Help, Christmas emergency

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fergusrb

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Hi, I mostly lurk, but now I have a Christmas emergency. I made a Rockler flat top pen for my wife and everything worked ok and she really liked it. She asked if I could make more and I said sure I am an expert now:) Now I think God is putting me in my place. The second pen same type is for a Christmas present. I chose buckeye burl and it really turned out nice. Only problem is the point will not turn in or out. If I get it out and turn it counter clockwise the pen unscrews. Well yesterday I did an other maple burl and it is sitting on the mandrel still. Now I am really gun shy about putting it together. This is were I need help. With this kit the tube sits outside the blank about 1/4" and is for the center band. I says to put it on and if loose glue with a little Ca. I pressed mine on. I can't remember how the first pen went. It says you can make adjustments by sanding the tube, but if it is pressed on you can't get it off to adjust. The other thing is you screw the finial on to the bushing and place it on top of the completed pen and press it in. When I did it and felt it stop there was a small gap. I unscrewed the pen top and useing just the top pressed it in completely. The same thing happened on the first pen and it worked.
I don't know if my problem is with the center band or pressing in the top. One last thing, on doing the next pen I used a drill motor to spin the brass tubes to clean them with and this time I distored one.
I went to Rocklers and got replacement tubes. Now I am wondering if the failed pen had distored tubes. It looks good but the point will not retracked. I can use it on my desk, but it would suck to give to some one. Now I am down to the wire with one day left. Saturday we travel to my daughters. If this works it is on to the pencil. The directions for that were not as clear as the pen so I am worried. I am hoping some one could give me some guideance or more confidance. The pen is a Rockler 61246 and the pencil is 61238. Sorry for the long post. Hope everyone has a Merry Christmas.

The gun shy pen maker.
Bruce
 
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I'm guessing since I never used Rockler kits.

The transmission works when the top is removed but the top barrel slips when installed on the pen.

IF this is the case, melt a little solder on the brass tube that is exposed on the lower barrel. Make sure you do not fuse the transmission to the brass tube, otherwise you will be in worse trouble than you are now. The idea is to make the lower tube just a little fatter.

Good Luck, I hope this works
 

Pen Man

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What kind of refill is it Parker?
If so take refill out take spring off then put pen in the end where the tip comes out if it is not easy to put in then take small drill bit by hand and put in that end and turn a little then try it.
 

vick

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Gilbert, AZ, USA.
if I am understanding this right.
Try taking off the top and manually rotateing the transmission. If this works then it is not catching in the tube. In the past when I have had that problem I spread a little ca near the top of the transmission let it dry then reassembled. This idea being to "fatten" then top of the transmission.

If the tranny with not rotate by hand with the cap off you probably have a bad transmission and should contact your manufacturer.
 

fergusrb

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I got the second one together and could not turn it. Like I said before the instructions have you press the finial and bushing into the top of the completed pen. It is suppose to seat the insides. This time I could not turn the pen at all and the finial and bushing were not seated. After dinking around with it (no I didn't use channel locks) I got the pen apart.(unscrewed and it was a job). Finished pressing in the finial just to the top and put it back together. The point turned in and out. Yea hoooo. Looking in the top of the pen from the center band, the good pen the plastic piece was farther from the center band. Since it is working I am not going to screw with it. Only thing I can see is the center band on the top just dosn't cover the wood on the bottom, but since it is gold on the inside you can't notice it. Of course I see it right away. Some one told me on the slim line pens you press the transmission??? into the body then turn it check how far out the point goes then press some more till it is right. I wonder if I should do the same thing. That will be for pen number 4.
My wife the sensitive woman she is said "now you can start on the pencil and you better hurry as we are leaveing tomorrow" Looking at the instruction it said flat top parker style pen. Well back to the shop to start on the pencil. I am finding the turning is the easiest part. I guess pens are not as easy as some people think. Thanks again. I appreciate the responces.

Bruce
 
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Originally posted by vick
<br /> This idea being to "fatten" then top of the transmission.

Mike is right, I mispoke. You need to fatten the transmisson not the tube.

The wife and I have been baking cinnamon buns all day. All I can say is we now have 5 dozen left from the 6 dozen we baked. To much cinnamon buns slows the thinking down.
 

Mikey

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Also check to see ifthe pen is binding where the two halves come together, ie, the wood OD on the lower half may be too large and not allowing the top half to seat all the way. This happened to a nice pen I made and I just had to take a razor blade and skim away just a touch to get the clearance.
 

Rudy Vey

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Seems like this is a Berea Flattop American pen (Rockler sells Berea pen kits). The problem with not retracting of the tip or not even moving the refill has mainly to do with two things: first there might be some glue residue inside the brass tube secondly the centerband can be slightly tilted and out of line. The first case is the most common one. Larry from Berea showed me years ago how to avoid this and how to fix it. The second case is a problem and has to do with a not square blank to tube, when the centerband is pressed on (to avoid this is easy, do not turn the short version of the top barrel, but make the blank as long as the tube and square off when you done turning and finishing). For the first case before assembly check with a "L" drill bit if the tube is clean inside (if not the bit will clean it out). If so, a transmission should fall through the brass tube and should not bind later. When I assmble an AM FT pen (and I made about 400+ in the past years) I do not follow the instruction!! I put a refill in the lower barrel and screw the transmission on, I check if the refill retracts in and out both ways (since this is a double-twist mechanism) in that way that I turn the upper part of the tranny. Then I press the finial bushing (the little brass thingy) into the top of the upper barrel, before I have checked the the transmission will not bind inside the tube. Now comes the smart part, and this is for the alignment of the grain, I carefully align the grain and then press the top onto the lower part of the pen using a pen press. This leads to perfect aligned grain when the refill is in "neutral", i.e. is retracted. With the given instruction way of assembly this is not possible.

Another thing is to make always sure that the wood is not proud of the transmission coupler (this is the screw part of the lower barrel). Be carefull if you finish with build-up finishes like CA or lacquer, this will easy built up to too much thickness (happened to me).

The easy fix for the binding is to press out the transmission with the attached brass thingy through the top of the pen (use a piece of a 7 mm mandrel, an arbor press and a piece of wood with a "O" or 8 mm hole in it). Place the 7mm mandrel piece inside to the transmission, put the end of the barrel onto the hole in the wood and carefully press the whole transmission/brass bushing assembly out. Clean out the inside of the tube and assemble as above described. You can re-use the brass bushing (and sometimes also the tranny, but I always use a fresh one).
 

fergusrb

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Thanks Rudy, I think your explanation is closer to what is happening. I popped in while the glue is drying for the tubes for the pencil. I will have to take more time to digest your explanation. Maybe send you an e-mail. I saw your album with AM ft pens. Those look like the little buggers that are giveing me all the trouble. I will have to see what the pencil has in store for me when I try to put it together.
Thanks to everyone for their info.

Bruce
 

DCBluesman

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If this is the same as the American Flat Top Double Twist, here's another suggestion from www.arizonasilhouette.com .
Flat Top American Pens

Some penmakers experience a 'common' problem with the Berea Flat Top double twist pens that is easily corrected. The main problem involves the tightness of the transmission. Here is an informational submittal from one of my customers:


When pressing the center band on the top tube: it compresses the diameter of the tube ever so slightly. This tends to bind the brass portion of the transmission so that it cannot turn freely. To remedy this problem, I did 2 things: 1. run the pen mill through the top tube after the center band is pressed on to open it up again, make sure that there are no small brass shards left on the inside. 2. Sand the brass portion of the transmission so that there is a minute space between the brass tube and the transmission, this all needs to be checked before the transmission is pressed to the brass clip bushing. Berea did such a good job in the design that the tolerances are very small.
Aloha, Bennett
 

fergusrb

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Thanks to everyone, I am learning more as I do them. Here is the latest thing. Yesterday I started on the pencil, about 9:00Pm I get the blanks done. I did the BLO and Ca finish, it really looks nice. I will let everything set up over night and in the morning put it together and the wife can wrap it. I get up at 5:00Am as the wife wants to be on the road by 9:00Am. I very carfully follow the directions. The center band goes on with the push of my thumb, I run the barrel trimmer down the inside and that is ok. There is a small tube that has the finial bushing pressed in that slides in from the top. I make sure it slides in from the center band end and the normal end. Everything looks good so I put it in. I am almost done and really happy, this may work yet. I slide the pen transmission into the lower half and all that is left is to screw on the tip. Wait it will not screw on. It will not fit in the black tip. I pulled out the transmition and try to screw it on, no threads. Crap it is the wrong one in the package. Almost looks like it belongs to the pen kit. Not to worry I have another kit, I will steal the one out of it.
Son of a @#$%^%$#*(&%, it is the same way. Well the wife wanted to leave by 9:00Am to head for Hemet where my daughter lives. Luckly Rocklers opens at 9:00Am. Hopefully they will have the right nib and I can be on my way. First I better put the pen in the gift box and give it to my wife. If I left it at home I would really be pissed. This experiance with pen building is about to turn me off from doing pens. Oh, the stress!!!! :). I work at a nuc. plant in California and we will be going into an outage on the 4th of Jan. So it has been stressfull trying to get ready. So I have some time off before and instead of relaxing I am doing pens. I saw woodcraft has a removal kit. It has a 7mm and 10mm version. Not sure if the 10mm is the one I need for these flat top pens. I don't know if I really need the smaller to fit inside or it is the mandrell size. Thanks again and will see everyone after Christmas.

Bruce
 

wudwrkr

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Nov 19, 2005
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Newark, CA, USA.
Bruce,
I'm not familiar with the flat tops, but very familiar with pen disassembley. [:I] I use the transfer punch kit from Harbor Freight and it works great. I've got the 7mm kit from woodcraft, but with the transfer punch kit, you can do just about any pen. Here's what it looks like: http://tinyurl.com/b99gc. It was just on sale for $5.99.

Good luck and have a very Merry Christmas!!
 

fergusrb

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Orange, Calif., USA.
SUCCESS!!!! I finally have the pen and pencil set done and my son really liked it. I had used Maple burl and it came out great. You guys are not going to believe the last chapter in Bruce's Pen story. In the last chapter we left me swearing a blue streak at 5:00Am because the nib did not fit the end of the pencil and the other unopen pencil kit had the same end. I think they were for the pen kit. Well I was at Rockler's just as they opended and when I got in I dumped my parts on the counter asking for help. Yup, it looks like it dosn't fit. Not thinking the pencil would have a .7mm opening and the pen is much larger. They went and got another kit, sure enough it was the same way. The other guy at the counter said that it looks like they got a bad batch with their order. My hart sunk. So close to being finished and Christmas tomorrow. Well the guy came back with 6 or seven kits he had pulled from the rack, as he was looking at them he said I think I found one. Looking at the pack you could see the small opening for the pencil lead. He cut it open and we screwed the tip on. I put the pencil together and gave it a twist and the lead popped up. That was good as I had bought lead and had left it at home. The guys were great, I got my pencil done and I got credit for the un opened pencil kit. I was a happy camper on the trip to my daughters and I was glad that they found and removed the bad kits so other people didn't run into what I did.

Lesson's learned:
Check the pen kit of the ovious parts. Big differance between a pen nib and a pencil nib.
Cut the top blank at 13/16". I think that leaves 3/16 for the center band.
Check the tube for Ca residue or brass burs on the inside.
Run the pen mill drill through both ends and make sure there is clearance.
Sand the transmission slightly and make sure it slides in and out of the pen barrel.
Press the finial and bushing on first. Then align the top and bottom and press together.

I just want to say thanks again for the help and support, I appreciate it. When everything you seem to do turn to crap around you the support bolsters your feelings. I was ready to quit doing this pen but your support and suggestions have got me wanting to do another with all these suggestion and to see if I can get one to go together with no problems. At present time my oldest boy wanted to know were his pen was, still working on it was the answer but the rub is he was the one that gave me the bushings and mandrel last Christmas. His birthday is on the 27th of December. I guess I will have to wait till Rockler's gets a new shipment of kits. As the saying goes, happy new years to all and to all a good night.

Bruce
 

lkorn

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Virginia Beach, VA, USA.
Bruce, I just read through you trials and can fully empathize. When time is short, learning a new skill can be stressful. The most important lesson here is that "Turning" is only a small part of pen making, even when considering we are assembling "kits". On the other hand, the talent here and willingness to share and help is unequalled. As an aside, while I won't agrue that Rockler gave you exemplary service and assistance, if you start making larger quantities of pens, you can buy the kits much more economically from Berea Hardwoods, Craft Supplies USA, Arizona Sihlouette, and Penn State Industries. These guys are the big manufacturers, Rockler is a reseller of Berea's with a rather large markup.
Welcome to penturning.
 
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