glue combo

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penbros

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i know some people here on this forum use polyurethane glue to glue the tubes in the blanks. I dont like to wait so long, i like to get to the fun part as quick as possible. so i use CA glue on each end of the tubes and cover most of the tube(that being the middle)in polyurethane glue. while you are turning the ca has already set and the polyurethand is setting. that way u dont have to sacrafice speed for strength.
 
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JimGo

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How many have you done this way? P/U glue usually needs a little more "room" betwen the blank and the tube because it foams; I'm surprised that they're both holding for you without any major blow-ups.
 

penbros

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i used this method 2 times so im not completley sure about it. i like it though because before i just used ca and sometimes when my brother and i ( happens to my bro more often[^]) turned the pens the tubes would come out when turning and i thought a poly ca combo will be ultimate hold. (ultimate glue the name of the poly glue i use)

do you mean the wood bulging up after the pen is done with for a while?
 

fiferb

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Why don't you glue up enough to have some to turn later? I usually have several in different stages of preparation. Kind of like an assembly line with different stations. Measure and cut, drilling, gluing, squaring, turning. That way at any time I'm working on something, even if the glue or finish needs to dry or set.
 

JimGo

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What I meant was that poly glue likes to bubble and expand. If it doesn't get to expand, in my experience (and I'm sure others will correct me if their experience is different) the poly glue doesn't hold as well. By contrast, CA, even thick CA, doesn't like big gaps. If you look at the spec's for thick CA, the "gap filling" ability is limited to only a few thousandths of an inch. So, if you're drilling a hole that's small enough for CA to get a good bond, it's probably too small for poly glue to get a good bond, and conversely, if you're drilling a hole that allows the poly glue to get a good bond, it's probably too big for CA to get a good bond.

That leads to my next point...blow-outs. One of the big problems that I experienced early on (and still do on occasion) is a blow-out. That's where I'm turning everything down, and all of a sudden part of the blank just goes flying off the lathe. In many cases, the break goes all the way down to the tube, and there's a very pretty, shiny piece of brass staring at me. The reason this happens, in my experience, is that I had a little catch, and not all of the blank was glued to the tube properly. So, I have this piece of material spinning at at least several hundred RPM's, and some of it is reinforced with a relatively strong piece of metal, while other parts of it are not. When the catch happens, the parts that don't have the metal reinforcement have to withstand the force of the catch all by themselves, and some times the catch hits the material with more force than the material can handle. And that's when...BAM...instant projectile.

Does this happen all the time? No. I've improved my glueing technique significantly since I started. I also keep my tools sharper, and I've learned to minimize the number of catches. Of all of these, though, for me the most important was getting a good glue-up. With good glue, the materials (woods, back then) that I turned could withstand the extra force of a catch on a dull tool.

If I only glued the outside edges of the blank to the tube, would that be sufficient? Maybe - it depends on whether I get a catch, how sharp my tools are, how bad the catch is, how brittle the material is, how much material is left when I get the catch, etc. But that's not a chance I'm willing to take, so I try to get really good glue coverage.
 

blodal

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Jim,

What did you differently as you "improved your gluing technique"?

Also, you said you learned to minimize the number of catches. Please explain how.

I have had a few blow-outs and would like to improve my techniques as well.

Thanks.
 

JimGo

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Bill,
My technique varies some depending on whether I'm using CA or Poly glue. My glue choice depends on whether I'm impatient (typically) or if I am doing the drilling and gluing one day, and the turning another. If I'm impatient, I use medium or thick CA; otherwise I like poly glue (Gorilla). After I drill out the blanks, I put some DNA on a Q-tip and wipe out the inside of the blank to get as much of the dust out of it as possible. Some times this needs to be repeated two or three times. Then I scuff up the tubes using some cheap sanding pads I got at Harbor Freight - the coarse pads are pretty rough, and do a nice job. If I'm using poly, I then slowly breathe into the tubes, trying to keep my breath warm - poly likes a little moisture to help it cure, and this is usually sufficient, at least where I live. If it's REALLY dry that day, I might do the Q-tip routine again, this time with just a TOUCH of water. The idea is NOT to saturate the inside of the tube, but rather just to add to the available humidity. It doesn't take much, as evidenced by the fact that merely breathing into the tube is usually sufficient. Then I add the glue to the inside of the blank, using another Q-tip to spread it around as evenly as possible. I add glue to the tube, and spread it around as evenly as possible there, too. Then I insert the tube about 1/2 to 3/4 of the way into the blank and twist at least 1/2 turn. I pull the tube out, turn it around, and insert it approximately 1/2 way into the other end of the blank. Another 1/2 to full turn, then I slide the blank into place. I then lay the blank on a piece of waxed paper and, if it's poly, I do my best to make sure everything is level, this way the tube is less likely to travel during the curing process. If I'm using CA, I spritz with a little activator, this way it sets sooner. I know that the activator creates a weaker bond than if I just let it cure on its own, but I've had thick CA that took FOREVER to cure (at least as measured against my patience level).

As for the catches, well, that's just a matter of getting a feel for the use of the tools, and recognizing that I don't need to force the tool, especially a sharp tool, into the material I'm cutting. I still occasionally smack the tool into the blanks as I'm trying to reposition everything (I'm a bit clumsy), and that's where most of my catches come from these days. That, or jumping as a spider drops down from the ceiling onto my shoulder, or as a mosquito takes a nice little bite of my neck!
 

penbros

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lol, i havent had a spider in the shop yet. this is funny. my brother always gets a catch. im serious hell go through 3 pens with a catch and have 1 without a catch. He always uses the roughing gouge. i kinna feel bad for him.[:D][V]. Ill teach him to use the skew next time he comes over.
 

vick

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If i may suggest I found 90 second epoxy gives the best of both worlds. I get all the strength I need and can turn in 5 to 10 minutes.
 

JimGo

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The "what glue is best" topic has been kicked around several times. Just to clarify, I'm not suggesting one is better than the other; merely conveying which one(s) I use. Mike, 90 second epoxy sounds interesting, but when I'm impatient, 5-10 minutes is too long! [:D]
 
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