Guidance Request from a newbie pen turner

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PhilW

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Jul 18, 2018
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Sicklerville, New Jersey
What is a good alternative to a CA finish for wood pens? I am not certain if I like the "plastic" feel of the CA finish. I know the CA finish holds up better than other finishes, but how long do those other finishes last? Rough guess how long would triple eee or Aussie oil last? Are there any other choices that hold up as well as the CA? Thanks, all feedback is appreciated.
 
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Skie_M

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There are several ways to do a CA finish that don't leave the surface feeling like a piece of plastic, which it is .... Cyano-Acrylate is an acrylic (plastic) that has a very fast cure time and tends to bond to most things quite fast ... which is what makes it such a super glue. (get it? lol .... that's how they named it)

You can put a very very THIN coat of CA on an item, and it will follow the outside grain of the wood and coat it with a very thin layer. You can then immediately polish it and then clean off the excess polish that has adhered to the grain pattern. This leaves a finish that feels more like the wood, but it can still easily get dirty. To prevent this dirt buildup, you can SEAL the wood by putting a thick coat of CA on the item and then sanding it till the wood is just barely clear of the CA you have applied, and then apply another very thin coat of CA and polish. This time, you'll still get the wood grain feel, but any pores or holes in the wood would be filled and unable to collect dirt and oils from daily use.

Now .... a CA finish is somewhat UV resistant, oil and moisture resistant (seals against moisture loss or infiltration IF YOU SEAL THE ENTIRE BLANK), and can be built up in order to compensate for having over-turned a barrel ... It is also somewhat scratch resistant and can easily be buffed back to crystal clear. The duration of such a finish is measured in decades, if well cared for.



Any oil finish needs to penetrate and be rubbed into the surface .... depending on the oil, the rate at which it evaporates can be different. Some oil finishes need to be replenished or re-applied every 6 - 8 months, such as the oil used to eliminate moisture infiltration in your kitchen cutting boards to prevent food contamination.



Tripoli polish (pronounced triple E) is a wax compound mixed with some very fine abrasives .... the wax provides a surface shell as it is applied and melted into the outer wood fibers. Wax will fade/yellow in an environment with a lot of UV radiation (outdoors or under fluorescent lights, ect ... ) but wax coats are typically thin enough that you can't tell. It does wear off, however, and is not very hard at all (you can scratch through it with a fingernail). It does bind with the outer layers of the wood fibers, though, and gives some protection from moisture and tends to repel oils from fingers ... Many people put a wax finish as their final coat to repel fingerprints from staying on the item. As the finish is typically very very thin, you should still feel the wood grain, but this will wear off and need to be re-applied every 4 - 6 months


You can apply a finish made with epoxy ... or an acrylic made from plastic melted/dissolved in acetone and re-applied in very thin layers ... but either of these would leave you with a plastic coating over the pen.


You can leave a wooden pen barrel un-sealed and unfinished. The natural oils of your hand will then infiltrate the wood and stain it in certain patterns ... this MIGHT be preferred by some people, to be able to feel the wood and see how it changes daily over a long period of time. The oils from the skin, however, can leave a distictive smell and wont discourage bacterial growth ... it could cause the pen barrel to break down over time. Many people don't like to see their pen change like this.



Lastly ... you can use a piece of wood that has been "stabilized". A stabilized wood has been infused with epoxy or other sealants that infiltrate the grain of the wood and strengthen it from within. It also fills and seals voids, if done with that intention. Lastly, it requires no additional preservative that prevents it from breaking down or sealing it from moisture changes .... literally it turns the wood into a modern day fossil - totally encased in a plastic bonding matrix. It can be used to turn materials that you normally could NEVER turn into something that can turn easily ... like punky wood that would fly apart the instant your chisel hit it on the lathe, or dollar bills (shredded dollars) that would also just disintegrate without the epoxy holding it all together.

You could literally take a wisp of cotton and stabilize it and turn it into a pen barrel. You'ld see and feel a lot of plastic, with that, but it would work. However, a solid wood blank that has been stabilized feels like wood. It's a little heavier, will resist oil and moisture infiltration, turns like a solid piece even with voids that were missing from the wood or spots that were rotted (very punky). If you finish such a barrel using tripoli or hut wax, you'ld STILL want to re-apply the finish now and then, but it won't feel like plastic unless you are touching parts that were voids that got filled by the resin.
 

leehljp

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I like different forms of lacquer but they also give the shiny finish.

Waxes don't last but a week or two at the absolute most. Wax is a good finish, but you have to apply it about every other week for it to maintain its effectiveness. Most people are too lazy or untrained in this maintenance method.

Below is an approach with a long term protection that I don't see anyone trying, but it is viable. If you like the protection of CA but not the shine, just back off on the MicroMesh grit to the point that it doesn't shine:

http://www.penturners.org/forum/f28/shine-not-shine-32496/

Also, on the link above, look at the response in #3 and #7, both from Russ Fairfield, who passed on a few years ago.

I don't understand sales people who are so opposed to shine when shine is what 9 out of 10 want. I grew up with wood, in the woods, loving the look of fine finished waxed wood. But on some things, shine just shines. I love flat, matt or satin look on some woods in pens, but some just look great with the right shine.

Look at the finish in this pen
http://www.penturners.org/forum/att...-sh%F4en-neri-pine-sooth-lacquer-sho-en-5.jpg

Lacquer and shine. BEAUTIFUL

http://www.penturners.org/forum/f13/about-sh%F4en-neri-pine-sooth-lacquer-156155/

BTW, that pen will sell for well over $1000.00, Possibly $2000. If it were flat or satin, knock of 50%.
 

PhilW

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Jul 18, 2018
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Location
Sicklerville, New Jersey
Skie, Mark and Hank: thank you all for taking the time to provide the above guidance to a newbie like me. Greatly appreciated. Gives me several options to play with. Especially, the suggestion from Skie about the thin coats of CA. I think i need to practice more applying the CA. Sometimes i seem to get it right and other time i seem t get cracks around the nib, center and end cap. Not sure if I am pressing to hard when assembling the pens or if it is from the blank getting stuck on the bushings. I bought some of the "non-stick" bushings but i still get seem to get the blank stuck to the bushings. As they say practice makes perfect.... thanks again fro the responses.
 

Skie_M

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About the cracking during assembly ....

Clean and ream your brass tubes before assembly ... in fact it's best to do it right before you mount it on your lathe and then double check before assembly.

The most likely culprit is ... you left a little bit of glue inside the tube, and it's causing the tube to bulge out when you are pressing the parts. There is not enough leeway to allow for this, and the tube will force the barrel to move, which will crack any finish you use ... possibly even the barrel.

So ... the method I use is quite simple ... take an exacto-knife and put it in the end of the barrel at a 45 degree angle .... sweep it around the interior of the barrel to slice off a thin layer of brass to chamfer the inner edge of the tube. Also, double check by sighting carefully down the inside of the brass barrel to ensure there is NO GLUE INSIDE THE BARREL TUBE stuck to the walls. Any glue here during turning is going to make your pen barrel turn off center and "out of balance" .... the resulting barrel may even be out of round due to this kind of problem. Use the exacto blade to knock the glue loose and get it out of the tube.

This helps keep it from getting pressed on and stuck to your bushings as well, and also helps keep your barrels turning on center when there's nothing in the way ...

After applying your CA finish, and before you do your final polish ..... take the exacto-knife or a very fine parting tool of your choice to the lathe .... score just outside of the barrel (on the bushings) to cut through the CA... You'll want it CLOSE to the barrel, but not on it. After you take the blank off the bushings and the lathe, take some very fine sandpaper ... perhaps 2000 grit or higher, and sand the ends of the barrel to remove any little bits of CA sticking out off the ends before assembly. You can even re-polish by hand, or you could put it back on the lathe with non-stick cone bushings made for finishing (the cones point TOWARDS the barrel, so you can finish the ends of the barrel without the bushings in the way), and CA will not stick to them.

Also, you can apply a coat of wax to your bushings to prevent CA from sticking.

If you can ensure that there is nothing in the way inside the barrel tube, you should never have an issue with the barrel cracking .... unless you are using material that has ZERO FLEX TOLERANCE. There are some of us out here that deal with this kind of problem, though .... the fixes for that are to sand the interior of the barrel or to sand the brass parts that press in ... and then epoxy those parts in place rather than go for the press fit that expands the barrel slightly.

(a pen barrel made from stone would fit this last description .... also pen barrels made from solid metal materials ....)
 

randyrls

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Feb 2, 2006
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Harrisburg, PA 17112
I am not certain if I like the "plastic" feel of the CA finish.

Phil; I am with you! I too don't like a wood pen that "feels" plasticy (is that a word?). So as a last step I hit the blank with 0000 steel wool. This removes the shine and leaves a nice satin look and feel. The CA finish disappears and leaves just a wood feel to the pen. Keep the CA finish thin. I use all thin CA.
 

greenacres2

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May 2, 2017
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The finish lift at the assembly points was a problem for me. An uneven surface of CA on the ends of the barrels, when compressed on assembly, will crack (you can hear it happen if the room is quiet). I trim my blanks with a jig & transfer punches on a belt sander (not a barrel trimmer), so now after letting my CA finish dry, I go back to the sander and "gently kiss" the ends to just come back to the wood (or acrylic). Painstaking, but no more problem with the end lift.
earl
earl
 

mdburn_em

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Mar 16, 2006
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Chesapeake, VA, USA
Russ Fairfield did a test of a number of finishes. One of the finishes that beat out the CA finish for durability is Enduro. It will also give you a better warm wood feel.
 

chartle

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Mar 13, 2015
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Sometimes the Boiled Linseed Oil (BLO) and CA finish looks more like a poly finish. I've done some and except for maybe in the start don't have to sand or micro mesh to get a satiny finish.
 

PhilW

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Jul 18, 2018
Messages
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Location
Sicklerville, New Jersey
Thank you one and all for your responses. I really appreciate you taking the time to respond. A lot of great information and things that i will definitely try over the next several months. Also, apologies for not responding sooner, but I just became a Poppy (Grandfather) for the first time. My youngest daughter and her husband had a little baby girl last Wednesday. What an awesome experience and feeling. Take care everyone and again thanks for the responses and suggestions.
 
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