FIXED!!! Need help figuring out an executive

[angboy]

I made an executive pen a few months ago and am having trouble with it. When I first tried to put it together, the point wouldn't come out the end, even when the cap was fully twisted. When the cap wasn't twisted into the out position, the tip was way up inside the nib part. So I compared the tube length to a spare kit I had and it turned out that the length of the wood part on my finished pen was slightly shorter than just a new tube. So I thought that my barrel part needs to be longer and was trying to think of ways to add something like the 1/16" that my turned barrel is shorter. But then tonight I started thinking that that didn't make sense, that my barrel would be shorter, but the tip wouldn't stick out. It seems like if my barrel is too short, then if anything, the tip should be sticking out too far, but the opposite is what's happening. So now I have a pen that the barrel is definitely shorter on what I turned, and now I've compared it to several other kits, but yet the refill doesn't stick out so you actually write with it.

Does this make sense to anyone? I hope I explained it clearly. It has me stumped, and I'm not sure what to do to fix the problem!

 

[Randy_]

Angela: I'm reasonably certain that I know what the problem is with your Executive. First, let me say that your thinking is correct about the pen length. All other things being equal, if the tip does not stick out when extended by the transmission, then the barrel is too long, not too short. You could also have this same symptom with a barrel of the correct length if there is a problem with a piece of the hardware.

By any chance is there a picture of the problem pen in your gallery..... possibly this one?

It would a great help to me to see a picture of the problem pen to confirm my thinking as it is extremely difficult to diagnose problems like this from long distance with just a written description!!

So much for the "waffle." I think that either your transmission or your clip/coupler is defective. One or the other or both are not permitting the transmission to seat far enough into the pen body to make the cartridge tip stick out the other end. I think there is something wrong with the female threads in the transmission or the male threads in the coupling that is not permitting the transmission to screw far enough into the pen body.

And the reason I say this is as follows. Notice the coupler in the picture. It has two little ridges separated by a wider flat section. Notice also that above the top ridge(the one to the left) there is another wide(relatively speaking), flat depression visible between the upper ridge and the step in the pen cap. Hope I am making this clear for you?? I think that the step in the cap should be flush with the upper ridge and that there should be no gap there. I believe the gap exists because the transmission is not screwed far enough into the barrel of the pen.

If you have another working Executive, switch caps and transmissions. If the problem moves with the transmission, it is the problem. If the problem remains with the original pen, the coupler is the problem.

And now for some more "waffle." I don't have an Executive kit to look at and have never built one. All of the above is based on what I see in the picture and what is shown in the PSI instruction sheet. I am also assuming your assertion that the barrel length is OK is correct. PSI instructions say the barrel should be 2-7/8" long. You might want to double check that dimension just to be sure.

Guess that's it for now. Hope I haven't confused you too much. Try to verify any or all of the above and see if we are making any progress in solving your problem. Good luck!!

P.S. If we are on the right track here, there are several ways to resolve the problem. Some are very simple and some are more involved. But let's deal with that issue after we are sure what the problem really is.

 

[knottyharry]

You two may be right on in your thinking.
However you might try this just to make sure this is not a problem.
Take the ink cartridge out, and see if the point will insert into the nib from the outside.
I have had this happen on rare occasion. And the nib needs to be reamed out just a little. Use a drill bit if need be.
Harry

 

[alamocdc]

Angela, I agree with Randy on the finial not being properly seated. If this is the problem pen and the finial (cap) is fully seated, the transmission is not screwed in all the way. In fact there are probably only a few threads holding it in. If the photo above is not the pen in question, that could still be your problem. I've also had the problem that Harry describes, and that was the first thing that came to mind after reading your post. But you say that the refill tip looks to be too far inside the pen... that would be more indicative of a tranny problem.

 

[angboy]

Randy, I think you may be right. The problem pen actually isn't the one that you pulled the picture of, I went back and checked that one and it works fine. What is different though is that with that one, when you twist from extended to unextended tip, the top stays in the same place, same distance of small space. So I wonder why that one works, if there isn't supposed to be that gap, but I won't question it!

I took two pix of the one I'm having trouble with, and when I twist the top, all of a sudden, in what would be the nib extended position, there is a gap that wasn't there before (picture below that's a little closer up). So I think I'm seeing and understanding what you're talking about, and later today when I get back home, I'll try it with another kit.

I wonder though, am I likely to still have a problem since the barrel is definitely shorter? The third picture shows my pen with a tube from another kit placed next to it and you can (hopefully, if the picture is good enough) that the extra tube extends past the lower part of my turned barrel.

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Thanks very much for your detailed explanation and the time you obviously spent trying to figure this out!

 

[Dario]

Check Harry's post...maybe that is the solution.

 

[jimbo 31751]

I am glad to see this come up as I have the same problem
with the first one I have turned. I called Fritz at woodturningz about it because the coupler assembly looks like the pencil coupler in the instructions, not the pen coupler. Fritz checked the parts between the two and said I had the correct parts. Have not had time to check any further yet. Everything Angela says is the same here.[!]

 

[alamocdc]

Originally posted by Dario
<br />Check Harry's post...maybe that is the solution.

Concur. Since the finial is rising when you attempt extension, it sounds like the hole in the nib assembly is too small to let the refill extend. But this is a simple fix.

 

[jimbo 31751]

Angela, I found the problem with mine, it is a faulty trans. I have nine other kits and the trans in all of them work ok in this pen, Hope this helps.

 

[Randy_]

Sorry for that big picture, guys. [V]It was late when I posted and I didn't want to take the time to fool with it. Big pictures sure do make the threads more difficult to read and you can't imagine how many times I have cussed out someone for doing the same thing!![!] Again, my apologies.

 

[Randy_]

Originally posted by knottyharry
<br />You two may be right on in your thinking.
However you might try this just to make sure this is not a problem.
Take the ink cartridge out, and see if the point will insert into the nib from the outside.
I have had this happen on rare occasion. And the nib needs to be reamed out just a little. Use a drill bit if need be.
Harry

Harry's comment is always something to consider; and he may still be correct; but the symptoms described, like Billy said, just didn't seem to point me in that direction. One thing Harry didn't mention is the following. I did some measurements a while ago on the generic "Parker" refills and found that all of them are the same as or a few thousandths smaller than the name brand tips.

<b>So what, you say???</b>

And the answer is.....the pen you make and sell could be functioning perfectly when it leaves your shop; but 6 months down the road when your customer puts a Parker brand refill in the pen, it may not fit!!! "EVERYONE" who makes kits with the Parker refill should check their final product with a true Parker brand refill to make sure they will fit through the nib. It will save having some unhappy customers down the road!!!

 

[Randy_]

Originally posted by jimbo 31751
<br />I am glad to see this come up as I have the same problem
with the first one I have turned. I called Fritz at woodturningz about it because the coupler assembly looks like the pencil coupler in the instructions, not the pen coupler. Fritz checked the parts between the two and said I had the correct parts. Have not had time to check any further yet. Everything Angela says is the same here.[!]

Question for you Jim? Are the pen and pencil couplers actually different?? They do look a little different in the instructions; but many times those drawings have only a passing resemblance to the actual shape of the part. Reason I ask is I have the Schmidt pencil cartridge and it is a perfect substitute for the Parker cartridge in the twist mechanism of my cigar pen.....that is to say either will function perfectly in the pen without any alterations. I wonder if the same situation exists in the Executive kit??

 

[Randy_]

Originally posted by angboy
<br />Randy, I think you may be right.....

And now back to dear sweet pain in the......oops, Angela. Just kidding[][] You have added a couple of new elements to the mix, one of which "REALLY" puzzles me?? I sort of feel like the Columbo of pencrafting right now!!(maybe Monk would be a better description)

As to your above comment.....maybe and maybe not.....we'll see???

For lack of a better way of doing it, let me respond to the items in your second post in the posted order.

"...The problem pen actually isn't the one that you pulled the picture of, I went back and checked that one and it works fine. What is different though is that with that one, when you twist from extended to unextended tip, the top stays in the same place, same distance of small space. So I wonder why that one works....."

I don't know. This long distance diagnosis stuff is really difficult, sometimes. Maybe the barrel on that pen is a little shorter?? Or maybe there is something wrong with the cap and it is not slipping fully onto the transmission even though the tranny is properly seated. Maybe.....multiple possibilities....if the pen is working and the look doesn't bother you, I wouldn't worry about it--especially if it is a pen for your own use. OTOH, if it is a pen you were planning on selling or gifting, I might want to look into it more carefully against the possibility that a problem might arise at a later date.

"....I took two pix of the one I'm having trouble with, and when I twist the top, all of a sudden, in what would be the nib extended position, there is a gap that wasn't there before...."

Thanks for the pictures. They are always helpful for what they show as well as for what they don't show!! This comment is driving me up the wall. If I understand, correctly, how this kit works, what you are seeing should not be possible?? The "all of a sudden" comment also puzzles me. Could you elaborate a bit??

".....I wonder though, am I likely to still have a problem since the barrel is definitely shorter? The third picture shows my pen with a tube from another kit placed next to it and you can (hopefully, if the picture is good enough) that the extra tube extends past the lower part of my turned barrel...."

All other things being equal, with a shorter barrel, the tip will stick out further when in the extended position and may not fully retract into the barrel when in the other position. I don't remember that you stated how the barrel got to be shorter? Did you cut it shorter on purpose or did you just cut to the existing tube length and perhaps have a short tube to start with? Remember that when comparing just 2 tubes, you can tell if they are different; but you don't know if one is too long or the other is too short. It is also possible that both are OK. How...perhaps the company has redesigned the kit for some reason and are using a longer transmission with a shorter tube or visa versa?? Wish I had the pens in hand to look at and measure up. Please measure the barrel length of the problem pen and the tube that you photographed so we can compare those measurements against what the instructions call for. If you still have it, it would be interesting to measure the barrel length of the one pictured in your gallery, as well.

With all of the brain power here at IAP, I'm sure we will get this solved for you; but it may take a couple of trys. Hang in there!!

 

[angboy]

Thanks for all the help, especially from Randy! Randy, on that comment that you didn't understand, "....I took two pix of the one I'm having trouble with, and when I twist the top, all of a sudden, in what would be the nib extended position, there is a gap that wasn't there before....", I have NO earthly idea what in the world I was trying to say! When I go back and read it now, it makes no sense to me and I can't duplicate whatever I thought was happening. So that one's a mystery, and if I can't understand what I wrote, then no one else should have to! []

I did do some experimenting and took another top with a transmission from a new kit, and that does seem to have been one of my problems, I must have had a bad transmission. Because now the nib will extend and retract. So the first top went promptly in the trash.

Now though, my second problem is rearing it's ugly head. The shorter tube is now making it so that the tip does stick out too far, like I had expected to happen before. I'd say this particular tube was just a mistake when it was placed in the kit. It has to be the wrong one. When I had first made this kit and noticed a problem, I compared this tube to several other executive kits and the others were all the same length except for this one. I did that again tonight and again this tube is the exception. So I'm going to skip measuring the length, especially since I don't think I have any tool that would give me any kind of decent measurement that would be useful. []

Here's a picture with the tip in the extended position:

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So now I only have to figure out how to lengthen the tube! It had been suggested to me that I figure out something to put in, maybe as an accent, like along the lines of adding a centerband. Of course my problem now will be (and please don't anyone shoot me for this, I can hear the groans already...[V]) that I have to figure out how to disassemble this pen that was glued.... and then figure out where to add something and how to do it. But at least now I know the cause of all of the problems! Thanks everybody for helping me figure it out. Otherwise, I might have tried to figure out a way to lengthen the overall pen to compensate for the short tube, but then still would have had problems b/c of the transmission!

And Randy, I know that you only meant the "dear sweet" part of your post, because that's the part that would apply to me! [][][^][^]

Also, I did go back and look at that pen that you had pulled the picture of too. And lo and behold, when I played around with it, it turned out that basically, I just hadn't pushed the transmission all the way up into the pen top. So with just a little more push, that pen now (still) works fine, but doesn't have that gap that you had picked up on! So I didn't even know that one had a problem, and now it's fixed too!

 

[Randy_]

Dear sweet Angela:

Glad to hear we are making some progress!!

".....So the first top went promptly in the trash......"
I hope you meant to say that the transmission went in the trash and not the "top" or cap otherwise some dumpster diving may be in order. The cap should be OK and is a piece that might conceivably be lost or missing from a kit.....I would try to retrieve it for future use!!

"...Now though, my second problem is rearing it's ugly head. The shorter tube is now making it so that the tip does stick out too far..."
If you intend to keep this pen for personal use or for your office, there is a very simple solution to the problem. Take a sharp utility knife and trim a little off the black plastic end piece of the ink cartridge. How much is up to you. I have seen some pens set up where the tip extends out just to the point where the taper of the tip changes to being a cylinder. On other pens the tip extends just a tiny bit more.....what is your preference??

"...I'd say this particular tube was just a mistake when it was placed in the kit..."
Bad transmission and bad tube. That kit was a real bummer!!

"...So I'm going to skip measuring the length, especially since I don't think I have any tool that would give me any kind of decent measurement that would be useful..."
Please don't!! I'm not needing to know the length to the last thousandth of an inch. Just want an idea of how closed the tubes are to the 2-7/8" called for in the instruction sheet. Most any ruler you have will measure to at least an 1/8" and those retractable carpenters tapes usually are graduated in 1/16ths. My cheapy from Wal-Mart has divisions down to 1/32" at the very tip of the tape. From the first picture, it looks like the good tube is a 1/4" longer than the bad one; but in the picture of the extended tip, the difference does not appear to be that much??

"...So now I only have to figure out how to lengthen the tube! It had been suggested to me that I figure out something to put in, maybe as an accent, like along the lines of adding a centerband. Of course my problem now will be (and please don't anyone shoot me for this, I can hear the groans already...[V]) that I have to figure out how to disassemble this pen that was glued.... and then figure out where to add something and how to do it..."
I have not done a lot of repairs to pens that required a correction so you may need to rely on the advice of those who have more experience in this area. However, a couple of thoughts do come to mind. Disassembly of pens is relatively easy for the most part with the aid of a proper tool or two. Everyone raves about the Harbor Freight transfer punches and they are less than 10 bucks for a full set if you have a store close by. Also, they are on sale right now on the Internet...see my post in the business classified forum. Unfortunately, even when you get the pen disassembled, adding more length will not be easy given that you only need a quarter inch or less. I think the issue would be less of a problem if this was a split barrel kit; but being one piece, it appears to be a little more tricky, especially if you want to add a centerband. The thing that I would look at is adding a thin decorative ring at each end of the barrel between the barrel and the nib and between the barrel and the clip/coupler. Each ring would only have to be about 1/16" thick. Pickguard comes to mind if it can be had in that thickness or maybe you will need a double thickness at each end?? I'm sure there are other options and someone will surely chime in with a solution that will work for you!!

"...Also, I did go back and look at that pen that you had pulled the picture of too....basically, I just hadn't pushed the transmission all the way up into the pen top....and now it's fixed too..."
Cool!!

 

[alamocdc]

Glad you got it figured out, Angela. Like Randy said, get the cap out of the trash. Whoever you bought the Executives from will replace the transmission (give 'em a call), but NOT the cap. There's nothing wrong with it... at least there wasn't until it hit the bin. []

Spelling edit.

 

[Randy_]

Good point, Billy. That never entered my mind??

DS Angela: Another reason to measure your tubes is so that others with this kit will know what the correct length should be!!

 

[angboy]

Randy, since you called me dear and sweet [] I measured the lengths. According to my measurements, the defective tube is 2 3/4" long and I measured a few other kits and all of those seem to be 2 13/16" long, so a difference of 1/16".

I did pull the top out of the trash- I had thrown away the entire thing! And I had gotten the kit replaced, in fact was sent a whole new kit, not just the transmission. At that point, I was told them that it was the tube length that was wrong, since I didn't know my transmission had a problem! But now I have almost a whole kit of extra parts, in case I have another problem.

I think I am going to try to do something to lengthen the tube. I haven't been selling my tubes, so don't have to worry about selling it to someone. But I like the wood (even though I can't remember what type it is) and I like the challenge! So as soon as I get that punch set I ordered from HF, I'll be trying to disassemble the pen. [?] Anyone have any thoughts on which part I should start with? (keeping in mind the glue issue...) Since both ends of the pen are essentially sealed at this point, I don't want to have to detroy one part at one end by having to do something like pull it off with pliers- although I do have some extra parts I could probably replace it with! []

 

[alamocdc]

Angela, find a material that you can mill to 1/16" and will still look good with the pen. Drill the center hole to the same dimension as the ID (yes, inside diameter) of the tube. Decide if you think this material looks better at the finial or nib end and place it in-line with the tube and press the parts back into place. This should correct your "too short" problem.

BTW, I have an extra twist mech for that pen, IIRC, so you should be able to complete a whole pen with your extra parts... unless you damage one while fixing this one. Contact me if you end up needing the tranny.

 

[Randy_]

Originally posted by angboy
<br />.....According to my measurements, the defective tube is 2 3/4" long and I measured a few other kits and all of those seem to be 2 13/16" long, so a difference of 1/16".
Very helpful, DSA. Since the PSI instructions call for a 2-7/8" blank, that only leaves you with 1/16" excess wood if you like to drill "short" to prevent blowouts. Looks like it might be good to start out with a full 3" blank...maybe even a hair more??

I did pull the top out of the trash- I had thrown away the entire thing! And I had gotten the kit replaced, in fact was sent a whole new kit, not just the transmission. At that point, I was told them that it was the tube length that was wrong, since I didn't know my transmission had a problem! But now I have almost a whole kit of extra parts, in case I have another problem.
Good for you!! I had forgotten that you mentioned this pen had actually been completed for a while.


I think I am going to try to do something to lengthen the tube. I haven't been selling my tubes, so don't have to worry about selling it to someone. But I like the wood (even though I can't remember what type it is) and I like the challenge! So as soon as I get that punch set I ordered from HF, I'll be trying to disassemble the pen. [?] Anyone have any thoughts on which part I should start with?

Because of the nature of the beast, you have to remove the nib first. You put a small transfer punch in the big end and drive out the nib. Then, if necessary, you put a bigger transfer punch in the nib end and drive out the coupler at the other end. Billy has given you a good suggestion for solving your problem, relatively easily. I would just add one small thing.....by adding the pick guard or whatever to the nib end of the pen, you will not have to remove the coupler and risk damaging it....saves a step.

2 P.S.s IIRC, this pen has a little different nib assembly than many and may require a slightly different disassembly procedure. I need to review the PSI instruction sheet and double check. In the meantime, maybe someone who has already disassembled this kit can offer some guidance.

And secondly, you made a comment about glue which I didn't quite understand. Are you suggesting you glued the hardware into the tubes?? Doesn't really matter. The glue is fairly brittle and will bust out when you smack the hardware with a transfer punch. Can't attest to this personally; but there was another thread about this issue and glued in nibs and couplers was deemed to not be a problem.(at least if CA was used)

 

[Randy_]

Originally posted by Randy_
<br />.....IIRC, this pen has a little different nib assembly than many...

Yup.....on this one the tip is not pressed into the tube. There is a coupler that is pressed in and then the tip screws onto the coupler. You will need to get some advice from someone else.....I don't know how this one comes apart?

 

[angboy]

I finally managed to get this pen back together and fixed. I added a layer of pickguard near the nib, to lengthen the tube that was too short. It's not exactly my ideal look in a pen, but at least now it's a usable pen. And I have the satisfaction of having been able to salvage it and implement a solution to it, which is a nice sense of accomplishment! Thanks everyone for your help!

(Dear sweet) Angela

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[Randy_]

Good job, Girl!!!................

 

[fritzmccorkle]

Jimbo, did i get you a replacement part after you determined what the problem was? if not please give me a call and i'll hook you up.

 

[crashgtr]

I just read this string of posts because I was having a similar problem with a recent executive pen purchase from PSI.

Before and after inserting new transmission- i guess the tube was too short also. (see photo 2)
In case you are wondering, the body of the pen is my first attempt at homemade PR - I used acrylic paint as the colorant inside the PR with some varying spec colors as seen in the photo. It is opaque but did not come out with a nice gloss or sheen even when I used the Novus plastic polish.

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Liz[:I]