FINISH Turning Pen without a mandrel

[Dario]

Just thought you guys might want to try this. It is a re-post just in case some of you missed it.

I do my final sanding and turning without a mandrel and turn between centers.

It is very simple really. Mount a dead center at the head stock and a live center at the tail stock. Turn between centers with the bushings still on the barrel.

That is it!!!

I saw it on the pics of the fellow member and I though that should work...no deflection no getting out of round....SIMPLE, CHEAP, and EASY. What else can I say?

I will try to post pics next week. I am out of town until Monday.

NOTE: I still do the rough turning with a mandrel. But care less about deflection and it being out of round. I fix that during the final sanding and finishing.

Both dead and live center are from Little Machine Shop

 

[bonefish]

How does the headstock center alone grip the blank solid enough to be able to turn it?

I have done what you are talking about with steel bars on a metal lathe, but you can apply enough pressure with the tail stock to the bar for the center to grip it enough to hold.

Bonefish

 

[Dario]

It works with plain friction from the dead center to the bushing.

As I said, you still have to rough turn with the mandrel. Believe me, it works.

 

[JimGo]

Dario,
Thanks, that's an interesting idea! How do you ensure you've aligned the blanks/bushings in the center of the live/dead centers? Even a slight misalignment can cause the same kinds of problems we experience with the mandrel.

 

[Dario]

It is self aligning...just keep the bushing and the dead/live centers clean.

 

[bonefish]

Dario:

When I asked about holding the tubes on the dead center, I didn't see the part you wrote about leaving the bushings in the tube.

Now, I can see how it would work.

I pictured putting the brass tubes over the dead center. I didn't understand how you could do that without belling the brass or spliting the blank.

Bonefish

 

[DocStram]

Dario, how interesting. I remember seeing the post from the new IAP member a while back. Is that where you first saw it posted? Wasn't it a guy who had turned like 500 pens or something and he found IAP for the first time?
Anyway, it doesn't matter. What does matter is your results! I'm looking forward to seeing the pictures. And, it might even make a nice tutorial. If you have the time!

 

[challagan]

So if I understand how this works then this technique would not work on slimlines. Only those where part of the bushing sticks inside the tube. Interesting.

Corey

 

[redfishsc]

dern ye. ye went an took me idear an put it all o'er the eenernet. [)]

 

[alamocdc]

Originally posted by challagan
<br />So if I understand how this works then this technique would not work on slimlines. Only those where part of the bushing sticks inside the tube. Interesting.

Corey

Correct, Corey. This wouldn't work with any pen that doesn't use "step" bushings. That also includes any "B" style kit that has straight bushings (like the bottom tube of the Perfect Fit).

 

[Dario]

As Corey and Billy said...I am afraid I haven't tested this on slimlines or other styles without step bushing. Not sure if it will not work on those but I am afraid it might break the wood once pressure is applied straight to the tube.

If anyone cares to experiment on this, do let us know your results []

 

[KenV]

Aha said the blind man to his deaf daughter, as he picked up his hammer and saw --

You are using a machinist dead center for a metal lathe

http://www.littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=1890

and for the sterling price of $4.95 -

 

[Dario]

YEP!!!

That is what I've been using and it works great! I bought it with my live centers. I actually bought 2 pairs []

 

[Dario]

Originally posted by DocStram
<br />Dario, how interesting. I remember seeing the post from the new IAP member a while back. Is that where you first saw it posted? Wasn't it a guy who had turned like 500 pens or something and he found IAP for the first time?
Anyway, it doesn't matter. What does matter is your results! I'm looking forward to seeing the pictures. And, it might even make a nice tutorial. If you have the time!

Al,

Will gladly post pics but definitely no need for a tutorial. As I mentioned I got the idea from a pic and that is it. Actually the descriptions I mentioned is more than enough, once you set it up...it will take care of itself. []

BTW, I think that is him...he also had a pic of a pen on the moon if I recall it right. Some how, I think he didn't like some of the comments and stopped posting. What a shame too since he makes nice pens.

 

[DocStram]

Right, Dario. It seems like he was here for just a minute and then never came back. Too bad.

 

[challagan]

I can see where this would be a good way to go and I even went out and mounted a cigar top up and like the firm feel. I guess a guy could turn his own bushings to fit all his kits and make them step bushings. I know my PSI mandrells give me some out of round pens. I wonder if it would help to just adjust them to turn one barrel at a time. Seem better than nothing. I don't get that problem as much with my Berea systems which I have 2 complete setups with A and B rods. Anyway, thanks Dario for this info.

Corey

 

[Chuck Key]

Referring again to Chris's site, a lathe dog is frequently used for turning between centers. http://www.littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=1149

Here is a photo of one I made and use when turning between centers:

http://www.firechat.com/dogchuck.jpg

Chuckie

 

[kiddo]

I'm not dead. Just centered. hehe

BTW: I'm her, not him.
Women invent cool things you not realize. Circular saw blade, spread spectrum controlled torpedo, COBOL...

Hint; You don't need mandrel at all if you use sander to do a little rounding on the blank before mounting. And you CAN mount both top and bottom of barrel on centers at same time. I find pic later to show you how, or write description if I cant find pic.

Peace;

Kiddo

 

[RussFairfield]

Hey, this is the way we were turning pens before there were mandrels and separate bushings.

The closest thing to a mandrel was a 7mm piloted drive with a built-in bushing diameter that fit into a Jacobs Chuck in the headstock, and another for the tailstock. Brad Packard still had these in his catalog up until a couple years ago. They disappeared for lack of interest. I think I bought the last 2 that he had. I like to use them with the stepped bushings for larger pens because there is less vibration than with the long mandrel.

 

[Dario]

Kiddo, I know I told you before (the first time you posted that pic that I am interested) and would like to credit you for the idea and thank you for it. I know my turnings improved because of it and best of all, it is within my budget []

Russ, If this was the way to go then, I am surprised that this idea basically died...until now.

 

[RussFairfield]

Nobody wanted to make one barrel at a time because the emphasis was on speed. The Vendors advertised speed, and how fast their pens could be made with their special lathes, tools, and jigs. There were even pen turning speed contests at woodturning clubs and Symposiums. Claims of less than 2-minutes were common. One Vendor advertised the 90 second pen.

Wooden pens were new, and the conventional wisdom was that there was a fortune to be made with the Slim Line pen. If that were true, making them one barrel at a time was a sure loser.

With the larger pens, and more expensive kits now available, along with more concern fopr quality, it would be natural for a rediscovery of turning a pen one barrel at a time.

 

[DocStram]

Russ .... not only are you an artisan .... you're also a heck of a historian. Very interesting post!

 

[Dario]

Russ,

Thank you. I wonder, what else can we resurrect???

 

[DocStram]

I have a few questions ......

Chuckie - I'm a little slow sometimes (OK, most of the time), what exactly is a lathe dog? I saw the picture at TLMS site but can't quite visualize how it actually works or how you chuck it, for that matter. Maybe a close up picture will help.

Kiddo - I'm looking forward to a pic of how you mount the top and bottom together. (A friendly suggestion, you might want to move that fire extinguisher so it's near a door. You wanna be able to use it with your tailend aimed at a door so you can exit quickly.)

Russ - Thanks for the lesson on speed = yield = moola. I remember seeing a post here where the member said that if he couldn't completely finish a pen in under 15 minutes he would lose money. I don't sell my pens. If I did,I would go broke .... come to think of it, I am broke.

 

[kiddo]

Originally posted by DocStram
<br />I have a few questions ......

Chuckie - I'm a little slow sometimes (OK, most of the time), what exactly is a lathe dog? I saw the picture at TLMS site but can't quite visualize how it actually works or how you chuck it, for that matter. Maybe a close up picture will help.

Kiddo - I'm looking forward to a pic of how you mount the top and bottom together. (A friendly suggestion, you might want to move that fire extinguisher so it's near a door. You wanna be able to use it with your tailend aimed at a door so you can exit quickly.)

Russ - Thanks for the lesson on speed = yield = moola. I remember seeing a post here where the member said that if he couldn't completely finish a pen in under 15 minutes he would lose money. I don't sell my pens. If I did,I would go broke .... come to think of it, I am broke.

A lathe dog is used (mostly) in metal turning to provide drive power to a workpiece suspended between centers. It is basicaly a clamp of some sort that firmly grasps the work piece and uses an extended arm that is secured to the driving shaft. Methods vary depending on the lathe and workpiece. Unlike with the pen barrel trick, the dead center in the headstock does not provide enough friction to drive the work piece. So the dog makes a firm connection while relying on the dead center for positioning only.

I look for pictures of turning two barrels at once but looks like I will have to describe it or draw it out. I will make that another post.

I must confess I no longer need the fire extinguishers. I had to give up my tools and my hobby a few months ago because of health reasons. I spend most of my time programming and creating graphics to help with my modest income.

Some may think my moniker (kiddo) imply I am spring chicken, truth is I am old hag. My friends call me kiddo because they are even older than me. Hehe.