To Glue or Not To Glue??

[papNal]

As a rank "ammeture" I have gotten several books on pen making and watched scads of videos,however today I was looking at a friends book called PENS FROM THE WOOD LATHE.It's a good info book for learners,but the author assembles his pens using epoxy on everything,nibs, clips,bands etc..unless I mess up something about the only thing I glue is the center band on the tendon.Am I asking for trouble later on?The author thinks that pressed in parts will become loose and cause problems.Seems to me that gluing is a one shot deal,ain't no disassembly tools ever gonna be needed. Thanks for any thoughts and comments before I change my ways.pap

 

[bitshird]

Perhaps the writer was smoking something odd in his pipe that day. I guess if some fool does abnormal things with a pen, like punch holes in beer cans, pry's paint can lids off, or uses his pen for a line up punch putting a transmission back into his 1949 Willys Jeep or uses real garbage kits, or starts the parts in cockeyed then sure they could come loose.
Not to say there arent some kits that have known issues like the cap finial on Barons and there has been some trouble with Junior Gents of late, but the distributors usually get these straightened out quickly.

 

[Chief Hill]

Perhaps the writer was smoking something odd in his pipe that day. I guess if some fool does abnormal things with a pen, like punch holes in beer cans, pry's paint can lids off, or uses his pen for a line up punch putting a transmission back into his 1949 Willys Jeep or uses real garbage kits, or starts the parts in cockeyed then sure they could come loose.
Not to say there arent some kits that have known issues like the cap finial on Barons and there has been some trouble with Junior Gents of late, but the distributors usually get these straightened out quickly.

LOL...
I agree 100%

I NEVER glue all the components together. Even if I did I would never use epoxy. It's like using a cocking gun to apply to material ( messy ). Everything is "friction fit". It's hard enough taking pens apart lest doing it with glue. The only time I have used CA glue is for the center band in a El grande pen. And that's because the friction fit sucks and can be easily pulled apart by hand. Just press fit everything together and leave the glue alone. Unless something really needs it because it's loose or falling apart.

 

[mick]

Perhaps the writer was smoking something odd in his pipe that day. I guess if some fool does abnormal things with a pen, like punch holes in beer cans, pry's paint can lids off, or uses his pen for a line up punch putting a transmission back into his 1949 Willys Jeep or uses real garbage kits, or starts the parts in cockeyed then sure they could come loose.
Not to say there arent some kits that have known issues like the cap finial on Barons and there has been some trouble with Junior Gents of late, but the distributors usually get these straightened out quickly.

I hate to disagree with a fellow pen turner :biggrin: but it's been my experience lately that pens I've had for awhile and carry back and forth to outdoor shows are starting to show some signs of loosening at the finial or the nib.....oh not all of them. Like Ken says the Baron is famous for the finial loosening up. another that comes to mind is the Flat Top American. I put one together tonight and had to glue in the finial. I've had these pushed out by the tension of the spring on a hot day. I had slims in the past that had to have everything glued in....quality control was asleep the day those tubes were made! I'm decided in the last couple of months to just eliminate the problem and use 5 minute epoxy on everything. It holds great and IF you need to dissemble it's just a little more effort to knock things apart. I'd rather take the extra time this takes and not have a customer call when their pen comes apart. BSTS

 

[rherrell]

Use a little of the blue Loctite or Permatex. I like the gel myself because it's easier to apply, just a little on a toothpick applied to the inside of the tube does the trick. The big advantage over glue is it won't hurt the finish and you can still disassemble the pen if you need to.:wink:

 

[mickr]

I came to realize that seasonal changes had some bearing on how loose or tight the pen parts stayed..and I had customers from arid regions and some from humid...I use loctite...wood expands & contracts and the parts are going to get tighter & looser...if the pens are for you..don't do a thing...if they are being sold DO SOMETHING

 

[jkeithrussell]

I agree with the author, but I only glue the major components -- nibs and finial assemblies.

BTW: you can still disassemble the pens with transfer punches.

 

[dexter0606]

I've had some issues recently with the Flat Top American kits. Now when I assemble one of these a I always glue (CA) in the nib and the twist holder into the barrel. Don't do anything with the cap though. Chances are that you would never have to disassemble the barrel.Jeff
BTW - Does anyone know why the text in my posts ends up running together like this? I put in spaces, double space lines, put my name on a separate line and this is how it shows up. And I don't have the "button" to add pictures.Hmmmm!

 

[GouletPens]

Not to burst your bubble, but since someone has written a book on pen turning and uses epoxy to glue in parts, they're doing it because they've made a lot more pens than you and there's a darn good reason for it. There is most certainly a good reason for it, which is that if you want your pens to last in the condition you sell or give them to someone, then certain parts, especially on certain kits, need to be glued. If you use CA, make sure it's a thick gel CA b/c a thin CA might squeeze out when you press the parts together and it's a beotch to get it off the hardware. The bad thing about using CA to glue components together is that CA 'off gasses' for 24 hours as it cures. What this means is if you are gluing the clip and finial on a screw-cap pen, you have to leave the cap off the pen for 24 hours after assembling it, otherwise if you glue and assemble the pen and just immediately stick the nib end into the cap, the off gassing will leave a chalky white powder on your nib section that's a nuissance to get off, especially if you're doing 100 pens at once, DAMHIKT.

Because of the messy squeeze-out and the off-gassing, epoxy is the preferred method of gluing parts during assembly. Once you've been making pens for a while and you've tried all these different things for yourself, you'll see that things like gluing in parts do take longer but result in a better end product, which is important for your reputation if you are selling pens on a long-term basis. But if it's $12 slims you're selling at a flea market or a gift for your 10-year old niece, don't bother gluing.

 

[mrcook4570]

I completely agree with the author. All press fit parts will eventually work loose.

However, I strongly encourage you to continue to rely on the press fit and not glue the parts in place. I have lost count of the number of times someone has seen me at a show, brought a pen with parts that are either missing or beginning to loosen, and asked if I could repair the pen. Why, yes, of course I can and my work is guaranteed. I now have one of your customers :biggrin:

 

[mick]

Because of the messy squeeze-out and the off-gassing, epoxy is the preferred method of gluing parts during assembly. Once you've been making pens for a while and you've tried all these different things for yourself, you'll see that things like gluing in parts do take longer but result in a better end product, which is important for your reputation if you are selling pens on a long-term basis. But if it's $12 slims you're selling at a flea market or a gift for your 10-year old niece, don't bother gluing.

Gotta disagree again. If you're concerned with your reputation then any pen you make, whether it's that 12 dollar slimline for a fleamarket or that pink flamingo homebrew you made your niece, it still needs to be to the same standards you hold you other pens to. On a related note.People often ask me why I take the time and put the same finish on a slimlime as I do on a Statesman or an Emperor?
My answer is simple, Because I made it and it's as much a reflection of what kind of penmaker I am as my more expensive pens.
You don't need two sets of standards when it comes to gluing your pens together either. Glue any possible problem spots and then you'll know the pens not coming back! This comes from almost 5 years of making and selling pens. Customers often remember the bad things about an artist or craftsman but seldom the good things.

 

[Daniel]

Other than the occasional loose fitting part. the only problem I have with pressed parts working loose is the finial. the clip acts as a pry bar over time and they always seem to come loose. I have more problems with threaded parts staying in place. I personally do not like the "Loose" feel of the slimline center band. Basically my pens are hand made one at a time. Part of that process is paying enough attention to each step of each pen to make a decision in regard to it. I also would not use epoxy simply because of the mess factor. I also resort to applying glue with various methods as needed such as a toothpick or even a needle point. In many ways every pen I make is it's own adventure requiring decisions along the way.

 

[ed4copies]

I believe "Pens from the Wood Lathe" is about a decade old.

There have been changes in the kits, since then. So, anything you read in that book would have applied to the conditions at the time. They may NOT apply to all of today's components.

Experience is your best teacher. IF you are making pens with "known problems", decide what your policy will be. Fix in assembly or give great guarantee.

Either way has it's advantages.

 

[BigguyZ]

Wow, I hadn't glues any of the pens i sold. I haven't been selling for long, but some of the responses makes me rethink not gluing pens... I'll have to re-evaluate.

 

[MesquiteMan]

Keep gluing them in. Gluing the parts together helped me get a $6k order! I had a fellow contact me about a cactus pen he bought from some show that the plating was wearing and the cap threads were stripped. This was a Jr. Statesman too. I did not make the pen since I don't do shows but since he did not know who originally made it for him, I told him to send it to me and I would replace the parts just for the cost of the kit.

Well, I got the pen and the person who made the pen glued everything in and I could not get all of the parts out not matter what I tried. I used center punches and even tried freezing the pen to see if that would make it brittle. Nothing worked at all.

I ended up contacting the fellow and rather then tell him I could make a new one at $xx amount (might look like bait and switch) I told him I would honor my original commitment and make the new pen just for the cost of the kit.

He was so impressed that he ordered $6k worth of pens and boxes from me! I might not have got that order if the parts had been press fit in like they should be, IMO!

 

[GouletPens]

I think this is more of a testament to superior customer service. Congrats on that, Curtis. These days you have to make superior products and provide excellent service if you want to lead the pack. The pen-turning market is getting more and more crowded every day and you have to make every effort possible to give people the most for their money, IMHO.

Keep gluing them in. Gluing the parts together helped me get a $6k order! I had a fellow contact me about a cactus pen he bought from some show that the plating was wearing and the cap threads were stripped. This was a Jr. Statesman too. I did not make the pen since I don't do shows but since he did not know who originally made it for him, I told him to send it to me and I would replace the parts just for the cost of the kit.

Well, I got the pen and the person who made the pen glued everything in and I could not get all of the parts out not matter what I tried. I used center punches and even tried freezing the pen to see if that would make it brittle. Nothing worked at all.

I ended up contacting the fellow and rather then tell him I could make a new one at $xx amount (might look like bait and switch) I told him I would honor my original commitment and make the new pen just for the cost of the kit.

He was so impressed that he ordered $6k worth of pens and boxes from me! I might not have got that order if the parts had been press fit in like they should be, IMO!

 

[John Eberly]

Glue or not

I tend to use a little dab of CA on the clip when I assemble a pen. The finial friction fit is not usually tight enough to keep the clip from twisting. Clips will almost always score a CA finish if they rotate.

Glue that clip down at least.

 

[papNal]

Thanks everyone,GREAT replys!!pap