Gorilla glue frustrations....tube migration

[woodscavenger]

I use GG for my upper barrels on Barons. The 25/64th is just too big for CA. I even bought an expensive bit from BB thinking maybe my cheap HF bit had a little runout. Turns out it didn't and the new bit even seems to wander more than my cheap HF brad point.....anyway....I drilled and tubed 5 Baron blanks.Normally I run a piece of tape around the blank but then none of the glue escpapes and it makes it a pain to clean out the tube. So last night I glued them but stood them on end. I put them on a peice of carboard so I could just tear them off. Tonight I came out, excited to turn my first amboyna and there it sat. On end with 3/8" of the brass sticking out the top of the blank!![:0] I was so disgusted I figured anything I do tonight will probably have MR Murphys signature all over it. No way.

So how do you I salvage this one???

 

[wicook]

The way I dealt with a similar problem when I first used GG was to cut the protruding end of the tube off with my bandsaw, cut a length of tubing to fit the other end of the blank (where there is no tube), then glued it in place. It worked like a charm.

Since then, however, I always wrap a rubber band (an elastic if you're Canadian) around the blank to hold the tube in place. I haven't had one push out since that first time. [8D]

 

[alamocdc]

I believe not long ago that Eagle posted to soak them in acetone. That should disolve the glue and let you remove the tubes. Make sure you let the blanks dry out before regluing. If I find the post, I'll edit this with the link to it.

EDIT: Yep, here it is:
http://www.penturners.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=6807

I forgot to add that the turner that had the problem used Eagle's acetone suggestion with success.

 

[timdaleiden]

Poly Glue softens when heated. I have never had the tube push out yet, and I hope I never do. If it ever did happen to me, I would heat the brass somehow, and hope I could salvage. Good luck.

 

[darbytee]

Not sure how to fix this one, but I use baseplate wax on the ends of my tubes and then rubber bands to hold the tubes in place until they dry. The wax keeps the glue out of the tubes and the rubber bands keep the tubes inside the blanks.

 

[pen-turners]

Whenever I use Poly I always secure the tubes with the 1" diameter rubber bands looped lengthwise over the ends. Haven't had a problem since.

Chris

 

[elody21]

This is not for a salvage mission but next time you should try 2 part 5min epoxy from Devcon. It takes about 30 min before you should turn even though it dries in about 5 min. I get this at Sears. 2 huge bottles for about $9.00 It lasts a long time and works great. I make sure I have any glue out of the tube before it drys. Just use a cue tip for removing the wet glue. I usually lie the blanks on their side making sure the tube has not slipped. As long as they are on a flat area the tubes don't move. The warmer it is the faster this sets.

 

[Old Griz]

Shane, that is the main reason I stopped using GG and went back to epoxy.. if I am doing a oneoff I use the 5 minute, if I am doing a couple at a time (the usual system) I use 90 min epoxy.. No more tube wander and no problems with the blanks coming loose...

 

[lkorn]

Tom,
How do you apply the epoxy to the tubes? I've been merely slathering the stuff on (same with Thick CA) but I also wind up making a mess, wasting a large amount of glue in the process.

Originally posted by Old Griz
<br />I use 90 min epoxy.. No more tube wander and no problems with the blanks coming loose...

 

[ctEaglesc]

We all use different methods , different glues etc.
Those that use poly glues love it.
I have worked with Polyurethanes and I would rather unstick my fingers that wear gloves or walk around with stain on my hands.
I have made a couple of Barons and noticed the holes weer a little large but since I use CA exclusively I have found different methods to use and not have problems.
The key is knowing what method to use.
The most important step is scuffing the tube.I don't just remove the tarnish, I left them "bounce" on my bench grinder and when the are done in a few seconds, they are ROUGH with a visible raised surface.
I sometimes use paraffin to seal the ends.I do this if the hole is over sized or if the blanks is a porous material, punky woods, corn cob, some antler.
This is where the use of thin CA comes in.
I may choose to "stabilize from the inside out"drizzling the CA in the tube and revolving it to get good coverage.Redrill the tube after a spritz of accelerant.
When I use the paraffin , I scrape the end of the tube over the block of wax,plunge a rod in the tube to Pack the wax and leave it flush with the end.
When I go to glue it I put a bead of Thick CA in the end of the blank and glue on the tube as usual.
As I insert the tube with a twist motion the plugged end will coat the the inside of the blank some of the glue will "squeegee" out and remain on the end I inserted the tube from.
I hit both ends with accelerant of my choice.
Acetone, alcohol or the commercial stuff,what ever I have on hand.
To do this is not as difficult as it is to type it.
The beauty of doing it this way is other than the redrilling and "punching" out the wax doesn't take that long to have a blank that is ready for turning in 5-10 minutes.
I know many use base plate wax from BB and when my 20 blocks of 10 year old cheap paraffin are used up I may try it.
For what ever reason you choose to use the adhesive you do is your choice, but I have never had a tube push out by using it.
I have had them "grab" but it is an easy fix and puts off that pen for aboput 2 days.
I just glue up another and turn it the same day.
The common term is Super glue, not Magic glue.
It does need good coverage to work

 

[airrat]

With GG I use a clamp and wax papaer. Put the wax paper over both ends leaving a small section of it exposed for the GG to expand and clamp. Have not had any tubes become exposed with it. Clean up was easy.

 

[alamocdc]

Larry, I also use epoxy exclusively. I mix it toward the edge of a piece of cardboard or post-it pad. Then I roll the first half of the tube in the epoxy to get about a 1/32" covering all the way around. Then I insert the tube with a twisting motion until it is fully seated. The epoxy will wick into the blank as needed. You shouldn't have to apply additional epoxy using this method, but if your hole is over sized and you do, just stop and use a toothpick and apply more around the tube.

 

[MDWine]

So far, GG has been great! I don't have any problem with tube "wandering"!

I spread the glue inside, insert the tube, lay it on it's side... no clamps, no rubber bands, just lay'm on a sheet of wax paper to keep my benchtop clean!

Lucky I guess?

 

[wayneis]

I use 5 minute epoxy for most all of my blanks, for the ones like the Baron that have a little extra room I do use a poly glue. What I do different from the above methods is that I mix my glue on a piece of glass, (after the excess hardens I scrape it off with a razor blade, good to go again) I then roll the tube in the epoxy and put in blank twisting it back and forth then pull it out and put it in the other end. I started incerting tubes in both ends because I noticed one day when I withdrew the tube that not all the inside of the blank was coated with glue and we all know that that is the biggest reason for blow ups. How ever you do it the most important thing is to get the glue coating all of the blank insides and the outside of the tube.

Wayne

 

[Old Griz]

Larry, I do the same as Billy... it aint rocket science.. [][]

 

[ilikewood]

Epoxy (5 min) for me as well. Just too much hastle with the PU glues and CA (for tube gluing).

One note, if you are sanding and it gets hot, it could soften your epoxy as well and cause the blank to slip on the tube. As soon as it cools off, it will reset. This is mostly for materials that require extensive sanding and usually not wood.

 

[swm6500]

I still have and use Poly, CA and Epoxy. I think if I could use only one I would pick the epoxy. I use a 30 minute epoxy I got from Daniel on is bulk buy program.

 

[woodscavenger]

How is cost with epoxy vs poly?

 

[Dario]

Originally posted by MDWine
<br />So far, GG has been great! I don't have any problem with tube "wandering"!

I spread the glue inside, insert the tube, lay it on it's side... no clamps, no rubber bands, just lay'm on a sheet of wax paper to keep my benchtop clean!

Lucky I guess?

I do the same, apply GG on the inside of the blank using a bamboo BBQ stick. Put in the tube with more GG along tube's exterior. Put the blank horizontally on top of old newspaper (several layers for good measure). The GG bubblies do stick to the newspaper but that doesn't bother me, will be turned away anyway []

I mostly do them in batch of 20-30 and never had any problem. Maybe I am just lucky too [].

I usually do it at night before going to bed...next day they are ready for some "clean-up" and may be turned that afternoon.

 

[dubdrvrkev]

Do you guys use base wax or anything to seal the ends of the tubes before inserting them? I use GG on tubes that are fairly loose fitting (baron caps), but I dislike the clean up of the foam that goes inside the tubes. I was going to use wax, but I use a homemade instertion tool (1" dowell turned conical)to handle the tubes after I acetone wipe and spread glue on them. So that won't work well, since most of the stuff comes in the end that the tool goes in.

 

[gpadgham]

If I have foam that has swelled into the tubes, I usuall just run a utility knife around the inside of the tube, cleans it up quite nicely. Sometimes I take a little shaving of the brass tube out with it, but nothing critical.

 

[vick]

I use Gorilla and bees wax the tube ends. With the longer set time of poly the need for an insertion tool changes I just use the tip to push the edge in. Actually lately I just use rubber gloves and push them in with my finger. If you can come back and puch the bees wax out after the glue has set but just started to foam it is the easiest. If I let them fully dry I do like Garret and cut the hardened foam out than push out the wax.

 

[vick]

Kevin,
I you want to try the bees wax before you buy let me know and I will drop of a small piece.

 

[Rifleman1776]

25/64ths on the BB Baron kits seems to be exactly correct for me. And that is with three different maufacture bits. I rough the tubes with coarse sandpaper and use 5 min. epoxy applied with a toothpick. Excess is cleaned out with a trimmer or drill bit. Methinks some folks are overthinking this glueing in business.