust CA or any other vapors! First time I tried it seemed like a good idea to me too. )

 

[Greg O'Sherwood]

Greg, carefull using that dryer vent to exhaust CA or any other vapors! First time I tried it seemed like a good idea to me too. )

The dryer vent is a spare one that I temporarily plugged. We moved the laundry room and the one available is the old vent. I wouldn't think it's a good idea to use the same vent line that any dryer is actively using...that would make for some bad smelling clothes...possibly worse.

All, I know I can just quit using CA. That is my final option. I'd rather find a method that corrects the problem, not just avoid it. When a bully steals your lunch money, do you stop eating lunch???? C'mon, woodworking attracts problem solving engineer-types, doesn't it? I want to solve the problem, not hide from it. There really aren't any filters that would work in this application????

 

[cajun skeeter]

Try safty goggels.

 

[TellicoTurning]

Greg,
This is a great hobby, but your health is more important than the hobby... I don't seem to have any respitory reaction to CA, It used to burn my eyes if I used a lot of it without good ventilation, but I am set up like Hank suggested so I don't seem to have any reaction now.
You may really be risking more than you know by trying to keep using CA when you react to it this badly... you may want to re-think alternative glues and finishes.

 

[rjwolfe3]

Greg,
Have you tried the low odor stuff? I believe that some use this with no ill effects.

 

[Greg O'Sherwood]

Greg,
Have you tried the low odor stuff? I believe that some use this with no ill effects.

Yes. Same result, it's just as bad, I just can't smell it coming.

 

[rjwolfe3]

Maybe shell out the money for a Triton(sp). I wish I could afford one right now. Man that would suck to be that allergic to CA.

 

[Russianwolf]

Switch to Lacquer and forget the CA. It's not worth your health.

You could get a chemical hood installed, but you are talking mega bucks. You could get a much improved full face respirator, but again, cost is pretty major for those.

Anything less, isn't solving the problem, just hiding around the corner from the bully. I'd rather push the bully in the trash can and make new friends.

 

[Woodlvr]

Mannie sells the odorless CA, if that would make a difference? I put a fan next to my lathe and blow it away and then my air cleaner seems to take it away. I am sorry that you are having difficultly, but don't give up trying to solve the problem we need all of the turners we can get.

 

[jkeithrussell]

Quit using CA, seriously.

 

[Greg O'Sherwood]

Some problem solvers you guys are. :wink:

Probably let the bully have your lunch money every day, didn't you?:biggrin:

I found an answer, I think. Special 'Charcoal and something' filter from a company online that I just traded a few emails with. They recommended a couple of filters with a box fan in a ply configuration. The design will not impede airflow and should run about $40.00.

 

[wdcav1952]

Lacquer, Enduro, Unaxol, Wipe on Poly,...........

As regards the Bully analogy another example might be more accurate. How many times should you stick your finger into fire before you figure out it might not be a good idea?

Forgive me if I seem blunt, but I am a touch protective of the one and a half lungs I have left.

 

[Randy_]

Thanks, I just edited my initial post to add that I have a good half face maskwith vapor filters. It's getting to me just as bad through my eyes. Don't want to invest in a full face mask right now, besides, the lingering vapors get to me even 4 days after using CA if I enter the shop area.
I really need to eliminate the vapor from the space.

Run out to your friendly Wal-Mart and pick up s set of those swim goggles like the racers use. They have a foam strip that seals up nice and tight around your eyes although this is not a solution that will work if you wear glasses.

 

[leehljp]

I want to solve the problem, not hide from it.

I like that attitude! :biggrin: Not just for finishes but anything with a problem!

 

[NewLondon88]

T When a bully steals your lunch money, do you stop eating lunch????

A better analogy would be
"Just because you go into anaphylactic shock from peanuts, does that mean
you stop eating peanut butter sandwiches for lunch? "

 

[Greg O'Sherwood]

Great, you guys work on improving the analogies. I'll work on finding a solution. Sorry you bug you.:wink:

 

[Pen Maker]

Lacquer, Enduro, Unaxol, Wipe on Poly,...........

Thank You Cav, you saved me a bunch of research with these keywords to search on! Much Obliged!

Greg,

All I can offer so far... I've turned on three different days so far. The first one went fine. Then the second one, I did something different. Still not sure what though. I went out and bought the face shield and the half mask from 3M. On the third try I outfitted in my safety gear and STILL got bit by that horse. Just not so bad. I think the vapors got in through my tear ducts ??? My next time out, I'm putting the lathe on a cart and rolling it out to the garage door. Hopefully it'll be a warm day. If that don't do it, after tax man is thorough with me I'll look into the dust collectors again for the prices charged I sure hope it does the trick.

 

[NewLondon88]

Great, you guys work on improving the analogies. I'll work on finding a solution. Sorry you bug you.:wink:

Not buggin me .. seems like you've got a lot of good answers.
The others did the heavy lifting, leaving me to make the wisecracks.

You're allergic to the fumes, so obviously you've got to keep the fumes
away from you, or stop using the CA. If all you have access to is a dryer
vent, you're probably not going to move enough air to keep you fume free.
The vent is pretty small and any ductwork would cut the efficiency of a fan
right away.. and the more duct, the more loss. If you put the lathe right
at the duct and got a high CFM fan drawing the air away from you,
you could be OK. But that fan would likely be expensive.
I'm glad I don't have that problem yet.

 

[Blind_Squirrel]

All, I know I can just quit using CA. That is my final option. I'd rather find a method that corrects the problem, not just avoid it. When a bully steals your lunch money, do you stop eating lunch???? C'mon, woodworking attracts problem solving engineer-types, doesn't it? I want to solve the problem, not hide from it. There really aren't any filters that would work in this application?

If the bully is going to do bodily harm to get your lunch money you take another route to the lunch room i.e. use other products.

Why are you so stuck on using CA (pun intended)?

 

[Greg O'Sherwood]

Nice pun! I never heard it before...

CA is easily my favorite and most requested finish. When I sell a pen, I include a lifetime guarantee on the finish (normal use disclaimer, etc). I keep records on who bought which pen and have created a system to automatically email them once a year to inquire on it. I want to be able to offer it.

This is now moot, however. I found a solution that I posted up higher in this thread. It involves using a 24"x24"x2" specialty charcoal filter in a box fan configuration. The filter cost $50 and I use a $8 box fan and a cheap prefilter to prevent the charcoal filter from getting clogged by other dusts.

Perfect.

 

[Russianwolf]

Nice pun! I never heard it before...

CA is easily my favorite and most requested finish. When I sell a pen, I include a lifetime guarantee on the finish (normal use disclaimer, etc). I keep records on who bought which pen and have created a system to automatically email them once a year to inquire on it. I want to be able to offer it.

This is now moot, however. I found a solution that I posted up higher in this thread. It involves using a 24"x24"x2" specialty charcoal filter in a box fan configuration. The filter cost $50 and I use a $8 box fan and a cheap prefilter to prevent the charcoal filter from getting clogged by other dusts.

Perfect.

let us know how long the filter lasts. The fumes will bond to the carbon, but the carbon can only hold so many bonds before they become ineffective.

 

[Tn-Steve]

<<Snip>>>
This is now moot, however. I found a solution that I posted up higher in this thread. It involves using a 24"x24"x2" specialty charcoal filter in a box fan configuration. The filter cost $50 and I use a $8 box fan and a cheap prefilter to prevent the charcoal filter from getting clogged by other dusts.
Perfect.

I'd like to hear a bit more about that... Is there a website that has the filters available?

Steve W.

 

[Greg O'Sherwood]

Steve,
yes, there is and I am testing a few filters now. They are all activated charcoal, some with additional ingredients. I am testing different thicknesses and gram-counts to determine which has the ideal airflow rate. A prefilter (HVAC type) is needed to prevent the Charcoal filter from clogging, so I have several combinations to test. Right now, it appears that a 300 gram 4" thick filter is working the best. It is reasonably priced at $50, and if gets me mask-free, I'll be thrilled.

I prefer testing myself since I am by far the most sensitive to this stuff of anyone I know of. I'm a 6'4 250lb ex-drill sergeant (I trained marines, too), but this stuff turns me into a sniffling, sneezing, coughing wussified wimp.

I'll let you know my results within a couple more weeks.

 

[jbpaul]

let us know how long the filter lasts. The fumes will bond to the carbon, but the carbon can only hold so many bonds before they become ineffective.

Very true.

Furthermore, when used too long, carbon filters will also begin to "dump" the very substances that they absorb. If you walk into the shop one day and smell vapors when you haven't used CA in a day or so, you have waited WAY, WAY too long to change out your filters. If you are gluing and finishing several pens a week, I think you will be surprised at how quickly you go through those $50 filters if you change them appropriately.

From someone whose job is a constant battle against volatile organic compounds (the "sting" in CA fumes, and what you are reacting to), VOC's are nasty compounds that have a cumulative effect on sensitivity. As sensitive as you already are, continuing to use CA merits reconsideration on your part.

Analogies lose their charm when you're on a ventilator.

 

[Greg O'Sherwood]

JB,
thanks for the extra info. I have received very specific instructions regarding the filters I am testing, and how to lengthen their lifespan. I'll be very careful and once testing is complete and I choose a user, I'll have a few delivered as backups.

The analogies are just that, words. I am well aware of the hazards, which is why I am going thru $$ and time to find a solution that works. I also will be happy to share my results in order to help others with the same reactions.

I am in turning as a hobby. I like it a LOT. It is very therapeutic to me. But it is just a hobby. I'm not going to risk my long-term health, but I'm not going to quit without a fight. That's just not me.

Cross your fingers for me, eh?

 

[arw01]

Could a Ozone generator help too?

I've heard Ozone likes to bond to other air particles. I wonder if one of those could help with the lingering smell issue in the shop?

I've noticed the burning in the eyes with CA, so I keep my head BACK from the lathe now and do the CA in short bursts.

Alan