fountain pen nib question

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Milpaul

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It seems most of our fountain pens have a German iridium nib. I have had some customers ask about gold nibs. I am wondering what is the difference between gold and iridium nibs. Is this a personal preference or are there definitely advantages/disadvantages for both. Any info or links would be appreciated.
 
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PenWorks

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This is a good start, Richard has a wealth of information on his web site.

http://www.richardspens.com/?page=sales/newp_nib.htm
 

ashaw

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Paul
First for all iridium is the small ball of material at the bottom end of the nib. It is used for two reasons. 1. reduces the ware on the nib. 2. Produces a smooth writing surface.

All of our nibs are steel with either gold plating or platinum and gold plating.

A gold nib depending on the K size will give a more flexible feel.

The steel nib will not flex much.

I really is the customer preference as to which material he likes.

You can get gold nibs from Anthony (aka penworks) or from Bexley. Note Bexley nibs are over a 100.00 and are 18k gold. They do offer a number of widths.

Alan
 

gerryr

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I read an article several months ago about the "iridium" tips on FP nibs. Unfortunately, I can't remember where I found it. Anyway, the authors did a fair amount of research and talked to companies like Bock and concluded that nib manufacturers don't use iridium anymore and haven't for quite some time. If you look at the description of the kit pen nibs on nibs.com, you will notice that the description makes no mention of iridium as a tipping material and these are 14K nibs, not the inexpensive steel nibs that come in the kits. Given the high cost of iridium, I find it highly doubtful that the steel nibs contain any. I will try to find the article again and post a link here if I can find it.

Quicker than I thought.
http://www.nibs.com/article4.html
also another article
http://www.nibs.com/article5.html
 

ed4copies

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http://nibs.com/article5.html

Nice starting point.

Also be aware our nibs are probably not MADE in Germany and probably have NO iridium - Don't believe everything you read on your nib.
 

DCBluesman

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Here's a great article written by a guy who toured the Bock nib factory. Short and interesting. http://www.thesouthernscribe.com/PenArticles/Nibs.htm
 

Milpaul

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It looks like I have some reading to do tonight! Thanks for all the info, you are all a fountain of knowledge (sorry I couldn't resist [:D])
 

PenWorks

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You can find advantages & disadvantages in both gold & steel nibs. Probablly the biggest difference would be gold has perceved value over steel.
 

ed4copies

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Several years ago he had a LONG article on taking iridium nibs to an electron microscope and the percentage they found, etc.

One of the most interesting facts he presented then is that the nibmakers had stamped "iridium" on nibs BEFORE there was a test for iridium - so they could not POSSIBLY have known if their nib HAD ANY!!

I have used this information many times in discussing nibs with customers, comes as quite a shock to most!!

[:D][:D]

Also most of our nibs are MADE in China or Taiwan - stamping "Germany" does not mean they are MADE there!!!
Amazing what you can learn, isn't it???
 

gerryr

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Originally posted by PenWorks
<br />You can find advantages & disadvantages in both gold & steel nibs. Probablly the biggest difference would be gold has perceved value over steel.

I don't perceive that gold is more valuable than steel. Wanna trade a pound of steel for a pound of gold?[:D][;)]
 

DCBluesman

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Charles - I have a few left from the first order that were made for me. The second order is in production (from what I'm told) and should ship to me late next week.
 

Randy_

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Originally posted by DCBluesman
<br />Oh, and iridium is rarely used for the tip anymore. [8D]

"Iridium: A small pellet or ball of a very hard alloy, welded to the tip of the nib and then ground and polished to shape, to provide a smooth, durable point. Although “iridium†is a common term for the tipping material, modern tipping materials rarely contain the actual element iridium; the most common element used is ruthenium, with admixture of such other metals as osmium and platinum."
 

Randy_

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Originally posted by ashaw
<br />.....All of our nibs are steel with either gold plating or platinum and gold plating.....

Alan is essentially correct; but for one minor exception. The limited edition Emperor from CSUSA comes with an 18k gold nib.
 

Randy_

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Originally posted by ed4copies
<br />.....Also most of our nibs are MADE in China or Taiwan.....

I'm sure that Ed's statement is correct; but I would point out that many of the fountain pens sold by CSUSA come with nibs that are made in Germany!!
 

DCBluesman

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Originally posted by Randy_
<br />
Originally posted by ed4copies
<br />.....Also most of our nibs are MADE in China or Taiwan.....

I'm sure that Ed's statement is correct; but I would point out that many of the fountain pens sold by CSUSA come with nibs that are made in Germany!!

I'm not sure where your information comes from, but it is inaccurate. While the steel nibs say "IRIDIUM POINT GERMANY" they are made in Taiwan and Mainland China.
 

Randy_

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Originally posted by DCBluesman
<br />....I'm not sure where your information comes from, but it is inaccurate. While the steel nibs say "IRIDIUM POINT GERMANY" they are made in Taiwan and Mainland China.

Lou: Maybe the better question is to ask where "YOU" get your information?? Mine came directly from the CSUSA catalog!! To quote from the description of their Ligero kit:
"The fountain pen features a top quality German-made two-tone nib with iridium point while the rollerball includes a ceramic tipped Schmidt cartridge for smooth, effortless writing."
I will acknowledge that not all of their kits claim to have a German-made nib; but many of them do.

Perhaps it is your information that is inaccurate??
 

ed4copies

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Randy,

It's an interesting question.

Do you have any Ligeros???

Is the nib any different from the others, stamped simply "Germany"? Do they SAY "made in Germany"? Do they come in a bag that is clearly labeled China or Taiwan? (You see the law says the point of origin HAS to be on the package OR the product.)

Or could CSUSA's description be faulty. As in the "pecker head" point that was not announced accurately?

I honestly don't know the answer to these questions, but I question everything I read - because CSUSA wrote it does not mean it emanated from an infallible source!!![:0][:0][:0][:0][:0]
 

bgray

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Randy....the CSUSA quote from the catalog...

//"The fountain pen features a top quality German-made two-tone nib with iridium point while the rollerball includes a ceramic tipped Schmidt cartridge for smooth, effortless writing."//

My understanding is that both the Berea nibs, as well as CSUSA nibs are all made by the Shanghai Pen company in China...regardless of what is stamped on the nib.

Also, I don't always get a two-tone nib from them, and secondly, there is no iridium on these tips. The quote is inaccurate in three places, my understanding.
 

ed4copies

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Remember, in a large company, the guy writing the "ad" in a catalog or internet is usually NOT the guy who ORDERS the kits and knows where they came from.

This makes it possible to defend statements that are patently false. The "I didn't know that" defense from the "ad" writer, who assumed, as I once did, that the word "Germany" meant it was MADE there and the word "Iridium" meant the nib HAD SOME!!! (Foolish interpretation on my part, but I became better informed and realized the error of my simplicity)[:(][:(][:(][:(]
 

Texatdurango

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I am becoming interested in learning more about fountain pens and of course, nibs! But after reading several of the likns above I am more confused than ever!

One article above seems to say there is little or no iridium in any nibs anymore, some say the German made nibs are made in China then we have this verbiage from a current CSUSA ad pertaining to their Jr Gent pens;

The following excerpt is from http://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/s...ntlemen_s_II_Pen_Kit___jr_gent_2_smooth?Args=
..... "The fountain pen features a top quality German-made two-tone nib with iridium point" ...

Am I to take from this conversation that the nibs in the Jr Gent kits sold by Craft Supply are NOT made in Germany as stated? AND, even if they are still made in Germany, are they tipped with iridium?

I think I'll send Craft Supply a note and get their take on this.

George
 

ed4copies

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George,

"Break a leg"

Make sure any response you get from CSUSA is from a corporate officer (president, vice-pres, secretary, treasurer). They are the only ones whose statements are legally binding on a corporation.

I will be VERY interested in their response.

You may want to ask, if they say the nibs are made in Germany, WHY they package them in the same containers (plastic zip) and put them in a master bag (plastic zip) labelled "China" or "Taiwan"??? This would serve as the identifier that would conform to import law. (But they probably know more about that than I, so their answer would be "inspired")

The "iridium" question has probably become "trade talk". "Everyone" in the industry knows it doesn't actually mean there is iridium (the element) in the nib!!

Please post CSUSA's answer, it should be VERY interesting. (If it comes from the marketing guy, consider the source!)
 

gerryr

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I already sent a message to Eric at CSUSA about this. CSUSA is not supplying 2-tone nibs any longer even though the catalog says they are. Given that, I see no reason to accept the rest of that quote on "faith." I've always wondered about the nibs being stamped "Germany" but the bag of parts clearly says "Taiwan."
 

ed4copies

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Originally posted by ed4copies
<br />George,


Please post CSUSA's answer, it should be VERY interesting. (If it comes from the marketing guy, consider the source!)

Gerry,

As a purchasing guy, I think you know exactly what I mean here. "Credible deniability" is the "military" term, I think.

"I didn't lie, I was misinformed!!"[:0][:0][:0][:0]
 

gerryr

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Here is Eric's response, copied straight from the email.

"Thanks again for bringing this to my attention. I have read all of the posts for this thread and want to reply as best I can (you are welcome to copy and paste this as a post if you'd like).


I spoke with our general manager as well as our inventory controller and have confirmed that our fountain pen nibs that are stamped with "Germany" are in fact made in Germany. They are then shipped to Taiwan where our supplier assembles them with the rest of the parts and then ships them to us. That is why the bag says "Taiwan" - they are simply assembled there with the other parts of the pen and shipped in the same bag.


Regarding the iridium nib: as far as we know the very tip of the nib is in fact iridium. Our supplier has always told us that the nib is iridium and we've never had reason to question them so we've always operated under the belief that the tip is iridium. After reading some of the posts we have decided to research the issue and find out if our supplier does in fact use iridium in their nibs as they say they do. I will not be the one researching this but when we get an answer (it may take a little while) I will email you to let you know. Until we hear otherwise we are going to continue selling the nibs as iridium tipped as advertised by our supplier.


In any case we feel that the nibs we sell are of the highest quality, regardless of the metal used in the nib. We are confident in our product and invite anyone who is unhappy with their fountain pen to call us and we will either replace or refund the product.


Please let me know if there are any other questions I can research for you.


Regards,
Eric Dorman
Director of Marketing
Craft Supplies USA
1-800-551-8876"
 

gerryr

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Do I think personally think this is the definitive answer? Not necessarily and there are a several reasons why, but I don't plan to go into them. I can tell you that if CSUSA says their supplier claims to actually use iridium, I definitely will not believe that. I know a couple of companies here who have spectrometers, so I might just take a nib there and have it tested.

Skeptics Unite!
 

ed4copies

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To clarify:

When speaking to a fountain pen affectionado you must realize they have certain knowledge of nibs. Some have SUBSTANTIAL knowledge. So, if you tell them the nib is iridium and they know there is no way that can be true, you have LOST credibility.

I stopped saying these were made in Germany when I learned the word "Germany" does NOT mean it's made there and when a Chinese supplier provided me with sample nibs (pictures - I never asked for actual samples) he made that had that exact wording.

Ya'all do what you wish. The skeptic in me is not convinced.

Oh, and as far as quality goes - they have frequently been affirmed as "good quality, steel nibs". So, I certainly would NOT expect anything better on a $8 kit. THAT was not the issue. Whether the Emperor nib is significantly better than a baron nib - THAT is a reasonable question. If so, why?

Since Eric is watching this thread, maybe we can get better informed to become more HONEST sales people for his products. (Although I do wonder with "as far as we know" as a qualifier - maybe out of professional curiosity, you might send some of your nibs to the guy and have him test them. - Nibs.com) An electron microscope could scientifically evaluate exactly what is there!!

I will do more research on the import law however. "Point of origin" or "point of manufacture" and stamping country names vs "made in...", it IS confusing.

Thanks for your attention, Eric.

Having dealt with thousands of salespeople in the last 3 decades, I am sympathetic to YOUR position; however, I am also VERY sensitive to telling MY customers the truth - accurately. Not "to the best of my knowledge" - if my knowledge is incomplete, they can find a better source somewhere else and I have not EARNED their business. But then, that's what's kept me in business, in a small town atmosphere.

Craft Supply has been selling these nibs for over a decade and none of YOU ever read "nibs.com"???? No one ever questioned the suppliers?
Wow, that shows a REAL LACK of curiosity - at best.[:0][:0][:0]

I was typing while Gerry posted, so this was mostly before I read his comments - last part was added after.
 

Texatdurango

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Originally posted by wood-of-1kind
<br />
Originally posted by ed4copies
<br />:

affectionado

Def: A person lacking in feelings and knowing <s>nado</s> nothing about nothing. I request that this be added to our lexicon dictionary. Thanks for inventing it Ed[:D]

-Peter-

Boy........ Mr. Cavanaugh is sure gonna have his hands full watching over Ed when we start editing this Wiki thingy! [:D][:0]
 

ed4copies

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I knew you were pulling my chain, Peter!!


But I SHOULD have looked it up BEFORE I posted!!! Haste makes ...........[:(][:(][:(][:(][:(]
 

Firefyter-emt

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This should be good... (Lee, grabbing a bowl of popcorn)

Ya'll remember back when I posted up about the 2-tone nibs, and how they say they sell them and the kits come with a 2-tone nib, yet I have not gotten one from them in over a year? Man I hate the look of a solid gold colored nib on a stiver plated kit. Solid gold would be one thing, but the plated ones... Blaghhhh
 

ed4copies

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As I recall the end of that they said it would come with either a two-tone or not and you should be happy with either. Isn't that close?
 
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gerryr

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I've been going through a lot of Jr. Gentleman and Jr. Statesman Rhodium kits lately and every single one of them has had a silver colored nib.
 
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