Help with kit adjustment

[AKPenTurner]

So... I have an order for two pens. She wanted just regular pens, one click and one twist. So I was aiming for a slimline style pen.

Now she's purchasing these for someone who will only use a specific refill, and when I got the refill in my hands, it's the same size as the Schmidt rollerballs in the Gentlemens/Panache etc... style of pens.

I've been brainstorming, but haven't come up with a quick way to modify a slimline to fit the refill. The Schmidts are the same thickness as a Parker, but are 1/2 an inch longer, and the thick portion of the refill is 3/4 of an inch longer.

They look like this: (Parker)

And this: (Schmidt)

These need done before Christmas, so I don't have a lot of time to goof around. Any suggestions?

 

[NotURMailman]

I would think you could lengthen the lower barrel 1/2" and use a shorter spring ans be OK. But, you'd have to try it to find out...

 

[azamiryou]

I think you'll need to start with a Parker-style kit. There are lots to choose from. The Parker refill will just fit, that's the right one for those kits.

To get the Schmidt into a twist or click, start with a Parker-style pen. In these types of pens, the mechanism pushes against the back of the refill, and a spring in the nose of the pen pushes back against the refill, keeping it tight against the transmission. So you'll have to make sure the refill fits through the nose cone (drill out if necessary), find or make a spring that fits the refill and braces properly against the inside of the nose cone, and make the body the correct length so that the refill extends and retracts with the transmission.

 

[AKPenTurner]

Thanks for the suggestions. I've been looking at my pens a little more. Apparently, the Schmidt is just a tad thicker than a Parker, because I have a finished Click pen from CSUSA that uses Parker refills, and the Schmidt won't go through the center band that screws the upper barrel on. I don't think the metal is thick enough to drill the band out enough, it's really thin...

So I guess I need to find a kit with a bigger hole, or a screw-on nib so I could eliminate the center band. Suggestions?

 

[AKPenTurner]

I see PSI makes a similar kit.

Does anyone know if a Schmidt would fit into one of these if the barrels were extended a half inch?

 

[Randy Simmons]

I see PSI makes a similar kit.

Does anyone know if a Schmidt would fit into one of these if the barrels were extended a half inch?

Probably not. The schmidt rollerball has a very different shape, and is not designed for click pens as the parker is (note the gear shape on the top of a parker) also, the parker has a much longer and thinner front section, where the schmidt is a little more stubby.

I would avoid modifying the refills as well, as you will want your customer to be able to refill their pen independent of you.

I'll see if I can find a suggestion for you. This is a toughie.

Best of luck,

Randy

 

[Randy Simmons]

If she wants a "twist" pen, and that really is all she is asking for, you could go with an Aero or a Sierra style. Did she say you HAD to have one of each refill? Both of those take a parker, so you could use the slimline pro and another one of those twist pens and be on your way.

 

[Mr Vic]

Correct me if I err...Every roller ball pen I've seen is capped. I understand trhe rason for this is sop they don't dry out and clog just like a fountain pen does. Puting in a twist pen will leave the tip exposed and result in it's drying out.

 

[azamiryou]

According to on-line info about the Foray refills, they "boast a 1-year cap-off time without drying!"

 

[AKPenTurner]

Probably not. The schmidt rollerball has a very different shape, and is not designed for click pens as the parker is (note the gear shape on the top of a parker) also, the parker has a much longer and thinner front section, where the schmidt is a little more stubby.

Is the gear really necessary? I don't see why a Schmidt wouldn't work in the transmission of a Parker click, I guess I assumed the gear was for twist pens.

I would avoid modifying the refills as well, as you will want your customer to be able to refill their pen independent of you.

Yes, the refill certainly shouldn't be modified.

If she wants a "twist" pen, and that really is all she is asking for, you could go with an Aero or a Sierra style. Did she say you HAD to have one of each refill? Both of those take a parker, so you could use the slimline pro and another one of those twist pens and be on your way.

I'm designing these pens for the Schmidt style refill. Do you think a schmidt would fit in a lengthened aero kit? I don't have any aeros or sierras finished in stock right now, but I do have a couple being made, so I can check those out.

If all else fails, I may simply be able to persuade her to go with a standard rollerball kit. The only problem is that most people in pursuit of a "regular" pen don't like the weight or design...

 

[azamiryou]

I believe the "gear" on the back of the Parker is used by some click mechanisms to "advance" the inside of the mechanism (which enables the click-out click-in pattern). Other click mechanisms have this "gear" built inside the mechanism, and a plain flat piston that buts against the back of the refill. If you use one of these, it doesn't matter whether the refill has the "gear" on it.

 

[Randy Simmons]

I second what Vic said. A rollerball refill uses liquid ink, which will dry if left open to the air.

The gear on top of the parker, and on any click pen refill for that matter, allows the refill to not only retract and advance, but also to rotate, so that the ball point wears evenly.

You can buy a 23/64 brass tube in 10" segments, I believe, and I know for a fact that you can with 27/64 (sierra size) tubes. A schmidt rollerball 888 or 5888 is something like 105 mm long, just FYI.

I really haven't got a clue as to how to modify the twist mechanism to take a rollerball. The transmissions work by screwing in the refill, and it really would be hard to work around that. I don't want to sound pessimistic, but you have me stumped.

You could make her a regular rollerball pen. I would recommend to her that it be non-posting. They tend to have a better balance.

 

[AKPenTurner]

I believe the "gear" on the back of the Parker is used by some click mechanisms to "advance" the inside of the mechanism (which enables the click-out click-in pattern). Other click mechanisms have this "gear" built inside the mechanism, and a plain flat piston that buts against the back of the refill. If you use one of these, it doesn't matter whether the refill has the "gear" on it.

The gear on top of the parker, and on any click pen refill for that matter, allows the refill to not only retract and advance, but also to rotate, so that the ball point wears evenly.

I was just discovering the gears... I had it backwards. The gear usually doesn't matter on twist parker pens. It's quite important on clicks...

Frustrating. Nothing wrong with rollerballs, I suppose...

 

[gbpens]

Can you get by with a gel refill? If so, the Parker gel writes a heavy line like a roller ball.

 

[AKPenTurner]

As I understand, it's a surprise present for someone who "only" uses this specific refill. Under proper circumstances, I think I could persuade him to go with a different refill, but with someone purchasing a surprise gift, it doesn't work that way.

I think I'll make a couple rollerball pens, and if I can't come up with anything else by the time they're done, I'll go with that.

 

[ed4copies]

If that is the refill the person likes, (s)he is used to a capped pen.

So, make the rollerball design of your choice and you are "good to go"!

 

[sbell111]

I agree with Ed.

To the question of whether a rollerball cartridge can be used in a 'parker' transmission, I doubt that it can. Often enough, the parker-type refills barely have clearance in these transmissions. If I am not mistaken, the rollerball refills are somewhat thicker then the parker refills at the back end. If this is true, then extending the tube will not make them work.

 

[AKPenTurner]

If that is the refill the person likes, (s)he is used to a capped pen.

So, make the rollerball design of your choice and you are "good to go"!

I was thinking this is probably the correct conclusion. Thanks for the help, everyone!