Having issues drilling blanks

[medemt]

I am very new to turning pens and I am having a bit of trouble getting the hole drilled straight through the blanks. I figured this would be a no brainer since I went out and bought all the right equipment. Let me tell you what I am doing and if somone has a suggestion or a better way to be consistent, I am very much open.

First off I am using a drill press for the drilling. I know the bit is square with the table as I have checked it. I was drilling Bolivian Redwood with a 7 mm point bit. I put the blank inside a centering vise that I bought from CSUSA. The blanks are for slimline pens. I was drilling two different lengths. One short and one a bit over 1/4" longer. (for the slimline variation without centerband)

When I begin to drill, the hole is centered on the blank (on top). On the shorter ones, the hole on the outbound (bottom) is not far off from the center but does show some difference. On the longer ones the hole can be pretty far off.

One thing to note is that I did eight sets of blanks and each set (and half of each set) were different in how they looked. In other words, there was no consistency in the position where the hole exited in relation to center.

The blanks appear to be straight up and down when they are placed in the vise.

I noticed two things that I would suggest could be the problem:

1. The drill bit does not seem to be as rigid as I would think (it was part of a CSUSA starter kit). I can easily "bend" it side to side with not a lot of force. Could the bit be bending under the pressure of the press pushing into the wood? I tried varying the speed that I was pressing the bit in, but it did not seem to correct the issue.

2. The second thing I noticed is that the centering vise seems to bend at the support rods and or the gears. It is hard to see if this is happening when drilling but I can see it when done by hand.

In any event, this is obviously a problem and I need to come up with a fix or a different way to drill blanks. Any comments, suggestions, etc. would be appreciated. I know there are many on this forum that have an answer and I am willing to learn from that wisdom.

Thanks in advance,
Dan

 

[ed4copies]

Are you drilling diamondwood?
VERY hard wood?

Is the bit a bradpoint?

 

[1080Wayne]

Both of your suggestions may be contributing to the problem . Make sure the chips are coming freely out of the hole while drilling . You may have to raise the drill bit several times to ensure this . Some woods are worse than others for chip removal . Also some pieces of wood will have grain which the drill bit will follow . Other pieces have varying hardness , due to spalting , which will also steer the bit .

 

[PaulDoug]

I gave up on the drill press and do all my blank drilling on the lathe. I have much better luck. Make sure you do small drills at a time, backing out the drill to clear the hole. Some woods this is only about 1/4 " at a time. I use Brad point bits 98'% of the time.

 

[medemt]

Ed,

It is not Diamondwood. When I bought the blanks at Rockler it said Bolivian Redwood. Medium dark wood with black grain. The drill bit is a point bit - the type with the very pointed tip versus the blunt type

Dan

 

[fernhills]

I use the DP for a array of things but not pen blank drilling. I use the lathe and sometimes you have to step up to the final Di. You want sq. holes use lathe. Carl

 

[PenMan1]

First check that the bit is chucked EXACTLY between the 3 DP jaws. This is the most frequent cause of your problem. If it is chucked correctly, remove the bit and roll it across a flat and level surface (table saw bed, level counter top, etc). If the bit wobbles and rolls to one side or the other, it is bent or bowed. replace bent bits as they are a continued sorce of agony. If the bit is ok, rechuck it making certain to center it in the jaws. Move the DP table out of the way, turn the DP on to the slowest speed and observe the bit by looking up at the bit tip. Does it "run true"? If so the problem is with the vise set up. If the bit does "run true", the your DP table, drilling vice (or even your floor not being level) is causing the problem.

If the bit does not run true, the problem is with the DP (most likely the MT is dirty). Follow the DP mfg's instructions for removing the taper. Remove and clean the MT. Re-install the chuck into the DP. Did that fix the problem? If so, re-square the DP table and drill press vixe and try some holes on scarp wood. If not re-square your DP table, pen vise set up.

You can check the pen vise set up by putting a small combination square behind the center of the jaws and moving the quill so that the drill bit touches the bottom of the pen vise. Does the square touch the bit at the top, center and botton of the pen vise? If it does not, locate the problem and fix it.

Hope this helps.

 

[PenMan1]

One other thing that beginners do is to force the bit into the hole causing the bit to bow. Make 20 "passes" if necessary without putting extreme pressure on the bit. drill 1/4 inch, pull the quill up, clean the bit, and repeat as many times as necessary to complete the hole.

Let the bit "cut" without applying pressure.

 

[Daniel]

Okay, First of all your bit may be square to the table, but that does not mean it remains that way. It can and will flex. you are asking the bit to do go way beyond what it was intended to do by asking it to drill even 2 inches in to the end grain of wood. Not really a "No Brainer" The bit will tend to try and follow the grain of the wood. this would most likely be the reason that you see it being off in different directions. the best way to still get well matching grain at the center band is to start your holes in ech half at the center band location.

Also the drill bit relay needs to be square to the blank not the table. and since the blank is being held by the vice, this brings up the question. is your bit square to the vice and is that staying that way. all of these issues are probably contributing there little bit to the problem. Ever component in a set up adds its portion of imperfection until it equals a difference that yo can clearly see. I know for me that if it is centered enougn on the exiting end that I can still turn a pen. I am happy. this woud lnever do if you are doing segmented work or other "Need to be dead center" type work. better bits and better drilling methods do help in that case. mainly drill on the lathe and use pilot point or other bits that are designed for drilling end grain.

By the way, I usually see peopel go slower with their drilling. As in both drill bit speed and how fast they feed the bit through the wood. More often than not the answer is to actually go faster. the comment above about forcing the bit into the wood is true. there is a feel to when the bit is cutting it's way though and you want to learn to feel that and basically keep up with the bit as it chews it way through the wood. you do not want to be pushing hard to get the bit to go through but you do want to always feel in the palm of your hand that the bit is cutting. this usually results in the bit cutting through the blank much faster than we would expect.

 

[medemt]

Both of your suggestions may be contributing to the problem . Make sure the chips are coming freely out of the hole while drilling . You may have to raise the drill bit several times to ensure this . Some woods are worse than others for chip removal . Also some pieces of wood will have grain which the drill bit will follow . Other pieces have varying hardness , due to spalting , which will also steer the bit .

Wayne,
Thanks for the reply. I do make it a habit to make short cuts and I also have a vacuum keeping the hole and bit clean as it drills.

 

[medemt]

A number of you mention drilling on the lathe. I understand what you are saying but not being very experienced with the lathe, what is the best way to do this. Is there a thread that might show this or a tutorial as it would apply to pen blanks?

 

[randyrls]

Dan; Clamp a steel rod in the drill chuck and another in the pen vise. Size doesn't matter, but both rods should be held securely. Eye ball both front-to-back and side-to-side to make sure the gap between the rods is even. Extend the drill press quill and verify that the gap between the rods remains the same.

Drill bits need to be sharpened.

 

[wolftat]

Sounds to me like your drill press table isn't squared up.

 

[ed4copies]

Sounds to me like your drill press table isn't squared up.

Neil,

While this is a possibility, the exit hole should be at the same (wrong) place every time. The OP says it varies.

 

[TellicoTurning]

A number of you mention drilling on the lathe. I understand what you are saying but not being very experienced with the lathe, what is the best way to do this. Is there a thread that might show this or a tutorial as it would apply to pen blanks?

Dan
There are probably tutorials for the lathe drilling, I can't think of one right now, but it's pretty simple and a much better way to drill... after reading several posts from the brethren on IAP, I converted about a year back... much better success with almost any type of blank...

I have a little cmg3 chuck that I got from PSI about 8 years ago.. used it for a few things, and finally figured to use it on drilling blanks... it came with 4 small bars as part of the jaws... with them I can grip almost any shaped blank.. then you just need a jacobs chuck in the tail stock to grip your bit... lock your tail stock down, then use the quill advance to push the bit through your blank... stop regularly, pull the bit back to clear the hole, run the quill back to starting point, push the bit back into the blank and advance forward again... my little 1014 only has about a 2 inch quill travel, but my big lathe will travel almost 4 inches.. so I use the big lathe most of the time.... I normally drill at 450 or 600 rpms.

When I'm setting up, I usually keep the jaws loose, loosely holding the blank between the jaws and the bit until I've aligned the blank with the bit...then I then tighten the jaws... this works with odd shaped, out of square blanks, round blanks, antler, etc...

Once you try drilling on the lathe, you'll not go back to the dp..

This is the chuck I mentioned..

 

[jocat54]

Dan here is a good tutorial on drilling on the lathehttp://content.penturners.org/articles/2009/lathedrilling.pdf
I just started a month or so ago drlling on the lathe and there is just no comparision to drill press. I haven't had a single blank off center since changing

 

[TellicoTurning]

John,
That's a great tutorial... I knew that had to be some out there... it uses the premise that the turner is working with a collet system, I don't but I can see where the should never be a failure... I use my jaws to drill the square blank.

 

[jocat54]

Chuck,
I did buy the PSI collet chuck ($) but I think it has been worth it.

Dan, here's another link that deals with turning between centers but also shows drilling http://content.penturners.org/articles/2010/turningbetweencenters.pdf

 

[Rmartin]

All great suggestions, I would only add this,

Eliminate possible causes. Starting with a different drill bit, a larger diameter one on some scrap material. Go from there.

Drilling on the lathe is good for some, but I find it extra work, and I don't like to do extra work.

If drilling for a 2 blank pen, start the hole from the center/band end of each blank.

I have my drill press set as close to perfect as I can, but I will still get an exit hole slightly off from center from time to time.

 

[jocat54]

All great suggestions, I would only add this,

Eliminate possible causes. Starting with a different drill bit, a larger diameter one on some scrap material. Go from there.

Drilling on the lathe is good for some, but I find it extra work, and I don't like to do extra work.

If drilling for a 2 blank pen, start the hole from the center/band end of each blank.

I have my drill press set as close to perfect as I can, but I will still get an exit hole slightly off from center from time to time.

I have to agree with you-it takes a little longer-but once you start doing it there isn't much difference in time. I'm a pretty lazy guy always looking for a shorter or easier way but i don't think I will ever go back to the DP. The lathe is just to accurate and cuts out the frustration of off center holes

 

[Lenny]

When drilling on the drill press I use a 2" high fence that is rock solid, with no flexing. I clamp stop blocks both sides of the blank to prevent movement that way and insures that the blank is 90 degrees to the table.Then I place a clamp on the blank itself. It takes a little setup time as it has to be adjusted for each new blank if they vary at all in dimension, but I have found it to be worth it. (I now have made up a t-track system for my fence which helps make the adjustment process a little faster)
Bits that are dull will cause all kinds of problems trying to drill end grain. You might try the bullet style bits like the Colt (CSUSA) which is designed for drilling end grain.
There are some excellent threads here on drilling on the lathe. Type it into the search feature above or visit the IAP library. hth

 

[Chasper]

My guess is the the bit is flexing a little to follow the grain.

Why do you need the hole to come out exactly in the center? Unless you are drilling really tight like 7mm holes in 1/2 inch blanks, there is usually plenty of room to wander a little.

 

[MrPukaShell]

How did you check to make sure the bed on the drill press is square? Try this: Bend a pice of metal rod in a Z. Straighten it out a bit so it looks like an L on the bottom with the top going the other direction. Chuck it up in your drill press. It would go down from the chuck then make a 90 to the right or the left, then another 90 and down towards the table. Raise the table until the rod just touches the bed on one side then rotate the chuck so the rod goes the other side of the bed. If the rod touched the bed on all sides then you will need to look at other options. If the rod touches on one side and not the other then you have a table that is not square. Hope this helps. I'll see if I can get some pics if you need them, just let me know.

 

[Mickey]

All I can say is that after years of using a drill press I just recently switched to drilling on a lathe and ,WOW, what a difference. It was always a battle to keep the drill chuck aligned with the vice/clamp and then keeping the blank aligned between the two. Heaven forbid if I ever needed to move anything to use the drill press for anything else. I'd never go back to a drill press. It really isn't a difficult switch. You'll need a couple of extra small pieces of equipment and that's about it. You'll be amazed at how much easier and more accurate drilling with the lathe can be. Good luck with however you decide to do it.

 

[Dave_M]

How did you check to make sure the bed on the drill press is square? Try this: Bend a pice of metal rod in a Z. Straighten it out a bit so it looks like an L on the bottom with the top going the other direction. Chuck it up in your drill press. It would go down from the chuck then make a 90 to the right or the left, then another 90 and down towards the table. Raise the table until the rod just touches the bed on one side then rotate the chuck so the rod goes the other side of the bed. If the rod touched the bed on all sides then you will need to look at other options. If the rod touches on one side and not the other then you have a table that is not square. Hope this helps. I'll see if I can get some pics if you need them, just let me know.

Yeah I did something similar and now I my drill press is about as spot on as can be. In fact I recently screwed up gluing a pen tube in a blank. I used medium CA ( I usually use epoxy, but I was out) and it took hold before I could get the tube all the way into the blank. I just flipped the blank around and drilled it back through the other side. It drilled out the tube perfectly without enlarging the hole in any way. It drilled it perfect from the opposite end.

What I used to square my drill table was a straight piece of wood about 6" long, 1/4" thick and maybe 3/4" wide. I drilled a hole in each end and bolted a 4" machine screw through each end of the wood protruding in opposite directions. I chucked one of the machine screws in the drill and then used the other machine screw to touch the drill press table I made. I adjusted the table until the machine screw just barely touched the table the entire rotation of the chuck. I locked the table down tight and it's been drilling true ever since.

 

[medemt]

I want to thank all of you for your kind responses. It is great to have so many talented individuals on this forum. I knew I could count on you guys (gals)!!

Dan

 

[leestoresund]

A few personal observations:

I had a similar problem with the vise from Woodcraft. I noticed that the piece closest to the knob would flex downward. I put a shim under it.

I watched the drill bit flex. Surprised the heck out of me! Now I use a better drill bit. I guess drill bits also follow the tool rule: Buy the best (most expensive) you can afford.

Put a bit or a rod into the chuck. Raise the table and lower the chuck so that the vise can grip the bit. Clamp the vise to the table. Loosen vise. Bit is now centered on the vise for all sizes of wood that fit in the vise.

Still not exact but pretty close.

I, too, have taken to drilling on the lathe.

Lee

 

[philipff]

Are you sure the bit is straight? Check to be sure it is chucked properly. Use 1200 rpm on the drill. Keep the pressure very light---let the bit work the problem, not you pushing it down. Is the bit sharp? New? If not, start with a new brad point drill. Phil

 

[Daniel]

Richard, I agree with you on the extra work point. I have also started taking more and more to the idea of drilling on the lathe. Certainly when it is necessary such as in segmented turnings. Heck I am the type that will buy two cordless drill just so I don't have to change from the drill bit to the Driver bit.

 

[TellicoTurning]

All great suggestions, I would only add this,

Drilling on the lathe is good for some, but I find it extra work, and I don't like to do extra work.

I have to agree with you-it takes a little longer-but once you start doing it there isn't much difference in time. The lathe is just to accurate and cuts out the frustration of off center holes

I have to disagree about the extra work... I used to think the same thing, but after I got into a routine, it's actually faster than trying to set up the DP..(that's only my opinion.. not to start anything... you know the line about opinions....:biggrin::biggrin:.) and I do find it more accurate than the DP...

 

[Tim Vanderlaan]

Drilling straight

I have only made a few pens now and was drilling the blanks on my drill press with similar results. I was dissatisfied with the quality so I bought a Drill chuck for my lathe MT2 FROM Harbour Freight for 9.99 (7.99 online)

Couldnt be happier with the results!

 

[medemt]

A few personal observations:

I had a similar problem with the vise from Woodcraft. I noticed that the piece closest to the knob would flex downward. I put a shim under it.

I watched the drill bit flex. Surprised the heck out of me! Now I use a better drill bit. I guess drill bits also follow the tool rule: Buy the best (most expensive) you can afford.

Put a bit or a rod into the chuck. Raise the table and lower the chuck so that the vise can grip the bit. Clamp the vise to the table. Loosen vise. Bit is now centered on the vise for all sizes of wood that fit in the vise.

Still not exact but pretty close.

I, too, have taken to drilling on the lathe.

Lee

Lee,

Oddly enough, the vise that I have (and bought from CSUSA) is the same vise that Wood craft sells. At least the Woodcraft in Indianapolis. I am sure that thing is flexing so I am trying some other things before going to the lathe to do my drilling. I will probably use the lathe to drill in the future but I would like to understand the outcome of different methods so that when someone asks me what I have tried, I can give a beter answer.

Same thing with the drill bit, I know the one I have is flexing so this weekend I bought a better one. Will se how all this works.

By the way, I did the procedure for centering the vise as you described and the problem was still there.

Dan

 

[medemt]

I have only made a few pens now and was drilling the blanks on my drill press with similar results. I was dissatisfied with the quality so I bought a Drill chuck for my lathe MT2 FROM Harbour Freight for 9.99 (7.99 online)

Couldnt be happier with the results!

Tim,

Do you have the part number for the chuck you bought?

Dan

 

[markgum]

What I used to square my drill table was a straight piece of wood about 6" long, 1/4" thick and maybe 3/4" wide. I drilled a hole in each end and bolted a 4" machine screw through each end of the wood protruding in opposite directions. I chucked one of the machine screws in the drill and then used the other machine screw to touch the drill press table I made. I adjusted the table until the machine screw just barely touched the table the entire rotation of the chuck. I locked the table down tight and it's been drilling true ever since.

Dave,
do you have a photo of this?
thanks.