grinding and grinder questions

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Ok, new turner here, slowly learning this stuff. And starting to collect tools.

So…. at some point soon I need a way to keep things sharp. I have NEVER used a grinder at all.

Harbor fright has a ton of them. From huge all the way down to something that looks like it's meant to sharpen tooth picks.

What do I need just to sharpen pen turning tools and maybe drill bits?
Then do I need to replace the fairly crappy looking grinding wheels with something more specialized?

Finally tips (or videos if you know of some good ones) on technique.
 
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cjester

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Sharpening is one of those subjects where if you ask three people you'll get four opinions.

Regular grinders, even with a fine wheel, will remove material in a hurry. Go for a light touch up, and one bump later half your tip is missing.

Rikon offers a slow speed grinder that you should be able to find for ~$150. Looks like it comes with wheels appropriate for tool sharpening.

I see many people using diamond coated grinding wheels made specifically for sharpening tools. Looks like those cost more than the grinder.

I really like my Tormek systems. It's kind of expensive (the T4 is ~$400, without all the jig accessories), but I use it a lot, and for more than just turning tools.
 

Dale Lynch

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Get a drill doctor for your bits.Doesn't need to be the top dollar one.Best thing to ever happen to drill bits!

A mid priced grinder from your hardware store like the Delta shopmaster will suit average homeowner grinding needs.

A jig setup for your grinder,like those seen in the PSI catalog.Need jigs for the skew,gouge,and varigrind for repeatable results..Or learn to sharpen freehand and forget the jigs.

Fancy wheel are only good for getting money out of your wallet.A decent 80-120g wheel will sharpen all of your tools.I would get 1 of each.80 to shape 120 to sharpen.Buy a truing tool as well to keep the stones flat.
 

leehljp

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The earlier you understand this next recommendation, the quicker you will get to "sharp" tools.

1. A grinder of different types will do the job, but as said the HF ones are not that good at precision grinding. You are turning pens where matching the wood diameter to the size of the center bands, nibs and clip ends are a matter of getting the wood to within .003. or .005 consistently for a good pen, and doing that overtime. Rough grinding and hand grinding won't cut it unless you have years of experience behind it. Experience DOES allow one to do great things with cheap tools, but getting there is a journey for most, except for the most skilled.

2. Honing: Even grinding with a good grinder only goes so far. Some may stop grinding after using a good grinder. But that isn't really sharp. Honing is the final step and it only takes a minute or two to hone a tool; then a few seconds to re-hone it the 2nd, 3rd and 4th time. Honing puts a "mirror" like finish and makes it razor sharp. This is what is needed for consistent turning of different woods.

After a few times of honing a tool, you will be able to actually FEEL the difference in the way it cuts.
 
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howsitwork

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What ever you get the wheels are important. Slow speed grinders with white wheels are great for hss tools.

If you want to hone , I do for skew chisels, then diamond stones make less mess and stay flat.

Generally you want a fine wheel say 120 grit to refine the tools. Try all the grinding rests till you find one that feels good to you . There are loads I've got a Sorby system but wolverine etc are all good . It's also ESSENTIAL to get a devil stone or diamond dresser to true up the wheels on the grinder once mounted and as they get clogged, unless you go for diamond wheels. I have these on a dedicated tool grinder and they give a great finish but that's for metal working tools no wood turning ones.

Got to a local club and see what they're using try it and then decide. Hopefully you'll only need to buy a grinder once, so spend on something you will use and buy quality.

Hope that's of use, from the far side of the pond!
Ian
 

monophoto

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Sharpening is one of those subjects where if you ask three people you'll get four opinions.

That's profoundly true!

The important point is that if it works for you, it's perfectly ok. So the question is really what works for you? Getting an answer could be trial and error. Capt Eddy jokes that you can use anything to sharpen - even an old brick.

The difference between high speed and low speed is theoretically the speed of rotation, but a more important factor is how quickly the grinder removes metal. You can sharpen just fine on a high-speed grinder, but you must learn to use a light touch.

The difference between 6" and 8" is theoretically the diameter of the wheel, but it also is a factor in how quickly metal is removed. Also, a 6" grinder will produce a more noticeably hollow grind than an 8" wheel. That may nor may not matter to you.

The wheels that come with grinders are so-so - typically, they are 32g and 60g. You can easily replace a wheel, and the important factor in choosing the replacement is the grit. Color is totally irrelevant. Aluminum oxide is the preferred choice, and 80g-100g is better for sharpening. CBN wheels are really nice, but also really, really expensive. But they aren't really necessary.

As others have said, having a jig is helpful in controlling how you sharpen your tools, and that's more important if your grinder tends to remove metal quickly. You can buy a jig, or you can make your own.

You can also use sandpaper to sharpen tools. In fact, one tool manufacturer (Sorby) uses fancy belt sanders (called lineshers) for in-factory grinding.

Some tools are best sharpened using either conventional oil/wet stones, or diamond plates. For example, I only use diamond plates on my skews.

Having a grinder is helpful - that's the conventional tool for sharpening, and having a grinder is also important if you get into making your own tools (including carbide tools where you have to shape the bar that holds the carbide cutter). I'm glad I bought one and I use it to sharpen my gouges.

Diamond plates are also handy, and if you go with the brand-x variety, not that expensive. Harbor Freight has a nice four-sided block that is useful. I use it on my skews and bench chisels.

Diamond paddles are also handy and inexpensive (in the brand-x variety). Useful for sharpening drill bits, especially forstner bits.

And diamond cards are also very convenient to tune up a skew or a forstner bit.

I also have a 5" hook and loop sanding mandrel that I can attach to my headstock to make a disc sander with interchangeable grits. This is good for reshaping skews if you inadvertently clip a corner on a chuck (DAMHIKT), and also for sharpening gouges (you have to learn the technique of constantly rotating the gouge while sharpening on sandpaper)
 

JimB

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When I started turning 9 years ago I went through several learning steps for sharpening and each time I made a change my tool sharpness improved.

I started by using a regular 6" grinder and freehand sharpened. Then I built my own V-arm jig similar to the Wolverine and saw a dramatic improvement. Then I bought the slow speed grinder with white wheels from Woodcraft and bought the Wolverine System to with it. Another dramatic improvement. The final change was to start honing some of my tools. That was another improvement.

At the time I was able to buy the grinder and Wolverine system on sale and spent about $150. You can get the grinder on sale for about $100 and get the Wolverine for less than $100. In my opinion, it was worth every penny I spent.

There are other similar systems out there and you can also use another very popular process which is using a belt sander. You can buy the comibination belt/disk sander from Harbour Freight for about $60 and with just a few basic modifications have an excellent sharpening system.

No matter what, if you have HSS tools and are turning you should already be sharpening those tools.
 

mecompco

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I went the opposite direction. I switched to a carbide tool and don't sharpen much of anything (well...the lawnmower blade.) My goal was to make pens, not to learn how to sharpen tools.

Same here--have not touched my HSS tools since the Magical Skew arrived. Since I am cheap, I do use a diamond hone to re-sharpen my carbide cutters. I know there are things you can't easily turn with carbide, but for pens, I really don't see why everyone doesn't use them.

Regards,
Michael
 

Wildman

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Recommend buy a bench grinder locally if run into a problem can exchange or get a refund without paying shipping. Many folks have good luck with the variable speed grinders at Home Depot & Lowes but will need to buy aluminum oxide friable wheels at some point.

If live near a Woodcraft store they carry that slow speed Rikon 8" grinder and comes with aluminum oxide friable wheels. If have a local store that sells PowerTec grinders that same is grinder as the Rikon and come with friable wheels.

I would recommend Ryobi grinders at Home Depot over any Harbor Freight grinder. HP 8" grinders come with 3/4" wheels and not that reliable same goes for their 6" grinders. If buying a 8" grinder you 1" wide wheels.

Can only find Norton & Camel friable wheels today but other manufacturers offer them too. Friable wheels come in blue, pink or white. I cannot buy those wheels in my town so buy online from either Packard Woodworks or Sharpening Supplies.com.

Everyone recommends slow speed 8"grinders these days but been using a 6" BG 3400 RPM with friable wheels for more than 20 years without a problem.
 

KenV

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Jenny,

Bottom end mechanical sharpening for a spindle roughing gouge and a skew is to use a small belt sander clamped upside down in a vise or something similar. You can hang a rod across it for a rest. Used that for a couple of years with good success. Made marks on the edge of the sander for the sharp end of the blade so the bevel was consistent.

Workmate is an upgrade but gets to be a hassle changing discs. Works well though for moderate cost and with tool arm uses tormek jigs.

Upgrade is to a two wheel grinder 1/2 hp or similar. Have used 6 and 8 inch wheels, and would go for 8 inch and about 1750 rpm all other things being the same. Friable white/pink/blue wheels are better for high speed steel, but gray stones will sharpen also.

Wolverine jig system is the most common sharpening system for gouges (varigrind) and a decent platform. Skew jig is not worth the cost.

Deluxe is getting cubic boron nitride wheels. Ken Rizza sells a decent set. I run 180 and 600 grit.

I can still turn sharpening in a belt sander (used from a garage sale)
 

designer

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Another option is the Grizzly wet grinder. Very slow speed. Somewhere in the to 200 rpm range. I don't remember off the top of my bald spot. I have been using the ten inch anniversary model for 4 years now and very happy with it. Grinder is on the right side and the left has a leather stropping wheel. It took a few tries to get the setup right, but works great and is repeatable. The tormek attachments fit it too if you have extra money. I personally do not have any of them. The Grizzly attachments work but do not have the same adjustments the Tormek has and is a bit slower to set until you get used to them. Options, options and more options.
 

MTViper

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I got a slow speed Jet grinder and a wolverine system. Standardized my sharpening and helped me learn how to sharpen tools. I put CBN wheels on it and learned how to get them really sharp. CBN is a quantum improvement over traditional wheels where precise sharpness is needed. I also hone with a CBN hone I got at Woodcraft. Makes it so I have to sharpen less often.

Do whatever you can afford. Look to upgrade some time along the way if you can. Learn proper sharpening techniques and your turning experience will improve dramatically.
 

Charlie_W

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Plenty of info for you here! Quality counts. If you want quality...buy quality. Just like cars or golf clubs, lathes or gouges.

I recommend the slow speed grinder. The basic wheels are good to start with. Upgrade to CBN wheels later. Reminder: CBN wheels are for high speed tools only.
A 1/2HP is starters. Upgrade would be 1 HP. Heavier wheels like the CBN wheels would work better on the 1 HP grinder so there is less load on the motor during start up.

The Wolverine Jig Set up is made by OneWay. Not sure if their 20% off sale is still going on. Do get the jig set up with a platform, a V arm, and the Varigrind Jig for bowl gouges. I also sharpen my spindle Gouge with the varigrind Jig.
I do not use the skew Jig.

A jig set up will give you repeatable grinds with out the guesswork or a grind that changes as you keep grinding the edge of a tool.

Yes, a diamond hone is necessary for a fine sharp edge. You can touch up a Gouge with the hone many times before returning to the grinder.

Find a woodturner to teach you how to sharpen different grinds. A woodworker doesn't have the same needs as a woodturner.
Our Woodcraft has sharpening classes......and one of our club members teaches a sharpening class for Woodturners class there as well

Good luck!
 
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probably 15 years ago I got a slow speed wet grinder from Harbor freight. I wasn't expecting much from it, but it has been a great little grinder for me, even though the base of the grinder developed a crack in itself somehow.It has a nice white wet wheel about 1 1/2 inches wide on the slow side as well as a regular rough wheel on the other side that spins fast. I guess they discontinued this grinder a number of years ago, and that's a shame, it really is a nice grinder.
 

jttheclockman

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As mentioned ask 5 turners about grinders and you get 6 answers. I won't add any more because my setup is in amongst those mentioned already. But I will add this link that has valuable info on grinding wheels and the misconception on wheels . depends how much info you want to consume.

Will say this the Skew is your friend. Learn to use it, learn to sharpen it and learn to protect it. It will compete any carbide tool on the market. You will need to buy a jig to consistantly sharpen your tools to the same angles or if need to change angles. When sharpening the tools have a sharpie handy. Color the cutting area and when you set your jig up and lightly touch the grinding wheel, look at the marked edge and you should have taken all the color off if the jig is set up right.


GRINDING WHEEL and ABRASIVES BASICS
 

farmer

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Bench grinders and polishers

Ok, new turner here, slowly learning this stuff. And starting to collect tools.

So…. at some point soon I need a way to keep things sharp. I have NEVER used a grinder at all.

Harbor fright has a ton of them. From huge all the way down to something that looks like it's meant to sharpen tooth picks.

What do I need just to sharpen pen turning tools and maybe drill bits?
Then do I need to replace the fairly crappy looking grinding wheels with something more specialized?

Finally tips (or videos if you know of some good ones) on technique.

Very dangerous piece of equipment .....
Had my hands sucked into a grinder several times working in welding shops or mechanics shops .
Eye protection and hand protection very important
 

raar25

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Just for one more differing view, I have a HF bench grinder with a CBN wheel and i works great. Granted I needed to try a couple of them before I found one that would actually turn with the heavier wheel and it takes a minute to get up to speed, but if you don't mind running back to the store once or twice you can eventually find one that runs true and works for a good price. Also I love CBN wheels the steel stays cooler and it never needs dressing (especially handy for hi-carbon steel tools). They also run truer than stone abrasive wheels. But as mentioned they are only for hardened steels so the other side of my grinder always has an al-oxide wheel.
 
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WOW great info. Tons of it too. Sorry I didn't post sooner, didn't realize I have to subscribe to my own threads. Am now so won't miss anything.

Ok, I THINK I have a pretty good idea what to shop for and what to avoid.


As for the warning about the danger, I HAVE actually worked with a grinder before. Took a stain glass making class once. Grinding glass, dust size glass in the air, not at all a healthy thing. Wet grinding, mask, gloves a good idea (Though fingers are less of an issue getting cuts than eyeballs.)
Lathes can be pretty dangerous too if one isn't careful. ALWAYS be careful around shop tools huh?


So.. not rich, but avoid cheap. Decent grit, look for something to clean the wheel,
etc. Thanks all.

oh yea…. practice. I have a cheapo set of carving tools I got a long time ago. Actually been using them as roughing tools. Those will be my practice things since I only paid about 12.00 for a big whopping set of tools. I'll get the feel for what to do and not to do with those.
 
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mmayo

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I love my new Rikon low speed grinder with the Wolverine jig. My spindle gauge is sharp in one to two seconds. Light touch! I hone it and turn. I still like my carbide tools but finally have a system to sharpen HSS accurately and consistently.
 
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