Help me choose 3-5 component sets

[Travis Fry]

First, I need to say that I've never made a pen. I have turned some other stuff, but more importantly I know my way around a shop. I make relatively high end custom knives, so I'm no stranger to tools, precision handwork, marketing, etc. I say this at the outset only to say that no common style of pen scares me, and that I am pretty confident I can sell whatever I make. I have done my homework here and elsewhere and am ready to get moving.

I have made a few decisions already regarding my pen turning setup (TBC, etc), am prepared to buy the best tools I actually need and only cry once, and have a pretty clear idea of what market I want to target and certain things I want to avoid. Specifically, I like classic and elegant styles like Gents, Statesman, European, and not a few others, and I HATE ballpoints. I would rather make Other than that, I'm pretty open. I plan to turn both wood and acrylics. I would MUCH rather make $200 pens than $20 pens, and am prepared to use high end components and take my time to make this happen. I'm not thinking of going kitless any time soon, but might eventually.

So here is the question: Given the parameters I've outlined above, which styles should I focus on?

I ask this question for several reasons:

1) I know that most different common designs have different sizes of everything. I'd like to buy the right stuff, but not more than I need to. Compatibilty and crossover in tooling (bushings, etc) is what I'm after.

2) Popularity/saleablity: I know what I like, and I think I know what others would like, but I have little direct firsthand knowledge.

Any suggestions are welcome. Thanks in advance.

 

[Dale Lynch]

If you HATE ballpoints,why did you list the european as something you liked?

You are interested in sets that some of the same tooling can be used.Drill bits are the only thing I can think of that can crossover.The junior series use the same tubes:Jr.gent 2, Retro,Duke rollerball,Citizen(shorter lower tube same dia)Jr.Statesman,Venus,Jr.Emporer.I may be mistaken but I also believe the stainless steel Eagle and Optimus Desire use the same drill bits as well.

Dont discount ball points entirely,The Jr.Gent 2 ballpoint and the Duke ballboint are nice sets and they use the same tubes as the other jr. series.

 

[firewhatfire]

If you have the market for high end pens look at Silver Pen Parts

 

[Travis Fry]

If you HATE ballpoints,why did you list the european as something you liked?

Fair point. I dislike writing with ballpoints, but appreciate the styling of the European. I also recognize that the market likely requires a selection of ballpoints. Perhaps HATE is too strong a word. :wink:

Thanks for the replies so far.

 

[BSea]

Look at the Eagle from Lazerlinez. It's solid stailness steel & american made.

 

[Dan Masshardt]

I think you're getting ahead of yourself. You want to market to high end but you've never made a pen? It's gonna take a little while to hone your skills. I wouldn't try to put a $30 component set on your first pen.

If you really like rollerballs, start out with jr gents / atrax. Buy a bunch of extra tubes and get used to getting the shapes you like, getting your technique down and your finishing (really good takes practice. Put a bunch of pens on chrome jr gent 2s or atrax. Once you're really happy with the pens, start putting the same ones on jr statesmans, retros, tritons, rhodium jr gents, jr majestics etc.

As far as ballpoints, buy a couple of easy flow 9000 cartridges and then give us your opinion about ballpoints. They are so dang close to rollerball, IMO.

 

[Travis Fry]

If you really like rollerballs, start out with jr gents / atrax. Buy a bunch of extra tubes and get used to getting the shapes you like, getting your technique down and your finishing (really good takes practice. Put a bunch of pens on chrome jr gent 2s or atrax. Once you're really happy with the pens, start putting the same ones on jr statesmans, retros, tritons, rhodium jr gents, jr majestics etc.

As far as ballpoints, buy a couple of easy flow 9000 cartridges and then give us your opinion about ballpoints. They are so dang close to rollerball, IMO.

This is why I'm asking! Thanks for the feedback about ballpoints -- I'm not into this enough to know all the ins and outs. RE: getting ahead, maybe. I don't have any illusions that I'll become the next master overnight. I'm prepared to do the necessary practice, and aware enough of my abilities to have a good idea what that will take. At this point I'm more PLANNING ahead than getting ahead of myself.

Thanks for the candor!

 

[BSea]

I think you're getting ahead of yourself. You want to market to high end but you've never made a pen?

It's gonna take a little while to hone your skills. I wouldn't try to put a $30 component set on your first pen.

If you really like rollerballs, start out with jr gents / atrax. But a bunch of extra tubes and get used to getting the shapes you like, getting your technique down and your finishing (really good takes practice. Put a bunch of pens on chrome jr gent 2a or atrax.

Once you're really happy with the pens, start butting the same ones on jr statesmans, retros, tritons, rhodium jr gents, jr majestics etc.

Normally, I'd agree, but looking at the finish on his knives, I'm pretty sure he can handle a pen. I think he understands that a few thousandths will make a difference in how the pen feels where the parts meet the blank. I think the same would be true for a knife handle.

There is a turner here who started out doing kitless pens (watch_art). I think he's done less than 10 kit pens, and easily over 300 kitless.

It's not the course most take, but I see no reason someone has to start out in lower end pens. Besides, most of the kits he's looking at can be disassembled, and used on a brand new pen should he ruin a blank or two. That happens to the best turners out there.

 

[Dan Masshardt]

Normally, I'd agree, but looking at the finish on his knives, I'm pretty sure he can handle a pen. I think he understands that a few thousandths will make a difference in how the pen feels where the parts meet the blank. I think the same would be true for a knife handle. There is a turner here who started out doing kitless pens (watch_art). I think he's done less than 10 kit pens, and easily over 300 kitless. It's not the course most take, but I see no reason someone has to start out in lower end pens. Besides, most of the kits he's looking at can be disassembled, and used on a brand new pen should he ruin a blank or two. That happens to the best turners out there.

Didn't see the knife thread. I'll have to check it out.

In reality, turning a jr gent is no harder than turning a slimline.

I've never practiced really. Lots if guys say turn junk wood to practice. I never cared to do that. I too bought my first kits thinking about how much I could sell the pens for - so I appreciate that. Those didn't actually turn out quite as well as I hoped but I was turning them to try to sell.

 

[Dan Masshardt]

To more directly answer the question:

1. Jr series family - jr gent statesman retro majestic etc. Atrax...

2. Zen.

3. Desire or eagle from lazerlinez

4. If you really want a big pen, majestic, statesman.

 

[ed4copies]

You say you are prepared to sell to high end customers.

Where? Internet, shows, jewelry stores? The clientele at a pen show is very different from the internet: either can buy a high end pen, but each will look for different elements.

So, to decide what to make---start by deciding what your "average customer" will value.

 

[BSea]

You say you are prepared to sell to high end customers.

Where? Internet, shows, jewelry stores? The clientele at a pen show is very different from the internet: either can buy a high end pen, but each will look for different elements.

So, to decide what to make---start by deciding what your "average customer" will value.

In his "Introduction", he said he's been making Knives for 6 years, and in this one he says he makes relatively high end knives. So I doubt he's been doing this for 6 years without some idea of his knife market. And I can certainly see a matching knife & pen combo.

 

[ed4copies]

I have heard of knife shows, and I know people do purchase high end knives.

To ME, there is no connection between a knife collection and a pen !

Edit in: As I gave this more thought, in 15 years of art and craft shows, I don't RECALL ever seeing a "collector knife" vendor. Yet I saw many "collector pen" vendors. I did see a guy selling cheap pocket knives at the Washington DC Pen show, along with cheap old pens that were suitable for parts. So, in my experience the connection between "collector level" knives and pens is still very vague---perhaps I will learn something here.

 

[Smitty37]

If you HATE ballpoints,why did you list the european as something you liked?

Fair point. I dislike writing with ballpoints, but appreciate the styling of the European. I also recognize that the market likely requires a selection of ballpoints. Perhaps HATE is too strong a word. :wink:

Thanks for the replies so far.

Try ballpoints with Schmidt EasyFlow 9000 refills and you mioght change your mind about them.

 

[Smitty37]

I have heard of knife shows, and I know people do purchase high end knives.

To ME, there is no connection between a knife collection and a pen !

Edit in: As I gave this more thought, in 15 years of art and craft shows, I don't RECALL ever seeing a "collector knife" vendor. Yet I saw many "collector pen" vendors. I did see a guy selling cheap pocket knives at the Washington DC Pen show, along with cheap old pens that were suitable for parts. So, in my experience the connection between "collector level" knives and pens is still very vague---perhaps I will learn something here.

Ed I don't know anything about the show end but I can assure you there are a lot of collector knives out there and some fairly expensive everyday pocket knives. I get a couple of magazines where they often have ads for collector knives....Sometimes there are even series of several different styles with the same astetics. And even my Bear everyday pocket knife has wood slabs and cost about $40.00 so one could easily be selling pretty high priced stuff.

 

[BSea]

I also know next to nothing about the show end. And while a matching knife may not be common, it isn't unique.
Forge De Laguiole Montblanc Knife - The Montblanc Forum - The Fountain Pen Network

 

[Smitty37]

I also know next to nothing about the show end. And while a matching knife may not be common, it isn't unique.
Forge De Laguiole Montblanc Knife - The Montblanc Forum - The Fountain Pen Network

In the August NRA Freedom Magazine they offer a membership renewal premium that includes a bullet pen and a sheath knife combo. Most NRA premiums are pretty decent items.

 

[panamag8or]

I also know next to nothing about the show end. And while a matching knife may not be common, it isn't unique.
Forge De Laguiole Montblanc Knife - The Montblanc Forum - The Fountain Pen Network

In the August NRA Freedom Magazine they offer a membership renewal premium that includes a bullet pen and a sheath knife combo. Most NRA premiums are pretty decent items.

Wow, I wonder who got that gig.

 

[southernclay]

Travis, first off nice knives, my brother started making knives last year, he's progressing pretty well. I've learned enough from him to know quality. Yours are.

There are some serious knife collectors as you know. Are they the same guys that will buy a $100-150 rollerball? $250? $1,000? Maybe. They are paying more than $100-$150 on knives for sure. Much of the advice as far as kits/components is the same I'd give. I think the same crowd that likes your knifes will like the US made, solid stainless Lazerlinez pens. (Don't know the number for the stainless though, you knife guys get picky about that haha) When the others are plated its hard to beat solid material for that crowd. Not knocking the plated ones, I like them as well but thinking about a pairing for what you are doing that's the best in my opinion.

And as has been mentioned try the easyFlow 9000, it's an amazing writing ink cartridge. I love rollerballs but for carrying around I use a ballpoint with this refill and love it.

 

[Smitty37]

I went and looked at knife prices for Bear, Buck and Ka=Bar and had no difficulty at at all finding pretty ordinary looking knives ranging as high as $350 with many over $100 and these were not knives with special tooling designs on the blades with gold inlay such as I have seen.....and as I said the pocket knife that I carry every day was a $40.00 Bear (Btw it stands abuse well)and it wasn't the most expensive one in the display case.

 

[Travis Fry]

Thanks for the feedback guys. You're right about knife customers. A lot of guys will shell out $400 for a knife, and wouldn't think twice about $200 for a pen. It's the same impluse, I think. Folks want something nicer than average and better quality, even when the quality is only incrementally better. I expect that my knife crowd will keep me busy with pens too, but that still needs to be proven.

Hadn't thought about those folks preferring stainless. They just might though (and it's probably 416 or 410, which machine pretty easily).

 

[ed4copies]

Thanks for the feedback guys. You're right about knife customers. A lot of guys will shell out $400 for a knife, and wouldn't think twice about $200 for a pen. It's the same impluse, I think. Folks want something nicer than average and better quality, even when the quality is only incrementally better. I expect that my knife crowd will keep me busy with pens too, but that still needs to be proven.

Hadn't thought about those folks preferring stainless. They just might though (and it's probably 416 or 410, which machine pretty easily).

With that in mind, you should be looking for components that are mid-range. The Jr. Gent II or Atrax or Baron or Sedona or Triton would all be comfortable to retail between 200 and 300.

I wouldn't recommend a high end (Emperor, Imperial genre), since those should sell closer to $500.

 

[Fay Prozora]

I would make a few slim line pens just for practice and then move up to some thing else and make a few of those and with the acrylics, those are different than the wooden ones and they are pretty. Be careful about getting any acrylics that have bubbles. I just had an experience with the bubbles in one pen I made and I was able to save it but it took 3 or 4 days to make that pen. I've made a total of 7 pens and I'm still not perfect.. I just bought a couple of the soft grip pen kits and some bushings for that kit. So it'll be fun to try this one out... Good luck. I would no way pay more than $5.00 for a pen, but then I'm a poor "B". $200.00 is too much for a person who has nothing to live on but their SSA checks and those are not that much... Fay

 

[SteveG]

One area you might want to study and become familiar with is vintage pen materials. This area provides much to "Talk Story" with the (prospective) customer about, and does much to push your pen creations into the higher price brackets. Getting more $ per pen relies on several factors, and assuming a basic quality product, the salesman is the key ingredient. Beyond that, the more the competent salesman has to work with, the better he will do. You likely are well aware that very, very few pen will sell themselves. Above all, have fun in your new endeavor. Pen turning and pen making are both grand reservoirs of FUN! Go get some.

 

[Travis Fry]

One area you might want to study and become familiar with is vintage pen materials... Above all, have fun in your new endeavor. Pen turning and pen making are both grand reservoirs of FUN! Go get some.

I have occasionally made knives like this. Once I made a brass guard out of a piece of an old milking machine, and have made knives for friends out of their great-grandfather's files. And I LOVE to get wood from trees with a story.

Can you recommend some resources about these vintage materials you speak of? I have access to mammoth and elephant ivory, and would love to get some bakelite, but I assume there's a lot more out there.

Thanks for all of the feedback so far. It has been very helpful. In some ways y'all have confirmed my instincts re: styles, but there is so much information out there that I'm not aware of. I am likely just scratching the surface, and I appreciate the guidance.