Gluing tubes in acrylic pens

[owlelope]

I am just new doing acrylic pens. With my wood pens I have been using two part epoxy to glue in the tubes. Does this work well or is a medium or thick CA better?

Any other helpful hints are appreciated.

Owlelope

 

[penmanship]

For the acrylics I make, I use GORILLA Glue with great success...........(so far that is)

I have used CA, but have had it let go when milling up the ends.

Tim

 

[alphageek]

IMO epoxy is overkill, but if you are using it for wood... It will work well for acrylics too. I tend to use CA for most wood & acrylics... But I will use Gorilla or epoxy for certain rare conditions.

 

[johnnycnc]

Rod,
I use two part epoxy for all my blanks, regardless of material.
I had too many catastrophic failures with CA glue, my personal experience.

 

[ldb2000]

I use Thick CA for most blanks but for some of the more brittle acrylics I use Epoxy to be sure that I get 100% adhesion between the blank and tube .

 

[thewishman]

Rod,
I use two part epoxy for all my blanks, regardless of material.
I had too many catastrophic failures with CA glue, my personal experience.

What he said.

 

[Bikerdad]

What do you gents mean by "catastrophic" failures?

 

[ldb2000]

what do you gents mean by "catastrophic" failures?

boom !!!

 

[talbot]

I use epoxy with acrylic blanks now. Used to use CA but had a few tubes seperate from the blank during assembly. I do use CA with wood blanks however without any problems.
regards, Bill

 

[johnnycnc]

boom !!!

+1 :biggrin:

 

[GaryMadore]

What he said.

+2

Cheers!

Gary

 

[Chasper]

IMHO 2 part epoxy is overkill. I've used thick CA in well over 1000 pens and only had one or two failures where the tube spins and the blank doesn't, never anything spectacular.
However, I use epoxy on all transparent acrylic. I paint the inside of the blank, and mix a little paint in the epoxy, if there is room I also paint the tube. CA will disolve the paint and let the tube color shine through, epoxy will not disolve the paint. I only use epoxy to hide the tube, not because it holds better; which it does.

 

[David M]

been using more expoxy in acrlic , sence this

 

[TellicoTurning]

I use the thick CA I get from Monty on all of my pens, except for the catridge pens.. I use the gorilla glue there because of the foaming and it helps with the centering. I do use the epoxy when I need to paint the tubes... I also mix a little paint into the epoxy. It's either me or the epoxy, but I find it a little messy to work with - probably me, but always wind up with as much on my fingers as I get on the tubes.

Knocking on green wood (raps to the side of the head) so far I haven't had any glue failures with the CA...

On my crush grind peppermills, I've had the piece that goes in the top and turns the shaft fail twice using CA... I've switched to epoxy for all of my pepper mills.

 

[stolicky]

I typically use 2-part for non-wood and gorilla for wood. The reason I don't use gorilla for non wood is that it needs moisture to bond and there is really little moisture in plastics....

I have had CA dissolve painted tubes and also have had the tube break free of the blank.

 

[GouletPens]

I'm a little perplexed by the ones who say 2-part epoxy is 'overkill'. That's like saying having airbags in your car is overkill since you'll most likely never need them.....2-part takes a little more patience but performs better in so many ways to CA for gluing in tubes (CA is much better in other applications though).

I started out using CA for everything, after many wasted acrylics I switched to epoxy, turns out its better for wood and acrylics. Never used G-glue for tubes, but that crap is a mess anyway. I like epoxy better for everything because after about 25 times of gluing my fingers together with CA I just got sick of it. The only time I use CA now is for finishes and laminating (it rocks for these things!). :RockOn:

 

[ed4copies]

What do you gents mean by "catastrophic" failures?

Paraphrasing what was once said about pornography, "You will know it when you see it!!"

 

[ed4copies]

Sorry David,

Your zebra was a "catch". What always amazes me (yes, I have done that) is that it does NOT break along the color lines. Amazing manufacturing!!

When I do this, I realize (15 seconds too late) that I was not paying attention and I touched the blank with my tool not supported, particularly near the end of the blank. When the tool hits the tool rest, it causes the blank to break off. The result is in your picture.

Been There, Done That!!!

 

[alphageek]

I'm a little perplexed by the ones who say 2-part epoxy is 'overkill'. That's like saying having airbags in your car is overkill since you'll most likely never need them.....2-part takes a little more patience but performs better in so many ways to CA for gluing in tubes (CA is much better in other applications though).

I started out using CA for everything, after many wasted acrylics I switched to epoxy, turns out its better for wood and acrylics. Never used G-glue for tubes, but that crap is a mess anyway. I like epoxy better for everything because after about 25 times of gluing my fingers together with CA I just got sick of it. The only time I use CA now is for finishes and laminating (it rocks for these things!). :RockOn:

I guess overkill wouldn't make sense for you since you switched after wasting acrylics. As long as I havn't needed something other than ca for a different reason (product needs painting being the primary).... I have not had failures due to CA. Since I haven't had a CA failure and epoxy takes me MUCH more time to do, thats why its overkill for me. That isn't saying that it is overkill for everyone.

As for your airbag comparison... For me epoxy isn't like an airbag in a car... Epoxy for most of my tube would be like wearing 5 point harnesses, a flame retardant suit and a helmet in a normal car. Is it safer - yes... so why wouldn't you use them all the time too

I'm not suggesting that epoxy is the wrong answer.... Its just that the right answer is different for different people. That being said... Back to the original question.... If the poster is using epoxy for wood, thats likely going to be a great answer for them for acrylics too.

 

[mick]

Ok ....now I'm going to use the word perplexed...I'm perplexed when I see all the posts about CA dissolving the paint on tubes or inside the blank. In 4 plus years of gluing blanks I've used primarily thick CA and almost always painted my tubes and blanks with plain old acrylic craft paint. I've never had paint to dissolve. I do let it dry overnight before I glue the tubes in and IMHO I think thats why. As to the blowout, (sorry Ed I too recognize that as a catch) when it occurs 99% of the time it's from poor glue coverage. You have to devolop a technique which totally covers either the tube or the inside of the blank with glue. There are seveal factors here not only involving glue, type and thickness but also hole size. I've adjusted several of my pen styles to accommedate either painting the tubes or the insides of blanks...or both. Some of the kits, there just isn't enough tolerance with the original drill bit size to allow for this.(go up a size) Some styles the holes were way too big to begin with. (painting narrows these tolerances allowing for better chances of total glue coverage)
Anyway, adjust the hole you are going to drill to have an"ideal" amount of space for glue, then using the glue of your choice totally cover either the inside of the blank or the tube.
Here's what I do:
I'll take my drilled, painted blank and holding it at about a 45 degree angle I'll squeeze what I think is a good amount of thick CA into one end as I rotate it slowly. I continue rotating it until the glue is coming out the lower end of the blank. I then take my tube which I've rolled about half of it in a small puddle of CA and insert it into the blank in a slow twisting motion until It's all the way in ( I use a pencil or whatever to push it the last 1/4 inch or so and my fingers stay away from the glue. The glue on the tube has pushed back coating the tube as I slid in it and the twisting motion has further spread the glue around inside the tube. This method DO use a lot of glue...but it also insures me total coverage and fewer blowouts
If you're having problems with blowouts or just generally not getting good glue coverage try this....you might like the results...:biggrin:

 

[babyblues]

I think Mick is right here. The issue is coverage. If you're having a lot of failures using CA, than maybe the problem isn't the glue you're using, but the technique you're using for applying the glue. I've only ever used CA for both wood and acrylic and the only failures I've had were because I got too impatient and the glue wasn't dry yet. I've never had a failure from insufficient coverage. Also, if you're bearing down so hard that the material is coming off the tube, you might also want to think about using a lighter touch. It doesn't take much glue to hold the tube in the wood or acrylic. By all means, use epoxy if that's what you like, but the issue isn't the adhesive you're using.

 

[bitshird]

I typically use 2-part for non-wood and gorilla for wood. The reason I don't use gorilla for non wood is that it needs moisture to bond and there is really little moisture in plastics....

I have had CA dissolve painted tubes and also have had the tube break free of the blank.

I like using Epoxy on Acrylics because I can use the dyes for PR mixed with the Epoxy and it hides the tubes well, as far as the moisture required for Gorilla glue, just swab the inside of the blank with a water dampened Q tip I've done a few Alternative Ivory blanks that way, since I don't have a 13.3mm drill it works good on El Grande's and Churchill's.

 

[Chasper]

IMHO 2 part epoxy is overkill. I've used thick CA in well over 1000 pens and only had one or two failures where the tube spins and the blank doesn't, never anything spectacular.
However, I use epoxy on all transparent acrylic. I paint the inside of the blank, and mix a little paint in the epoxy, if there is room I also paint the tube. CA will disolve the paint and let the tube color shine through, epoxy will not disolve the paint. I only use epoxy to hide the tube, not because it holds better; which it does.

Sometimes I file away information and never go back to check to see if it is accurate. For a long time I've had myself believing that CA disolves Testors paint. Wrong! I switched from CA to 2 part epoxy way back when I was coloring tubes with magic markers. When I switched to Testors I kept on using 2 part epoxy. I think I have it straight now.

 

[penmanship]

boom !!!

lol..........that would do it!

 

[cbb007]

Gorilla Glue

Most of the pens I make are acrylic. I have graduated from CA to Gorilla glue. Gorilla works great and if you get it on you, you don't have to worry about it fusing your fingers to something in half a second.

Whatever I glue, I wait 24 hours to turn it, but I can live with that.

 

[JohnU]

I use 2 part epoxy on everything also. I even tint the epoxy with the paint I used on the tubes.

 

[ldb2000]

Just remember that with Gorilla glue if you have an oversize hole that you are depending on a layer of FOAM to hold your tubes in . Gorilla glue on a tight fitting tube will bond very well but the foam has NO structrual strength and while you think you have a good bond , you don't .

 

[wdcav1952]

We had a saying in dental school that applies here:

This method works best in MY hands

Frankly I get a bit tired of people saying their way is the best and other ways don't work. It is not just this thread. People who end mill with sanders say pen mills don't work, others say you must use micro mesh with the pads since the strips don't work. Then of course, there is the wet sand/dry sand discussion.

All of the glues mentioned in this thread will work if used CORRECTLY!! As Ed said, most "catastrophic" failures are the result of momentary inattention. It can be inattention with a turning tool, or inattention to detail while gluing tubes in a blank, or inattention while drilling, resulting in a fit for the tube that is too tight or too loose, both of which can cause failures.

Find methods that work best in your hands and use them. Let others find what works best in their hands, be it over or under kill.

End of rant.

 

[Jgrden]

Sometimes I file away information and never go back to check to see if it is accurate. For a long time I've had myself believing that CA disolves Testors paint. Wrong! I switched from CA to 2 part epoxy way back when I was coloring tubes with magic markers. When I switched to Testors I kept on using 2 part epoxy. I think I have it straight now.

I want to try this "2 part epoxy". Please describe exactly what to buy. Please and thank you.

 

[GouletPens]

Loctite 5-minute 2-part epoxy like this: http://www.loctiteproducts.com/products/detail.asp?catid=11&subid=49&plid=760

There are other brands, but the reason I like this one is b/c the resin and hardener are different colors, which makes it easy to mix 50/50. Dries clear. Goes far. The two big bottles are $15 at HD. They'll do, I dunno, 150-250 pens I guess? Never really counted. When my expenses get below a nickel for each pen, I tend not to worry about it too much.

 

[babyblues]

Find methods that work best in your hands and use them. Let others find what works best in their hands, be it over or under kill.

I may be wrong, but I thought that is exactly what we're doing here. If no one speaks up and says, "Hey, I think I've got a better way" than how would any of us improve? I mean, why do any of us do anything the way we do? Because we think it's the best way. Whether that's the best way in every circumstance with any set of tools to accomplish any goal isn't the point. I'm pretty sure that most people who have posted here are talking about what they have found works best for what they're trying to accomplish. It's up to the rest of us to evaluate that in light of our own goals and decide if our goals are in common. I thought that was the point of threads like this. To share information and increase everyone's knowledge base and help us all become more accomplished penturners. This isn't a place to take offense to every little thing. I'll never understand why some people are so sensitive to others presenting a product or technique that might be better. If we're all so insecure in ourselves that we can't stand the thought that we're not the best, than we've got bigger issues.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I appreciate these threads because I want to know if there is a more effective way to do anything related to pen turning. I read what is posted and evaluate it based on what I'm trying to accomplish. If it doesn't sound like it would work than I don't try it. If it does sound like it would work than I do try it.

 

[GouletPens]

I may be wrong, but I thought that is exactly what we're doing here. If no one speaks up and says, "Hey, I think I've got a better way" than how would any of us improve? I mean, why do any of us do anything the way we do? Because we think it's the best way. Whether that's the best way in every circumstance with any set of tools to accomplish any goal isn't the point. I'm pretty sure that most people who have posted here are talking about what they have found works best for what they're trying to accomplish. It's up to the rest of us to evaluate that in light of our own goals and decide if our goals are in common. I thought that was the point of threads like this. To share information and increase everyone's knowledge base and help us all become more accomplished penturners. This isn't a place to take offense to every little thing. I'll never understand why some people are so sensitive to others presenting a product or technique that might be better. If we're all so insecure in ourselves that we can't stand the thought that we're not the best, than we've got bigger issues.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I appreciate these threads because I want to know if there is a more effective way to do anything related to pen turning. I read what is posted and evaluate it based on what I'm trying to accomplish. If it doesn't sound like it would work than I don't try it. If it does sound like it would work than I do try it.

So what you're saying is that this rant works better in your hands than in Cav's?:wink:

 

[wdcav1952]

I may be wrong, but I thought that is exactly what we're doing here. If no one speaks up and says, "Hey, I think I've got a better way" than how would any of us improve? I mean, why do any of us do anything the way we do? Because we think it's the best way. Whether that's the best way in every circumstance with any set of tools to accomplish any goal isn't the point. I'm pretty sure that most people who have posted here are talking about what they have found works best for what they're trying to accomplish. It's up to the rest of us to evaluate that in light of our own goals and decide if our goals are in common. I thought that was the point of threads like this. To share information and increase everyone's knowledge base and help us all become more accomplished penturners. This isn't a place to take offense to every little thing. I'll never understand why some people are so sensitive to others presenting a product or technique that might be better. If we're all so insecure in ourselves that we can't stand the thought that we're not the best, than we've got bigger issues.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I appreciate these threads because I want to know if there is a more effective way to do anything related to pen turning. I read what is posted and evaluate it based on what I'm trying to accomplish. If it doesn't sound like it would work than I don't try it. If it does sound like it would work than I do try it.

I choose not to reply to anonymous posters other than to compliment them on their signatures.