Glue for tubes / 'tool' to apply CA?

[Skewer]

So two questions here:

1. I've already had some bad luck with getting tubes glued into my blanks - I had one that the blank was too tight for the tube - i put some CA on the tube and got it about halfway in and it was locked into place. I had another that had a little empty space (trying to glue with CA) between the blank and the tube, and it flexed and chipped out. I went down to lowes and got some of the expanding Gorilla Glue, and that seems to work pretty well...takes longer to dry and gives me time to get the tube in the way i want it. I'm interested to hear - what type of glue is everyone using and why do you prefer it?

When applying a coat of CA for finishing - what do you use to apply it. A paper towel seems to absorb more glue than i get on the pen and gets the coat to thin and i end up sanding through (getting dull spots) and applying more CA. I also tried the plastic baggie over my finger, that seems to put a thicker coat on but comes out way more uneven. Either way, I end up applying CA and sanding down twice...and that kind of sucks. Any tips for me here? what do you use to apply CA, and how many coats do you apply with it?

Thanks,
Jeff

 

[monophoto]

I generally prefer polyurethane glue (eg, Gorilla brand) for tubes. It adheres to a scuffed tube very well, and expands to fill any gaps. It provides more working time than CA and doesn't require mixing like epoxy.

My approach is to smear a small bead glue on a spiral path along the length of the tube, and then twist it as it slowly insert it into the blank. I generally run a little water through the hole in the blank since polyurethane cures better in the presence of moisture. If I need to spread the glue, I have used toothpicks, a scrap of wood, or plastic coffee stirrers.

Polyurethane needs time to cure - it's pretty much solid in four or five hours, but I try to let it sit overnight.

 

[Dave Turner]

Your questions bring back fond memories. They are excellent questions and ones that I also had when I first started out.

I've found that the penmakers here each have their own tried-and-true methods, so there are no right or wrong answers. Just try the different techniques and see what works for you.

For gluing in tubes, I also started with CA and have my fair share of tubes stuck half way into the blanks. I tried the polyurethane glue (Gorilla glue), and it does a great job of filling in gaps as it expands, but I've also had several tubes loosen up inside the blanks.

What I use exclusively now is 5 minute epoxy. I just squeeze out what I need from the Part A and Part B tubes and mix them using a "craft" stick (popsicle stick) on a square of cardboard. I use empty cereal boxes and cut up about 3" x 3" squares. The smooth side works great for a disposable mixing surface. I use the handle of a cheap plastic artist paint brush to spread the epoxy on the inside of the drilled hole. Then I use the craft stick to spread the epoxy on the outside of the tube (after it's been sanded rough and the ends plugged with dental wax). I insert the tube with a back and forth twisting motion, at the same time using an in-out motion as I advance the tube. Once it's flush with the end, I scrape off the excess epoxy onto the card. Using the paint brush handle, I push the tube so it comes even with the opposite side and scrape off the excess epoxy that's pushed out onto the card. Then I use the handle to push the tube back into the blank until it's centered. This entire operation takes about 30 seconds. The blank is ready to turn in an hour or two.

If I'm fast, I can glue in 4 tubes (two pens) using one batch of epoxy. Any more than that and the epoxy gets too thick to spread. I prefer just doing two tubes at a time. Less hectic.

As far as CA application, everyone has their own favorite way. I use folded up paper towels to apply my CA. Yes, much of the CA stays on the paper towel, that's why I usually put on 12 coats. I spray with accelerator between every coat, so I can quickly put down the layers. Usually doesn't take more than 15 seconds per layer total, so all 12 layers takes about 3 to 4 minutes to apply.

If I have a very textured surface to fill, such as a corncob, I will resort to the parts baggie over my finger to get a thicker layer. Yes, you will get large ridges this way. After 3 or 4 coats, I use a skew or carbide tip to turn down the ridges till the surface is almost flat. Then apply some more CA layers and repeat until you have a nice sand-able surface.

 

[randyrls]

So two questions here:

1. i put some CA on the tube and got it about halfway in and it was locked into place. I had another that had a little empty space (trying to glue with CA) between the blank and the tube,

I find that the correct bit often ISN'T the bit suggested in the instructions. A 115 piece set of drill bits is a good investment. There are several drill bit charts in the IAP Library. Each time you use a bit, put a mark on the shank. When you have enough marks, buy that one bit in a high quality Norseman bit. I write the correct size on the instructions for that pen. Also the correct size for acrylic vs wood often isn't the same. The same bit will drill a hole about .003" to .006" larger in acrylic vs wood.

When applying a coat of CA for finishing - what do you use to apply it.

I use a rolled up of paper towel. I smear some Boiled Linseed Oil on the paper towel, then apply the CA to the blank and smooth with the paper towel.

Hope this helps...

 

[wyone]

I found when I did not use a pen vice I had a lot more issues with fit. I drill each blank on slow speed and slowly. After I am done I blow out all remaining debris. I test fit the tube, and then rough them up. I typically use thick CA as it fills any voids better and actually has a longer open time for assembly. I bought one of the tapered metal rods for inserting the tubes, and rarely use it anymore. I kept getting it stuck in the tube during install and I hated it. I put a drop or two inside the blank, then give the tube a good coat for about 1/2 of it. I slowly insert and as I do I twist back and forth and slide in and out. I pull it completely out and use a razor knife to scrape the CA that has not gone into the blank yet into the blank. I then quickly insert tube back in twisting and when I get it almost in I use the tip of my razor knife to push it down just below the end of the blank. I then use the knife to scrape any excess CA that is on the outside of the blank into the blank and that actually fills any voids at the end of the tube. I know this puts some CA into the tube, but I use a pen mill and slowly use it to clean out the tube, switching between ends and getting rid of the glue before actually using the pen mill to trim the end of the blank.

 

[Rick_G]

For gluing in tubes I have settled on epoxy, either 5 or 15 minute. I'm not usually in a hurry so it doesn't matter to me which I use. The odd stuck tube when I tried thick CA turned me away from that.

For applying CA I stick with paper towel. For the first coat with the lathe running between 150 and 300 RPM I apply a coat of thin to the top of the blank and catch it in a thickly folded towel at the bottom and spread it. The second coat I just apply a little thin CA to the paper towel and spread it. Next I apply a few drops of medium CA to the paper towel and with the lathe still running I spread it over the blank. I generally apply 6 to 8 coats of medium CA this way. My shop is in the basement and the TV is in the next room so if there is something I want to watch I will apply a coat of CA then go back and watch TV until the next commercial then apply the next coat. I do not sand between coats. When I am finished applying CA I will give it 15 or 20 minutes then wet sand with 2000 grit sandpaper and then again with 25000 grit sandpaper, then finish with plastic polish.

 

[commercialbuilder]

I use the 5 minute epoxy to glue all my tubes, I just mix small amounts so I can do a couple of blanks at a time.
I started out using paper towels for applying ca but I switched to the craft foam that is about an eight of an inch thick. My finish really improved when I started using it and you do not get amy smoke from it.

 

[Skewer]

Thanks, lots of good info - I definitely want to try the 5 minute epoxy.

 

[Dan Masshardt]

Thanks, lots of good info - I definitely want to try the 5 minute epoxy.

Epoxy is good stuff Plenty thick and bonds incredibly strong

5 min is the most common and what I've been using

However, I just picked up some 15 min from pennstate. I wanted to try it because I sometimes glue up quite a few blanks at the same time.

My current opinion is that scuffing tubes is totally unnecessary with epoxy. I stopped scuffing quite awhile ago and have not had one failure.

 

[butchf18a]

10-min epoxy, burnish tubes lightly with sand paper. Mix epoxy on Post-it note pad using round toothpics. Mix, tear off used sheet clean sheet ready for next batch. Epoxy inside of blank and tube.

Epoxy inexpensive, easy to work with, excellent hold, have yet to have a tube/blank separation failure.

Jmoicbw-bidi

 

[Rockytime]

<SNIP>I started out using paper towels for applying ca but I switched to the craft foam that is about an eight of an inch thick. My finish really improved when I started using it and you do not get amy smoke from it.

Not familiar with craft foam. Do you get it at craft stores? How is it packaged, sheets?

 

[kruzzer]

I use thick CA as well and I think I solved the "tube half way in" problem. After I drill the blank I put it in the fridge for about 10 minutes. It cools the heat caused by the drilling. It seems to give you a little more working time, not much but enough to twist the tube in...

 

[Jim Burr]

You should always check your fit before gluing. Knowing the moisture content (wood of course) is a given. A missed point by many is, are you drilling straight? Just a few thoughts.

 

[StuartCovey]

I think everyone has pretty much covered it all.
My technique as far as finishing is closest to Dave's approach of doing things (Post #3).

I use medium CA for gluing in my tubes. Just make sure the tube fits reasonably well in the blank before gluing.
I find epoxy to be too much of a hasle and gorilla glue takes too long to dry for my taste.
I have pretty much a 99% success rate with the CA.

Good Luck!

 

[Mike8850]

<SNIP>I started out using paper towels for applying ca but I switched to the craft foam that is about an eight of an inch thick. My finish really improved when I started using it and you do not get amy smoke from it.

Not familiar with craft foam. Do you get it at craft stores? How is it packaged, sheets?

I picked up my craft foam at the dollar store.
I find that I use less CA than when I used paper towels and as was mentioned get a smoother finish.
Mike

 

[dartman]

I too use epoxy for all of my acrylic blanks but use ca for wood.I mix the epoxy in the paper condiments cups you get at restaurants but I get them at a bulk food store like Gordan's. For ca finish on the lathe I keep a roll of toilet paper handy and it works great.

 

[studioseven]

I used to use gorilla glue for gluing my brass to the blank. I would glue up the blank the night before and let dry over night. Worked great in the winter. However, in the spring, I went down to my shop and found that overnight the gorilla glue had pushed the tubes right out of the blank. I suspected it was the difference in temperature that caused this. Anyone else ever experience this?

Seven

 

[scotian12]

Just to add two more pieces of advice....I find there is a tight fit on the upper barrel of the jr gents 11 in certain types of wood i.e. apple. After test fitting and if it doesn't fit throughout then I use a round rasp file to enlarge the space. As for the gorilla glue pushing out the tubes I sometimes use rubber bands to hold the barrels in. Just turn them off after. Darrell

 

[79spitfire]

I used to use gorilla glue for gluing my brass to the blank. I would glue up the blank the night before and let dry over night. Worked great in the winter. However, in the spring, I went down to my shop and found that overnight the gorilla glue had pushed the tubes right out of the blank. I suspected it was the difference in temperature that caused this. Anyone else ever experience this?

Seven

I had this happen once. I usually sit and wait for the bubbles to start, then re-position if needed.

I use the Gorilla Glue white on wood, and 5 minute epoxy on acrylics/plastics.

 

[Alchymist]

I have a short piece of 1/4" steel rod set in a wooden handle that I use to glue in the tubes. I lay down a piece of wax paper, then slide a scuffed tube over the steel rod. Holding the handle in my left hand, I hold the tube about 1/4" up the rod from the handle. As I apply the CA, I rotate the tube on the rod with my index finger.

The CA is applied liberally on the tube except for the last 1/4" or so where my finger holds it. I then slide the blank over the tube, rotating it, until it's about 3/8" or so from being fully inserted. Then I slide the blank from the rod and press the exposed tube end down on the wax paper until the tube is flush with the blank. As the blank is slid down the tube, it form a small "wall" of CA ahead if it, and this coats the last 1/4" of the tube as it's pressed against the wax paper.

As to applying the finish, I use a small piece of old undershirt folded to a blunt point. Lathe is set to slow speed. Just 1 drop in the cloth puts a nice coat on the blank. Add another drop and do the other blank. Let dry a few seconds and repeat. Do this as many times as desired, sanding lightly between every two coats with 400 grit. Buff the last coat with brown paper ( grocery bag). Change the spot on the cloth between every two coat application. I also hit the blank with the brown paper before the first coat - amazing the sanding dust it picks up from a "clean" blank.

All this is on wood pens, don't do acrylics.

 

[Fish30114]

If you like Gorilla Glue, and have a problem with the expansion pushing out your tubes, just put a piece of sacrificial 2x4 on either end and put a quick clamp on the ends. Works easy, fast and great.