Gouge?

[ctEaglesc]

Being self taught in the fine art of turning, can someone explain to me why you would used a curved tool(gouge) when you wish to turn a straight plane?
(as in a straight slimline, which I hardly ever makeI do however will start from a smooth cylinder when doing beads and coves)
Recently started using a 1& 1/2" regular old woodworking chisel(scarier than sharp) as a skew and it is great for leveling out a surface.
no more bumps,
I have relegated my gouges for for roughing only

 

[Kevin M]

I also use a woodworking chisel at times to plane out after the roughing gouge and it works great. I had never seen anyone mention it before and I was keeping this great idea to myself.[}]

 

[wpenm]

Eagle, It sounds to me like you use the tools to scrape rather than cut. If that is the case, than using a skew will produce a straighter line. However, if you are cutting than you should be able to use the gouge and get very good results. I sometimes use a blade from a block plane to scrape a blank smooth. It is all in how we use the tools.

 

[ctEaglesc]

Wouldn't scraping leave a rough surface?
WHen I am done with the WWking chisel I can go right to 320 or finer paper.

 

[tipusnr]

Either tool can be used to do a straight cut as it only involves keeping the cutting edge on a parallel line to the mandrel. The part of the tool in contact with the wood is very minimal (kind of like the patch of a bicycle tire that meets the road) and it is not really dependant upon the curvature of that surface.

Many people use a gouge because it is easier to present the cutting edge to the tool as there are no points to accidentally catch the wood.

 

[ctEaglesc]

Originally posted by tipusnr
<br />Either tool can be used to do a straight cut as it only involves keeping the cutting edge on a parallel line to the mandrel. The part of the tool in contact with the wood is very minimal (kind of like the patch of a bicycle tire that meets the road) and it is not really dependant upon the curvature of that surface.

Many people use a gouge because it is easier to present the cutting edge to the tool as there are no points to accidentally catch the wood.

Tip what I mean is I use the entire 1&1/2" lenght of the WWking chisel to straighten out the blank.I haven't seen a gouge that has a straight 1&1/2" cutting edge.

 

[Fred in NC]

Eagle, are you scraping with the 1-1/2" length?

 

[ctEaglesc]

Originally posted by Fred in NC
<br />Eagle, are you scraping with the 1-1/2" length?

yep []
Well I'm using the entire 1&1/2" don't know if I'm scraping or cutting, but it works.
(You gotta love love diamond stones)

 

[tipusnr]

Yes - you are basically using a scraping cut - which I will do as well when I'm having control problems. The good news is that you are doing it really well if you're getting that good a surface.

A planing cut is done presenting the edge of the skew at almost a 90 degree angle to the tool rest. I wish I could point you to a good picture on the net but am drawing a blank. Alan Lacer's skew video is really good and shows ALL the cuts a skew can do. I'm told Son of Skew is even better.

Try your local library as any basic turning book should show this cut.

 

[ctEaglesc]

Would not the agle to the tool rest be dictated by the angle of the bevel on the skew?
I have know idea what it is, all I know is that it works.
(glad I didn't take a turning class,someone would have told me not to do this)

 

[jimr]

You are right, Eagle, someone would have told you not to do this. The turning purists and ultra experts consider scraping to be a bit less than real turning. At least that is what all the old turning books say. I do exactly the same thing you do. I even use a 1 1/2 inch skew to finish barrels with a gentle curve. I can start on one end and rock the skew horizontally and move to the opposite end. Depending on the wood I get a very smooth surface. On some hard, tight wood I can even see some reflection starting as I move the skew. I have tried the "planing" cut with the skew which is a real cut, not a scrape. It works but I am not good enough to have sufficient control to get a super smooth surface. Another thing I have found is that if the edge of the skew is applied just a bit higher on the blank cylander it smooths even better. But its a bit riskier also. It is the beginning of a planing cut and with the entire 1 1/2 inch edge contacting the wood it can chatter and catch much easier.

 

[Scott]

Hi Eagle,

I remember a couple of years ago the first time Bob (TXBob) Swartzendruber dropped by to visit me. We were doing some turning, and I grabbed the skew and started cutting away with it. Bob kind of cleared his throat, and said "You know you're scraping with that thing, not cutting?" Back then I didn't know scraping from slicing! (Hey Bob, I do somewhat better now!) ;-)

But the fact of the matter is, there sometimes is just nothing like a scraping cut to even out a surface. Whether you're using a skew or a wood chisel, who cares. And you're right, sometimes a rounded gouge just doesn't afford than nice consistent straight line you're looking for. I also have to say that I have seen people use all kinds, sizes and shapes of cutting tools and be able to get most any profile they're shooting for, so I guess it comes back to the turner being comfortable with the method as the most important consideration.

I have gotten to the point where I mostly use a skew for most of my penturning. It doesn't mean I can't use a gouge, and I have even been playing with a bedan. As I use the skew I move it around and use it at all kinds of interesting angles, from fine shaving-slicing to scraping. I find it to be versatile, and I have a certain comfort level with it. And more than whatever tool you choose to use, it's that comfort level I encourage people to look for. From the way your pens look, I'd say you're pretty comfortable with the process you're using, and I wouldn't change! ;-)

Scott.

 

[ctEaglesc]

Thansk Scott
If you know me as I think you do I had no intention of changing.
I feel the wood chisel is an extension of the skew.
I cringe when I hear advice given to "get close with a gouge and then the 80 grit rasp.
The first turning tools I ever used came with a Jet pen lathe.(Luckily they went back with the lathe)
What I did learn is that it is easier to turn with a sharp skew than a dull gouge.
I didn't have much to sharpen with other than a hand cranked grinding wheel.
It was easier to turn the crank and sharpen a skew than a gouge.
I got pretty good with the skew.
I grabbed the wwking chisel because it was handy one day.I couldn't find the long handled skew that came in hte HF set adn my belly got in the way when I used it any way.
My point is the steel in those wood chisels is pretty good.
They sell short handled turning tools.
Woodworking chisels are cheaper than the turning tools they sell.
I now have a motorized grinder.
I still use that diamond stone.

 

[leehljp]

Like Eagle, I have not had any training on what is right. I asked a question a couple of weeks ago that is related to this thread. I was using a skew as a scraper and have since learned that what I really needed was a "scraper" chisel that is available from many places. I have a beginner's set, so the scraper is not a part of it. I also pulled out an older set of 6 chisels and did not have one there either. It did have two skews so I made one into a scraper.

The differences in a scraper and skew are the angles of the edge to the work. My home made scraper has a straight edge like the skew for making the straight cuts like Eagle said. Also the difference in using a scraper versus a skew for "scraping" is tremendous and mine is home made. I am sure a factory made scraper would be better. I have been sharpening blades of different types for years and can put mirror edges on them, so my skew is sharp. but it just does not cut as well as the scraper when trying to make a straight line like on a slim line pen.

The problem with the skew is that when laying flat on the tool rest using it to scrape, the top of the bevel is still presenting itself at a non optimal angle, regardless of how sharp it is. The scraper overcomes this and "planes" a good straight cut - at least for me.

 

[ctEaglesc]

Hank now you got me confused.
I kind of "eyeballed" the skew and figured it was supposed to be 30º.
That's what I ground the chisel to and then honed it on the diamond stone.
(I really need to get a wider stone,it's tough doing 1/2 of that chisel at a time)

 

[Travlr7]

When I started turning pens, I took a class at Woodcraft. The teacher, also one of the owners, gave me a 1-1/2" roughing Gouge. I asked him if I was going to start with a LOG! He said "Here" and handed me a piece of Brazilian Cherry 3/4" X 3/4" X 6". I thought "O........K........" what am I suposed to do with that. He cleared it up for me. Unless you are making small beads and coves, you can use a large tool to make small things, but it's difficult to make large items using small tools.

I usually turn Slimline pens. Unless, I'm doing some beads, I turn them with a 1-1/4" roughing gouge. I use a skew to do the fancy work. Once in a while, when I get in a hurry and get "skip" bumps, the skew will clean them up for me.

A reason for using a gouge vs a flat blade tool is that there is less chance for a catch on very thin wood.

In the next day or two, I will be posting pictures of 20 pens for the FPP. They were all turned with only the 1-1/4" roughing gouge.

Bruce

Bruce

 

[wee willie]

For myself I use a 3/4" and 1/2" gouge and occasionally a scraper. For the life of me I just cannot use a skew it always wants to take off material where I don't want it to and on most times just digs in. I have watched a video on turning small items where a skew is used and i have tried to do it the same way but to no avail,so I always go back to what i am comfortable with and works for me.

 

[JimGo]

Willie,
I have that problem with my smaller skew, and I think it is because the edge was not ground properly; there's a slight bow to it. One of these days, I hope to have that skew properly sharpened. I think Woodcraft will do it for like $4 per tool, which may be worthwhile.

 

[leehljp]

Eagle,

The skew's leading edges are arrow shaped, or beveled on the top and bottom; the scraper chisels (for turning) are flat on the top and beveled on the underside like a woodworking chisel. That is why you are having good success with your woodworking chisel. The bevel of the woodworking chisel's edge is similar to the bevel angle of the scrapers. These do much better for straight line pens than skews do, in my newbie opinion.

The skew, no matter how sharp, scraps off fluff because of the bevel angles when used as a scraper, and acts somewhat like a knife edge for shearing ply when used properly; on the other hand, a sharp scraper is held a little further down on the work, near horizontal and planes somewhat like a scraper hand plane for smoothing. Again. I think that this is why you are getting smooth cuts from your WW chisels. I am too.

Just MHO

 

[wicook]

I've been using a 3/4" round nose scraper to bring blanks close to the final size, then switching to a 1" skew (used as a scraper for the most part) to smooth out the surface and create the final profile I'm looking for. I've used gouges of different sizes, but I find that a really sharp round nose scraper works much faster and easier than a gouge for roughing out the blank. When I'm done with the skew, I have a very flat, somewhat polished (probably equivalent of about 320 or 400 grit paper) surface. After trying other lathe chisels, I think this is the combination I've settled on. I still find myself using a gouge on occasion to deal with end grains on some woods, though. Oh well... []

 

[Fleabit]

For your original question eagle, the gouge is used to get a piece "roughly" to where you want to work it with finer tools. If you work with it long enough you find you can do quit a bit to "rough" out the work. The bevel and roundness of the gough is more forgiving in the beginning of the turn which keeps the catches and kicks almost non existing. I have found that you can also use it at 90 and than roll it to 45 as you make your pass. This speeds up the shaping of the ends of the barrels where the cap and nib go. Overall, it is a turners preference. I have seen seasoned turners that do the job almost completely by a gouge, using different size ones as the close into finish. I start with the gouge and end with the skew. Works for me. I will have to try the chisel though. Sounds like basic scraping that is used on flat board working.

 

[Fred in NC]

Personally I like a roughing gouge with a slight fingernail profile. That is a rounded end. Not quite like a bowl gouge. It is more forgiving, and I can turn a pen all the way with it, IF I WANT. With a fingernail profile I don't have to switch to a smaller gouge most of the time.

Disclaimer: I said PERSONALLY I LIKE. The length of your chips might vary.

 

[Gary]

Fred...did you buy that somewhere or grind a roughing gouge to that profile?

Originally posted by Fred in NC
<br />Personally I like a roughing gouge with a slight fingernail profile. That is a rounded end. Not quite like a bowl gouge. It is more forgiving, and I can turn a pen all the way with it, IF I WANT. With a fingernail profile I don't have to switch to a smaller gouge most of the time.

Disclaimer: I said PERSONALLY I LIKE. The length of your chips might vary.

 

[Fred in NC]

I was about to regrind my gouges when somebody gave me an old set of turning tools. They were factory ground to that shape.

 

[Gregory Huey]

I don't know if I am right or wrong but I ruff my blank in with a gouge then switch to the skew and use it as a cutter (planer) and as a scraper. I do know it woks for me and like eagle I start my sanding with 400 grit.