finishing product overload

[jimr]

I have now been making pens for several months. When I first started I was so pleased at being able to this really fun type of turning that produced a very useful product in a short period of time. I just cranked them out, different styles, different woods, etc.
Now that I am starting on my second hundred pens I am getting a bit more particular about styles, blanks,finishes, etc. I have several supply catalogs and I am getting overloaded with all the choices. Take finishes- On one page in the Packard woodworks catalog there are 6 different finishes- shellawax liquid-mylands friction polish - crystal coat finish -mylands spray lacquer -Behlen woodturner finish -and clearcoat epoxy finish. Each of these products promises a glass like gloss. To try all six of these products would cost $82.
Has everyone tried everything and settled on your personal choice,-am I the only one suffering from overload? I wish there was a page of testimonials from pen turners on all the choices available. I would personally believe an opinion of members of this forum over a printed advertisement any day of the week
But I guess I am just suffering from product overload! And that is just the finishing products!

 

[DCBluesman]

Jim...we have a whole forum for finishing. Be warned, you may get more opinions than you want! http://www.penturners.org/forum/forum.asp?FORUM_ID=27

 

[jkirkb94]

I've tried and still use the Shellawax. Bought a small bottle (about 30cc) from Penn State a while back and it has lasted through a lot of pens. Smells nice as you are using it. KIrk[8D]

 

[dougle40]

I use Lee Valley's Turners Polish , which is the same thing as the Behlen Master woodturners Polish and I swear by it . Easy to apply , great gloss and dries quickly .
It also does a fantastic job on antler.

 

[timdaleiden]

I have a whole shelf full myself. [:I]

Whether you go for the glossy or satin appearance, do your best to remove all sanding marks.

Make sure the wood is properly sealed.

I personally find open grain unsightly, so I fill it. Other people don't mind it.

I wish I could give a concrete answer on the best finish, but I don't think there is one.

 

[tomwojeck]

Jim,

I've tried a number of different methods... CA didn't work very well for me, and Mylands was nice, but not quite what I wanted. Finally I tried Dougle's method of behlen's woodturners finish topped of with some TSW and I've been very pleased with it. The pens have a real nice shine but it isn't nearly as difficult as CA was for me.

--Tom

 

[dougle40]

Whether you go for the glossy or satin appearance,

I find that if I want a satin finish , using Turners Polish , I just knock down the shine with 00000 steel wool and it works great and I don't need any additional polishes .

 

[goldentouch]

I sand down to 12000 MM then with a que tip apply a couple drops of thin CA. Let it dry for a few minutes then go from 1500 MM back to 1200 MM then I apply a couple coats fo HUT friction polish. It works for me a hard finish that wears well and shiney. You don't really need to use the friction polish I just do. But you will get a lot of different answers to this question as everyone is different.

 

[Guest]

The first pen I ever turned back in june I tried CA on Bethlehem olive wood.It was then I realized that turning a pen is only the start of the process and that finishing is the bulk of the work.
I "stuck" with the CA trying to perfect my technique.
There were many days of frustration.
I then tried Hut Krystal-coat but found that even though it produced decent results it did not leave a Long lasting shine.
I went back to CA trying as many different techniques as possible.
Jason at woodturningz had suggested the Mylands method and like you when I heard of the cost I balked.
A few months ago I decided to give the Mylands system a try.
It consists of a cellulose sanding sealer,High build turners polish and carnauba wax.
For me this is as close to the appearance you can get to a CA finish.
I did modify the method suggested by Mylands using ideas given here on the forum but the bottom line is the Mylands system is the way to go until I find a better one(And I use up what I have)
Final note.
I made a pen for a nurse who wanted a click pen and she demonstrated how she retracted the point and shoved it in her side pocket.
Because of the abuse the pen would receive I decided a CA finish was the way to go.

 

[its_virgil]

Most all of the crystal coat/mylands type finishes contain shellac and or beeswax and both react to the moisture and oils on our hands and will soon(very soon) dull and start to distort in the color. Ever seen water rings on older furniture..shellac finished. Hut PPP makes good candle wax. I would suggest you read and learn to do a CA/BLO finish...the best finish I have done. Lacquer makes a nice finish also. Both polish to a nice shine...I do CA exclusively on all pens now. One of our members has a finish formula (President's Choice) yet but may give it a try, although I am quite happy with my CA technique. There are several good articles on CA finishing and if yo9u need I can send them or point you to them. You will probably get many more answers to your question and we all think our finishing technique is the only one to use. I was just not happy with the lasting reslults I was getting with the various frictin polishes, and I tried them all. Good luck in your investigation.
Do a good turn daily!
Don

Originally posted by jimr
<br />I have now been making pens for several months. When I first started I was so pleased at being able to this really fun type of turning that produced a very useful product in a short period of time. I just cranked them out, different styles, different woods, etc.
Now that I am starting on my second hundred pens I am getting a bit more particular about styles, blanks,finishes, etc. I have several supply catalogs and I am getting overloaded with all the choices. Take finishes- On one page in the Packard woodworks catalog there are 6 different finishes- shellawax liquid-mylands friction polish - crystal coat finish -mylands spray lacquer -Behlen woodturner finish -and clearcoat epoxy finish. Each of these products promises a glass like gloss. To try all six of these products would cost $82.
Has everyone tried everything and settled on your personal choice,-am I the only one suffering from overload? I wish there was a page of testimonials from pen turners on all the choices available. I would personally believe an opinion of members of this forum over a printed advertisement any day of the week
But I guess I am just suffering from product overload! And that is just the finishing products!

 

[Rifleman1776]

jimr, like you, I have been at this pen thing only for a few months now. I have been using Myland's but plan to switch to something else, as yet undetermined. I like Myland's for the look it gives and ease and speed of application. Cost is insignificant. A few drops on a small piece of scrap cloth is all that is required for a pen. But, as others have pointed out, it is not a durable finish for something that is handled. My own personal pen of box elder burl is showing signs of finish wear and embedded dirt. If you are selling and will never see the buyers again, and don't have a conscience, Myland's is the way to go. Looks good and is fast to apply and use. Right now I'm like you, trying to decide on what to go with. Shellawax is a front runner at the moment.

 

[Scottydont]

I used to use Crystal Cote and it looked good initially but does not hold up well. I have started stabilizing all of my blanks that are the softer woods. They turn better and finish smoother. Next I am sold on the CA/BLO technique. It takes some practice but once you get the right combo, Wow! Last I finish up with Presidents Choice (now TSW) sold by Lou (DCbluesman) here. Like buttah!

 

[DCBluesman]

Now also distributed by <u>Pens of Color</u>.

Originally posted by scott m
<br />.....Last I finish up with Presidents Choice (now TSW) sold by Lou (DCbluesman) here. Like buttah!

 

[William Young]

For custom orders I always explain that a friction polish finish will not last as long as laquer (which I prefer) and I charge $5.00 extra for the laquer finish. I have nothing against CA as a finish except that I never mastered the technique of applying it and had too many failures. Mylands has been the best friction finish I have used to date and I find that by applying half a dozen applications right after one another to get a build in the finish, it will last longer than only a couple applications while at the same time keeping in mind that it is still just a temporary finish at best.
I am using the Presidents Choice product as a final finish on all my pens regardless of the base finish. That is fantastic stuff. I am even using it on all my turned bowls and boxes and lamps , candleholders , etc. It goes on easy and polishes beautifully by hand so I do not need to invest in a Beale or similar polishing system.
I was just about to order a Beale system before getting my first container of Presidents Choice but now I feel the money is best spent on a couple more good turning chisels or accessories.
W.Y.

CORRECTION;
Presidents Choice is now called Trade Secret For Wood or TSW-1 or TSW-2 depending on size if ordering from POC.. Different name but same great stuff.

 

[Rifleman1776]

[:I] Regarding my earlier comments about Myland's finish and my
"don't have a conscience" remark. That was inappropriate, many use Myland's and have confidence that it is a good product. I went overboard with that crack. Sorry.

 

[Gary]

I use Mylands and get excellent results from it. Care should be taken not use "Myland's" as a generic finish. It's true the Myland's Friction Polish does not hold up all that great on pens. Myland's Melamine Lacquer is an excellent finish for pens and wears well as does any lacquer.

 

[William Young]

Rifelman;
Didn't hurt my feelings at all. I doubt if it upset anybody else either.
Try the Shellawax like you mentioned earlier. Unless there is a new super duty hard wearing new and improved one on the market I think you will find there is very little difference one way or the other in all of those friction type polishes. I personally think they should all be called a friction polish and not a friction finish. But there still is a market for the quick and easy polished pen with easy application and minimal cost being a couple of the deciding factors..
I like to give people a choice and explain the difference in durability qualities of different finishes I use and if they choose the lesser one then I always have "I told you so" to come back on. Might even get a repeat sale from the same customer as an upgrade instead of an upset customer that thought I should have explained it in the first place.
W.Y.

 

[William Young]

Gary;
Myland's Melamine Lacquer that you mention is one that I have never tried. To save me searching could you please provide a link to specs and a supplier of it and also elaborate a little on your experience with it as compared to other friction finishes (if it is indeed a friction finish). I like the idea that it is a laquer base because I know from experience that a high grade of straight laquer will wear exceptionally well. I am wondering what proportion of laquer is in it compared to the other ingredients. The Melamine component in it is also a mystery to me and I would like to learn more about that. Is this the new and improved version of a finish that we have all been looking for?
Comments from anyone using that product would be much appreciated.
T I A .
W.Y.

 

[Gary]

W.Y., Mylands Melamine Lacquer is not a friction polish. It is a fast drying lacquer. It is not new; I've used it for years on jewlery boxes I used to make. I have found it to be a durable lasting finish as are most quality lacquers. I don't use the Shellac based friction polishes.

I sand through #400, seal with Mylands Cellulose Sealer, sand with #400 & #600 then apply several coats of the Mylands Melamine Lacquer. I let it cure overnight still on the mandrel then lightly buff/polish it on a 2-wheel 1750 rpm buffer I have set up. I finish with a coat of Renaissance Wax buffed out with a soft cotton cloth.

I'm not a fan of the high gloss finishes on wooden pens, and this procedure gives me just the look I want.

It is available from a number of vendors. I think the last I bought was from Craft Supplies. Here are the links you asked for. I hope this answers your question. Cheers!

http://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/cgi-bin/shopper?preadd=action&key=049-1800

http://www.mylands.co.uk/turning.html#2

 

[wayneis]

Another product that has not been mentioned yet that I have had great success with is Enduro Wat-R-Base Poly. I sand as usual put on a couple coats of sealer and then two or three coats of the Enduro. Enduro gives just as good a shine with more depth than CA and it has a softer feel than the CA but will last just as long if not longer. A big factor for me also in choosing the Enduro over CA is that CA makes me sick and it's no fun to up-chuck my cookie's after each pen that I finish. After I do the Enduro I use a coat of Ren. Wax to keep the finger prints down.

Wayne

 

[Gregory Huey]

Gary
Disregard my last post, I just found the answers to my questions above.

 

[William Young]

Thanks Gary;
That was the info I was looking for.

Wayne;
I certainly agree with your WB laquer method. I use the Oxford Target brand which is similar to what you are using as a top end quality WB laquer.
For me , and obviously for you, this is a user freindly method of appyling a lasting finish with excellent eye appeal. Takes longer than a friction finish but I beleive it is well worth it. I am still using the same masur birch pen every day I that first used that method on and it still looks like the day I made it. It goes everywhere I go and has had a lot of use. It has had enough use to use up the first cartridge of ink already. I think it is about 7 months now but would have to check for exact date. When you get ancient like me and forget things easy you use your pen a lot to take notes to refer back to.[] [] Hhmmm.. now where did I leave that note pad .... []
There are so many different finishes available. . Nice to be able to try different ones to see what suits our particular needs best and take it from there.
W.Y.

 

[wayneis]

William I was just trying to make it known that there are other finishes than the ones that usually come up when a question like this is asked. Most people will only mention the finishes that are written about in books by the so called masters of pen making. I have no interest in what anyone uses, only in that this is something that has worked well for me and a few others that have tried it like you. Watch, when some of the masters start using it as a finish then it'll be mentioned every time that the question comes up. I heard recently that one of the persons that I respect the most when it comes to turning pens has plans to give Enduro a try after seeing and hearing about some of our success stories and seeing photo's of pens that have been finished with it.

Wayne