A few silly questions if I may

[eliasbboy]

I've been turning pens for a few years off and on but only started seriously in the last few months. Much like everything I do, I jumped in feet first and asked questions later. Or not at all...

I've learned mostly by screwing up and then researching what happened. Those searches inevitably came up with helpful threads and articles here, which is how I found this treasure trove of information.

After reading the majority of articles in the library I still have a few basic questions I hope someone can help with.

Choosing wood: I have no previous experience with choosing wood besides "look". Now that I'm getting to a point I am making higher quality pens, how can I learn which wood species are higher quality? Besides looking at the price tags I'm not 100% sure if I'm putting a bow on a pig. I'd hate to use a quality pen kit with a wood meant for toothpicks.

Sharpening: I've recently been having difficulty with vibrations from my workpiece. I have never serviced my lathe besides cleaning it and checking the belts. I read a few posts saying dull tools can greatly affect concentric work. I am NOT a religious sharpener, but I would take time once a week. Should I be doing this more often?

Stabilized Woods: I read some comments that made me feel a bit foolish(er). Are stabilized woods supposed to be finished more like acrylics? I have recently become fairly good at a CA finish, but at times I prefer the more natural look of a friction polish. I have been finishing wood (both stabilized un-stabilized)one way, and acrylic another. Do the stabilized woods respond more like acrylic?

I aplogize for the length of this post. I guess I'm a bit wordy at times but I'm really trying to improve myself the best I can.

 

[sbell111]

Choosing wood: I have no previous experience with choosing wood besides "look". Now that I'm getting to a point I am making higher quality pens, how can I learn which wood species are higher quality? Besides looking at the price tags I'm not 100% sure if I'm putting a bow on a pig. I'd hate to use a quality pen kit with a wood meant for toothpicks.

Have a nice variety, but choose wood that you like. As you go forward, you'll discover new woods that you like and you can add those.

Sharpening: I've recently been having difficulty with vibrations from my workpiece. I have never serviced my lathe besides cleaning it and checking the belts. I read a few posts saying dull tools can greatly affect concentric work. I am NOT a religious sharpener, but I would take time once a week. Should I be doing this more often?

YES!!! If you are thinking about whether your tools are sharp enough, then they aren't. When in doubt, sharpen them.

Stabilized Woods: I read some comments that made me feel a bit foolish(er). Are stabilized woods supposed to be finished more like acrylics? I have recently become fairly good at a CA finish, but at times I prefer the more natural look of a friction polish. I have been finishing wood (both stabilized un-stabilized)one way, and acrylic another. Do the stabilized woods respond more like acrylic?

I finish stabilized woods just like unstabilized.

These answers are my own opinions. Others will disagree with each one (except for the sharpening thing).

 

[TerryDowning]

Choosing wood: I have no previous experience with choosing wood besides "look". Now that I'm getting to a point I am making higher quality pens, how can I learn which wood species are higher quality? Besides looking at the price tags I'm not 100% sure if I'm putting a bow on a pig. I'd hate to use a quality pen kit with a wood meant for toothpicks.

Lots to consider here. Appearance, desired finish, overall strength (not too much of an issue on the finished tubed pen, but can be an issue during turning.), How Exotic or Rare the wood is all come into play. Not to mention the customers desire.

Sharpening: I've recently been having difficulty with vibrations from my workpiece. I have never serviced my lathe besides cleaning it and checking the belts. I read a few posts saying dull tools can greatly affect concentric work. I am NOT a religious sharpener, but I would take time once a week. Should I be doing this more often?

A dull tool can definitely create "Chatter" when turning, that is probably what you are experiencing. Forcing a dull tool only worsens the chatter and can result in an "out of round" product. I typically run a hone over the edges of my tools before each turning session and sometimes during depending on the performance of the tool during the session. You don't need to run the grinder every time you sharpen and periodic honing lengthens the life of the tool (by not grinding away metal) and improves its performance. It doesn't have to be razor "shave the hairs off of your arm" sharp, but a keen edge that cuts is far superior to a raggedy edge that tears the material or chatters on contact.

Sharp tools are so much more enjoyable to use. It's worth the few minutes honing to me to have a better performing tool and a better finished product.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[LagniappeRob]

I'll give you my opinions for what it's worth as someone who hasn't done it all that long but has come far enough to be juried into 2 art shows and several markets in a matter of months (I read a lot...). But as they say opinions are like a..holes, everyone's got one, and everyone else's stinks.

Woods: Some woods are noticeably nicer and more valued. I've been specifically asked for Birdseye Maple, Desert Ironwood, and Amboyna - that I can remember off the top of my head. Amboyna was a joy to turn. Got my 1st as a gift from another turner (GoodTurns) here. Another that I really like to turn is Bethlehem/Jerusalem Olive Wood. Also most stabilized woods especially Buckeye Burl (love the look).


Most here will advise against friction polishes for pens. I've used it originally as it is what come in the starter pack I got when I was first starting, before I found this place. I've since moved on. I have done some with General Finish's Wood Turner's Finish (a hybrid water polyurethane IIRC). Easy to use, but watch what you put under it. It does give a more natural look and feel than CA. I have had a problem with 2 inlays that I don't know if it was the GFWTF or ? but they are yellowing around the inlay pieces themselves. I haven't really attempted to fix them yet to see if it's in the wood or the finish so take that with a grain or more of salt.

For stabilized woods, some I've found need nothing other than MM'ing up to 12000 and will have a high gloss at that - the recent batch of double dyed Buckeye Burls comes to mind. Others like 2 out of 3 stabilized Red Flame Box Elder did not look finished when done MM'ing. They looked good, but not great. I completed them with CA. I think it had to do with how much they stabilized - but that's just a guess on my part.

Sharpening - For me this varies with what I'm cutting. A recent Jeff Powell blank (Koi) that has minerals in it, I had to sharpen a couple times for each section of the blank. I've built up enough of a feel that I sharpen when needed not as a function of time alone.

Screwing up and researching is part of the learning process... Sometimes even when you read or watch a video on youtube, there's that "ah, that's what they meant" when you do it for yourself.

 

[lyonsacc]

Excellent questions! I am a newbie, but these are my opinions:
Wood - I get blanks based on looks. I try to only buy blanks that I think really stand out (burls, etc) or that have a story (jack daniels, bethlehem olive wood, etc)
Sharpening - I try to sharpen all the time
Stabilized - not enough experience to comment

 

[nativewooder]

Choosing wood: There is no "instant gratification" on this. If you look
through some of IAPs vendors you will note that some
of the woods have higher prices, indicating desirability/
rarity.

Sharpening: You must learn the difference between "grinding" and
sharpening your tools. A mentor will help.

Stabilized wood: Wood that has had the air pockets and voids in the wood
filled with some type of epoxy or other chemical to
keep the wood in one piece. You pay for the difference.

I will always recommend that a new turner find the nearest club to try to
get some lessons/help from a "mentor". No matter how stubborn or hard-headed you are, this will save you much time and money. Good Luck!

 

[nativewooder]

Also, the only silly questions you have are the ones you do not ask!

 

[Ed McDonnell]

My opinions:

Wood species: Given the small size used to make pens, the grain characteristic of the wood and other attributes (like spalting, mineral stains, inclusions, sap vs heartwood) will have a much larger impact on the final look (and value) of a pen than the specific species. Looks are everything for most people. Burls make spectacular pens that keep their good looks over time. Some woods that have great figure and look incredible the day they are turned will darken to a relatively bland looking wood over time. I source all my wooden pen blanks right from the tree. I like to have a mixture of a light colored sap wood with a dark colored heartwood in a pen blank. I find these make spectacular looking pens.

Sharpening: You could get by with sharpening once a week if you only make one pen a week. I will sharpen my tools before each pen and depending on the wood I might sharpen a couple of times. I only use HSS gouges. No carbide (or HSS) scrapers. Better cuts means less time spent sanding (which can contribute to out of round issues) and a better overall finish (no tearout to deal with). You can never sharpen too much.

Ed

 

[LagniappeRob]

Eliasbboy: Do you have Barry Gross' Pen Turners Workbook? I have the 1st and 2nd edition and there's not that much difference between them. The 1st was picked up used as a library discard (meaning bought for a couple of $). If you'd like it, PM me your address and I'll send it out to you. It's a great starting resource.

 

[eliasbboy]

Eliasbboy: Do you have Barry Gross' Pen Turners Workbook? I have the 1st and 2nd edition and there's not that much difference between them. The 1st was picked up used as a library discard (meaning bought for a couple of $). If you'd like it, PM me your address and I'll send it out to you. It's a great starting resource.

Wow! That is incredibly nice of you! I do have that book and I carry it around in my laptop bag like a bible. Thanks so much for the offer tho!

 

[eliasbboy]

Choosing wood: There is no "instant gratification" on this. If you look
through some of IAPs vendors you will note that some
of the woods have higher prices, indicating desirability/
rarity.

Sharpening: You must learn the difference between "grinding" and
sharpening your tools. A mentor will help.

Stabilized wood: Wood that has had the air pockets and voids in the wood
filled with some type of epoxy or other chemical to
keep the wood in one piece. You pay for the difference.

I will always recommend that a new turner find the nearest club to try to
get some lessons/help from a "mentor". No matter how stubborn or hard-headed you are, this will save you much time and money. Good Luck!

I would LOVE to know how to sharpen better. For an idea on the level I started at years ago when I started woodworking and using chisels, I had to google "honing". That being said I'm still not 100% clear on how to accomplish this. I have a construction business and we're more "brute force and ignorance" than surgical perfection.:biggrin:

I have the work sharp system and recently purchased the toolbar rest and Tormek adapter for it, but my tools don't match the setting given in the instructions. I ended up have to grind a new angle to accommodate the adapter which took FOREVER. I wanted to go slow and not heat the metal too much.

Now that I have something I can recreate I guess I'll just need to make sharpening pant of my routine.

The local Woodcraft out here has classes often. I think I'll take your advice and grab the next turning and sharpening course they offer.

Thanks so much!

 

[eliasbboy]

My opinions:

Wood species: Given the small size used to make pens, the grain characteristic of the wood and other attributes (like spalting, mineral stains, inclusions, sap vs heartwood) will have a much larger impact on the final look (and value) of a pen than the specific species. Looks are everything for most people. Burls make spectacular pens that keep their good looks over time. Some woods that have great figure and look incredible the day they are turned will darken to a relatively bland looking wood over time. I source all my wooden pen blanks right from the tree. I like to have a mixture of a light colored sap wood with a dark colored heartwood in a pen blank. I find these make spectacular looking pens.

Sharpening: You could get by with sharpening once a week if you only make one pen a week. I will sharpen my tools before each pen and depending on the wood I might sharpen a couple of times. I only use HSS gouges. No carbide (or HSS) scrapers. Better cuts means less time spent sanding (which can contribute to out of round issues) and a better overall finish (no tearout to deal with). You can never sharpen too much.

Ed

Wow. Um. Yeah. I guess I really need to increase that sharpening ritual.:redface:

I can already see how this is going to turn out (no pun intended). I'm going to get home and sharpen my tools and realize I could have saved myself a ton of headaches by doing it better, and more often.

 

[eliasbboy]

By the way, nobody told me turning pens was going to be so addictive. I'm in my office now watching the clock until I can go home and sharpen my tools.

 

[Andrew_K99]

There is a solution if you don't like sharpening ... carbide insert tools. Just rotate the insert and replace as required.

AK

 

[eliasbboy]

There is a solution if you don't like sharpening ... carbide insert tools. Just rotate the insert and replace as required.

AK

I recently saw one, the PenPro I believe. Added that to my Christmas list!

When did my Christmas list go from "toys" to "tools that will give me more work" ?

Oh well, they're still toys i guess!

 

[eliasbboy]

Sharpening did not go well.

 

[azamiryou]

Choosing wood: I have no previous experience with choosing wood besides "look". Now that I'm getting to a point I am making higher quality pens, how can I learn which wood species are higher quality? Besides looking at the price tags I'm not 100% sure if I'm putting a bow on a pig. I'd hate to use a quality pen kit with a wood meant for toothpicks.

For the vast majority of buyers, the only thing that matters about the wood is how it looks. Occasionally a buyer will have a special interest in a particular wood, which may or may not be based on value... it could have other meaning for them.

In otherwords... if that wood meant for toothpicks is gorgeous, don't hesitate to put it on a quality component set.

Sharpening: I've recently been having difficulty with vibrations from my workpiece. I have never serviced my lathe besides cleaning it and checking the belts. I read a few posts saying dull tools can greatly affect concentric work. I am NOT a religious sharpener, but I would take time once a week. Should I be doing this more often?

I sharpen when my tools are dull. How can I tell when they are dull? They don't cut very well. For most woods, "cut well" means getting nice shavings and a smooth feel. If it starts chattering, or making "dust" rather than shavings, or I feel resistance... it's time to sharpen. Okay, actually it's time to try to find a different contact point on the blade that is sharp. But before long I won't be able to do that, so it's time to sharpen.

I see you've had some difficulty with sharpening. All I can say is keep trying, you'll get there. Are you using a jig? Rather than go to the grinder every time, I use diamond hones to touch up the edge, and only go to the grinder when those no longer do the job.

Also, I sometimes booch the grinding job. Whether honing or grinding, if I go back to the lathe and find the tool doesn't cut, no big deal... I just go back to the grinder and correct it. The beautiful shavings let me know when I've got it right.

Stabilized Woods: I read some comments that made me feel a bit foolish(er). Are stabilized woods supposed to be finished more like acrylics? I have recently become fairly good at a CA finish, but at times I prefer the more natural look of a friction polish. I have been finishing wood (both stabilized un-stabilized)one way, and acrylic another. Do the stabilized woods respond more like acrylic?

I've read those same comments with curiosity. The stabilized woods I've turned are nothing like acrylics, and I end up finishing them just like wood. I imagine it depends on the exact stabilizing process and materials.

 

[eliasbboy]

For the vast majority of buyers, the only thing that matters about the wood is how it looks. Occasionally a buyer will have a special interest in a particular wood, which may or may not be based on value... it could have other meaning for them.

In otherwords... if that wood meant for toothpicks is gorgeous, don't hesitate to put it on a quality component set.

I sharpen when my tools are dull. How can I tell when they are dull? They don't cut very well. For most woods, "cut well" means getting nice shavings and a smooth feel. If it starts chattering, or making "dust" rather than shavings, or I feel resistance... it's time to sharpen. Okay, actually it's time to try to find a different contact point on the blade that is sharp. But before long I won't be able to do that, so it's time to sharpen.

I see you've had some difficulty with sharpening. All I can say is keep trying, you'll get there. Are you using a jig? Rather than go to the grinder every time, I use diamond hones to touch up the edge, and only go to the grinder when those no longer do the job.

Also, I sometimes booch the grinding job. Whether honing or grinding, if I go back to the lathe and find the tool doesn't cut, no big deal... I just go back to the grinder and correct it. The beautiful shavings let me know when I've got it right.

I've read those same comments with curiosity. The stabilized woods I've turned are nothing like acrylics, and I end up finishing them just like wood. I imagine it depends on the exact stabilizing process and materials.

This all makes a lot of sense. Thanks for taking the time to reply.