Frustrated with slim mechanisms

[SkewedUp]

Recently it seems like the quality of PSI slim mechanisms has really gone downhill. I'd like to find some good quality replacements if anyone knows where they might be available.

Anyone know what happened with the slim twist mechanisms? Change in suppliers? Recent ones I've bought seem very soft and do not lock into place when fully extended. I tried one from an older kit and the difference is very noticeable.

Thanks for any recommendations you may have.

 

[RDH79]

I sure wish I knew. I just replaced a mech for a customer that bought from me around Christmas. As she wrote it would work its way in.Hope this doesnt come back to haunt me for future sales. I still have slippage problems every now and them but I have been dimpling the tubes before i glue them in.

 

[DurocShark]

Good idea on the dimpling.

 

[JerrySambrook]

Doug and Rich,
If you are buying kits from different suppliers, you cannot usually be sure you can use tubes from one supplier, and components from another.

There are still at least three different wall thicknesses of tubes, and three different transmissions on the market.

This is generally one of the ways you get ill-fitting components.

The best way to minimize this is to keep your kit and the tubes that came with that exact kit matched up.

Another little item to look for is damage (scoring) to the tubes during some phase of construction.

Jerry

 

[soligen]

I rarely do 7mm kits for this same reason.

I've noticed that the 7mm transmissions from Woodcraft seem better than others (Same as Berea, I think). I've not tried every vendor, so others may be good too. Now I rarely do 7mm kits, but when I do, I get it from woodcraft. I do so few that the price premium is not an issue, and worth it for the better parts. When the Euros went on sale, I bought several to stock up, and still have them.

I also bought a transmission 5 pack from woodcraft to replace in other kits I have, Sad thing is that the transmissions bought this way cost me about the same as the whole original kit - but the original kits had unacceptable transmissions.

 

[arw01]

Those 5 packs of transmissions are expensive. you can buy 5 slimline kits from AS for under $15.00 with shipping, which is about $2.00 more than you can buy just the transmissions from Woodcraft.

Are the transmissions from wood n whimsies the PSI ones? I've seen a couple that sell transmissions separately, but never asked where they come from.

 

[ed4copies]

I am pretty confident that you are seeing the industry trend toward "cost reduction" in kits.

Until about 2004, quality was consistent. Then, some products became available from Chinese manufacturers. I was one of the "early adapters" who wanted to see the cost of kits come down, so I bought LOTS of slimlines that I knew were Chinese made. They bent as they were assembled, the tubes were not consistent, they did not "click" into a position, but I continued to buy them, hoping that, with experience, their quality would improve.

I believe it HAS IMPROVED. HOWEVER, the quality is still not as good as the transmissions made by the Taiwanese sources.

When we decided Exotics would sell pen kits, I had several lengthy conversations with industry sources. Jim, president of Berea, assured me he was going to continue his relationship with his Taiwanese partner and not experiment with Chinese. (Jim was in the industry in the early days and remembers when ALL transmissions had problems and tolerances were all over the map--he has lived the "this doesn't work right" experience and did not see a reason to repeat it.!!)

So, that is why I chose to handle Berea's kits. They are consistent! You know what you are getting!

Currently, my slimlines (through Exotics) are NOT Berea. I realize that most penmakers buy price. So, we are selling competitively-priced slims, with some components made in China--I suspect.

I will be adding Berea slimlines in the next 90 days--pen and pencil. Main reason is people want "sets" for the holidays and I don't want to sell Chinese pencils.

For those who will scream this is an ad, let me add this:
I buy tens of thousands of dollars in pen kits. I can buy from ANYONE, and do. So, if I HANDLE the product, I will tell you if it is the BEST, or a compromise between quality and price. Our slims are compromises. I will soon be stocking Berea's, with which I have NEVER had a problem, in 10 years of selling at shows. That is not advertising, that is relaying my experiences----BEFORE I was a part of ExoticBlanks.

You are all giving your experiences, I see no reason why my experience is not equally valid. Those who disagree, feel free to PM me.

 

[SkewedUp]

Thanks for the replies.

I can order the 5 pack from Woodcraft and probably will, but I would like to be sure they are going to be what I'm looking for. The fit of transmission and tube is not a problem for me, but the mechanism is just not the same as it used to be and I would be more than willing to pay a little extra for a pen kit that I know is going to have the same transmission as the PSI slims used to have. I found an old package of 7mm slimline transmissions that I bought years ago and tried one of them. They work great and on the package it clearly shows that they were made in Taiwan. That package was probably purchased at least 2 years ago, but it gives me hope that if I can just determine where I can purchase Taiwan manufactured transmissions then I can solve the problem. That may be overly optimistic though.

I have a few premium slims that I make and really want to get the old type transmission for these pens - the new ones just feel soft and do not have a positive stop when extended. With the old transmissions, you can actually see the ink refill retract just a tiny bit when the mechanism is twisted fully and locked in.

I'll call around today and see if I can find out which supplier's transmissions are made in Taiwan...I had just hoped that someone else had already figured this out and could save me the hassle.

Thanks again.

 

[penmaker1967]

the only problem i have had with slim lines is the ecomny gold kits from psi but they sent replacement trans for the ones that one bad and did not have any trouble wwith the replacements.

 

[ghostrider]

I'm not to fond of the slimlines, and actually started with Cigars because of that feeling. However, I decided to buy slimlines because I thought they might make good practice because they were so cheap.

Needless to say, I look for the cheapest ones I can find... Right Now. When I fell like my skill level has "Got there", I'll may not even do slimlines altogether (Don't know yet).

If I ever start selling them, I can envision buying quality Slimlines to fill that market nich (some people actually like slimmer pens). That's when I would be more discerning with the quality of the kits.

As it is, the one's I'm making right now certainly are curious, because most people work the mechanism and comment on how smooth and nice it is (while I'm thinking it's the cheapest one I could find).

Another aspect of this topic is this: In reading these forums, I've notice some people who sell pens that apparently would rather not make any slimlines. If the Higher end pen makers stay away from the slimline, then I would think that it would reduce the demand for a higher quality slimline kit.

 

[zig613]

So, that is why I chose to handle Berea's kits. They are consistent! You know what you are getting!

I can attest to the quality of the Berea 7mm transmissions. I have made over 200 Berea streamlines over the past 2-3 years and haven't had a single problem with the transmission.

IMHO and experience, you get want you pay for... stick with the better manufacturers, you may pay alittle more but the quality is generally also much better.

Wade

 

[azamiryou]

I can attest to the quality of the Berea 7mm transmissions.

Are Berea 7mm transmissions available apart from kits?

 

[ed4copies]

I can attest to the quality of the Berea 7mm transmissions.

Are Berea 7mm transmissions available apart from kits?

I don't believe so.

Remember, part of making these work is having a good fit with the brass tube. Berea views a set of components as a SET, not tiny pieces that can be intermingled without regard to size.

I do KNOW that the 7mm brass tubes vary from one manufacturer to another. So a Berea tranny may NOT work right in someone else's tube.

 

[Smitty37]

Somewhat agree

I am pretty confident that you are seeing the industry trend toward "cost reduction" in kits.

Until about 2004, quality was consistent. Then, some products became available from Chinese manufacturers. I was one of the "early adapters" who wanted to see the cost of kits come down, so I bought LOTS of slimlines that I knew were Chinese made. They bent as they were assembled, the tubes were not consistent, they did not "click" into a position, but I continued to buy them, hoping that, with experience, their quality would improve.

I believe it HAS IMPROVED. HOWEVER, the quality is still not as good as the transmissions made by the Taiwanese sources.

When we decided Exotics would sell pen kits, I had several lengthy conversations with industry sources. Jim, president of Berea, assured me he was going to continue his relationship with his Taiwanese partner and not experiment with Chinese. (Jim was in the industry in the early days and remembers when ALL transmissions had problems and tolerances were all over the map--he has lived the "this doesn't work right" experience and did not see a reason to repeat it.!!)

So, that is why I chose to handle Berea's kits. They are consistent! You know what you are getting!

Currently, my slimlines (through Exotics) are NOT Berea. I realize that most penmakers buy price. So, we are selling competitively-priced slims, with some components made in China--I suspect.

I will be adding Berea slimlines in the next 90 days--pen and pencil. Main reason is people want "sets" for the holidays and I don't want to sell Chinese pencils.

For those who will scream this is an ad, let me add this:
I buy tens of thousands of dollars in pen kits. I can buy from ANYONE, and do. So, if I HANDLE the product, I will tell you if it is the BEST, or a compromise between quality and price. Our slims are compromises. I will soon be stocking Berea's, with which I have NEVER had a problem, in 10 years of selling at shows. That is not advertising, that is relaying my experiences----BEFORE I was a part of ExoticBlanks.

You are all giving your experiences, I see no reason why my experience is not equally valid. Those who disagree, feel free to PM me.

The question now is when does "Made in Taiwan" mean "Made in Taiwan" our Taiwanese vendors face the same competitive problems with China that we do. Perhaps more so since they are in direct competition with the same items in the same market.

One of their approaches to this problem is to oursource some of the manufacturing to the mainland. But, they have the same problem wiith outsourcing that everyone else has, the supplier not great with statistical quality control methods, machine tools that might be just a tad less precise than they should be, factories with the indoor environment not as well controlled anda labor force that is not as highly trained and skilled as at home. Hence today "Made in Taiwan" can mean made in China.

I also know of at least two Taiwanese vendors (both of whom will supply me if I want to go that way) one is, quite frankly producing better quality. One of them is the source for one of the big companies "made in Taiwan kits - it is the one that in my opinion produces the lesser quality stuff.

 

[Smitty37]

In my own defense

Since I am a seller of lower (probably lowest) priced slimline kits and I also sell 7mm replacement transmissions I will say this. If there is a "general problem' out there with 7mm transmissions my customers are not finding it- or if they are I have the kindest customers in the world, who don't complain and keep coming back.

 

[sbwertz]

I bought transmisions from smitty's pen works and they have been very reliable and were inexpensive

LOL, I posted this before I saw Smitty's post.

 

[SkewedUp]

OK, here is what I have learned today by spending a lot of time on the phone and maybe it will be helpful to others...maybe not.

Woodcraft and Woodturningz offer the transmissions separately from a kit. Berea does not want to, but they were willing to sell me a few so I can try them and see if they will work. After a lengthy phone conversation with Mark at PSI and another with Fritz at Woodturningz, it looks like the part I need from PSI is ZPK7-05A. Penn State will only sell a maximum of 10 of those mechanisms at a time.

Somewhere along the way during my conversations with these guys today I suddenly realized why nobody wants to sell components separately. They make sure that a set of components work together in a kit but they cannot guarantee that they will work with other kits. I think the bottom line is that they really don't want to have to deal with the headaches of trying to match up the components from different manufacturers. That makes sense to me because you don't want a customer to be mad at you because you sold them a part that does not work as it is supposed to and you have no control over what other components it is going to be used with.

I also learned today that it is pretty complicated to try to figure out who's components belong to who, and where they come from. PSI is a wholesaler who sells to Penn State Industries Woodturning and Woodturningz and a lot of other retailers as well. But Woodturningz also buys some kits from other places and PSI sure does not want to be associated with those other kits. But the different platings that are available come from different suppliers so some kits come from PSI and some come from somewhere else.

I like the PSI fancy slimline kits but I also like some of the platings that Woodturningz has that are not offered by Penn State Industries. Will the transmissions I just ordered work with both types of pen kits? I don't know yet but will find out soon.

I have made hundreds of slimline kits over the last several years, and I sell more of those than any other pen kit, so I have to get this resolved one way or another. I would gladly pay more for better quality components, but it seems that my preference in pen styles, platings, and other components do not all come in a single high quality pen kit...no matter how much I'm willing to pay.

I'm still frustrated, but maybe I'm finally on the path to finding a solution. At least now I think I have identified the part number of the twist mechanism that I want to use and now just have to find someone willing to sell them to me...whether as part of a kit or separately.

 

[Sylvanite]

In making and selling rifle cartridge pen kits, I've gone through thousands of 7mm transmissions from various vendors. I have seen several design differences, and quality issues. There was a time when I was thowing away 10%-20% of the kit transmissions. All brands have generally gotten better, but i still have a 1%-2% fallout rate.

Some of the best individual transmissions I've gotten recently are the ones that Smitty sells. I buy them 100 at a time and often use them instead of the ones that come in kits.

I hope that helps,
Eric

 

[Smitty37]

Another reason

OK, here is what I have learned today by spending a lot of time on the phone and maybe it will be helpful to others...maybe not.

Woodcraft and Woodturningz offer the transmissions separately from a kit. Berea does not want to, but they were willing to sell me a few so I can try them and see if they will work. After a lengthy phone conversation with Mark at PSI and another with Fritz at Woodturningz, it looks like the part I need from PSI is ZPK7-05A. Penn State will only sell a maximum of 10 of those mechanisms at a time.

Somewhere along the way during my conversations with these guys today I suddenly realized why nobody wants to sell components separately. They make sure that a set of components work together in a kit but they cannot guarantee that they will work with other kits. I think the bottom line is that they really don't want to have to deal with the headaches of trying to match up the components from different manufacturers. That makes sense to me because you don't want a customer to be mad at you because you sold them a part that does not work as it is supposed to and you have no control over what other components it is going to be used with.

I also learned today that it is pretty complicated to try to figure out who's components belong to who, and where they come from. PSI is a wholesaler who sells to Penn State Industries Woodturning and Woodturningz and a lot of other retailers as well. But Woodturningz also buys some kits from other places and PSI sure does not want to be associated with those other kits. But the different platings that are available come from different suppliers so some kits come from PSI and some come from somewhere else.

I like the PSI fancy slimline kits but I also like some of the platings that Woodturningz has that are not offered by Penn State Industries. Will the transmissions I just ordered work with both types of pen kits? I don't know yet but will find out soon.

I have made hundreds of slimline kits over the last several years, and I sell more of those than any other pen kit, so I have to get this resolved one way or another. I would gladly pay more for better quality components, but it seems that my preference in pen styles, platings, and other components do not all come in a single high quality pen kit...no matter how much I'm willing to pay.

I'm still frustrated, but maybe I'm finally on the path to finding a solution. At least now I think I have identified the part number of the twist mechanism that I want to use and now just have to find someone willing to sell them to me...whether as part of a kit or separately.

Let me give you another reason. I stock right now slimline kits in 9 platings my supplier offers it in at least 12 more. That means to carry parts for all the slimlines just the plated parts (clip, cap, band and tip) comes to about 84 different parts and that is just one style of slimline from one manufacturer. It is far cheaper for me to send a new kit to replace a failed one then to stock all those spares - regardless of what the failure is.