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Old 02-01-2019, 07:41 AM   #1 (permalink)
 
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Default Fastest roughing method?

Hi folks, I donít know if this is in the library, but whatever search words I used didnít bring up what I wanted. I find this happens in my Corvette forum as well.
A few questions regarding the thread topic:
  1. Is there a Ďfastí way to bring down the size of a blank so Iím not constantly resharpening my tools just to get near the size of the pen I want to make? I have seen some turners on video who use various sanding machinery to rough the shape down to something closer to the final project.
  2. What other methods do people use?
  3. Iíve asked this before, but are the carbide tools worth the cost? I saw a young boy about 12 from Britain on YouTube whoís on his way to be a turning master. He made a bowl of using a ton of hair combs and resin, then turned it with a carbide tool. He was getting some serious material removal with that tool.
Thanks!!
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Old 02-01-2019, 08:38 AM   #2 (permalink)
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1. Every blank is different. I would caution about the idea of "fast", which is disastrous until lots of experience with different tools and wood/resin/segmenting is under the belt. In another post just a couple of days ago, someone (was it you?) mentioned several blowouts in drilling on the first batch of blanks. The cause to experienced users is obvious: speed and inexperience. On delicate blanks such as snakewood, some people drill the hole over a period of two or three days. (Minuscule Heat build up can cure cracking). Thin blanks don't have the wall integrity (strength) to hold its self together with fast drilling. Same thing happens with some blanks in trying to get them to size quickly.
Examples: Desert Iron is hard. Rushing it can ruin the edge of the tool, or potentially cause a blow out, while watching the blank develop into beautiful shape and color. Segmented blanks: Rushing will result in blowouts for sure. Some resins won't let you rush or chips will jump out. For me, there is as much enjoyment in the journey and what I see developing, or what I learn with a new segment or unusual wood/resin/material. It is fun to watch the blank develop while getting to the final turn.

I often do get mine "round" quickly in using Carbide and then switch to HSS.

1.B On occasion, I will run a blank ( hard desert iron wood) across my router table with 1/4 inch radius round over. Getting to size is best done with turning, stopping, measuring with calipers, turning again, measuring and going down to .005 below the size wanted and build back up with CA or other finish to the precise size of the center band or nib end or clip end. CA does have a thickness value on it, so, many people allow for that to get back up to size.

2. Other methods? In casting, some cast round blanks but I don't think anyone casts to size of finished blank. I mentioned using a router above.

3. I have three carbide tools and use them on occasion for rough turning on hard woods and resins. However, I change to HSS tools once rounded.

Woodpeckers, a very expensive and precision tool company (and well respected) as well as a few others have been advertising something along the lines of "nano" molecular/crystaline(?) carbide turning tools. Carbide by its nature has been difficult to get as sharpe as well as high quality HSS and similar tools. As much as people say that the carbides are as good as HSS, so far, I (and I know others) can feel the difference in well sharpened and honed HSS vs a new/good carbide. The newest carbides claim (insinuate) that they are as sharp as well tuned HSS. I haven't tried the latest such as Woodpeckers say, so I cannot compare.

That said, there are blanks, especially segmented cast or wood with aluminum/brass/copper in it in which sanding causes tremendous smearing and color changes in the surrounding wood. The only way around that - is to sharpen so sharp until it cuts so smoothly that sanding is not needed. A few people do this. No sanding needed, but fresh precision sharp is a necessity, and that doesn't take more than a literal few seconds to attain.

Back to your question: Carbide does not need sharpening (honing) every minute or so like HSS does. In general, Carbide works and exceeds production turning better than HSS for sure, and in my opinion the Carbides are worth it for what they do. Still, the HSS has its place. If nothing else for me, HSS is what I use to finish turning to size - as it eliminates sanding in some or many instances - such as segmenting.
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Old 02-01-2019, 08:44 AM   #3 (permalink)
 
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Charles- First off, thanks for the questions and I've answered what I can down below.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Chasboy1 View Post
Hi folks, I donít know if this is in the library, but whatever search words I used didnít brin
A few questions regarding the thread topic:
  1. Is there a Ďfastí way to bring down the size of a blank so Iím not constantly resharpening my tools just to get near the size of the pen I want to make? I have seen some turners on video who use various sanding machinery to rough the shape down to something closer to the final project.
  2. What other methods do people use?
  3. Iíve asked this before, but are the carbide tools worth the cost? I saw a young boy about 12 from Britain on YouTube whoís on his way to be a turning master. He made a bowl of using a ton of hair combs and resin, then turned it with a carbide tool. He was getting some serious material removal with that tool.
Thanks!!
1. If you're having to sharpen your lathe tools several times turning a single blank then that brings up some questions for me. How big is the blank? I turned 6 comfort pens yesterday and only honed my lathe tools one time between blanks number 6 and 7. So if you're having to "sharpen" your tools more often than that your either using very hard materials or your tools were really never sharp. You need to profile your tools, sharpen them and then keep them sharp, but not as often as you say your are, you're not doing something right with your tools. There is no "fast" way to turn down anything that I'm aware of. I take my time and depending on the wood species, it takes as long as it takes.

2. I'm not sure what the question is here. If your asking a sharpening question I know that there's a thread started here not long ago with a lot of expert advice. You might want to check it out.

3. I can't give you any information about carbide tools. I use HSS tools that I've had since I started turning 40 years ago. You need to find what your comfortable with, enjoy using and stick with those. You can turn nylon, like a comb, with HSS tools too.

Hope this helps a bit and I'm sure others will chime in too.
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Old 02-01-2019, 08:47 AM   #4 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chasboy1 View Post
Hi folks, I donít know if this is in the library, but whatever search words I used didnít bring up what I wanted. I find this happens in my Corvette forum as well.
A few questions regarding the thread topic:
  1. Is there a Ďfastí way to bring down the size of a blank so Iím not constantly resharpening my tools just to get near the size of the pen I want to make? I have seen some turners on video who use various sanding machinery to rough the shape down to something closer to the final project.
  2. What other methods do people use?
  3. Iíve asked this before, but are the carbide tools worth the cost? I saw a young boy about 12 from Britain on YouTube whoís on his way to be a turning master. He made a bowl of using a ton of hair combs and resin, then turned it with a carbide tool. He was getting some serious material removal with that tool.
Thanks!!
Charles have to say you ask some questions that are impossible to answer with direct answers. Here is another. Yes carbide can rough turn a blank quickly and I suggested carbide in your last set of questions. But so can a rough gouge, a skew, a parting tool, and any other sharp that is the key word sharp tool. Material being turned means a ton. Again not all materials turn the same and are prone to chip out or breakage thus you can not force turn them. Is carbide worth the money, absolutely every penny. A round cutter is a good place to start. Now the Bash has started there is and will be various sales I highly suggest you take advantage of. Sanding a blank will NOT get a blank turned down quickly. Yes taking the corners off can help beginners more-so when turning a blank round and is done with a sanding disc, bandsaw, tablesaw, scrollsaw, router and so forth. Many ways to do the same job. This is my point to you. We all find the method that works for us. I do not knock the corners off because that is what a lathe is for turn things round. I use carbide but also use HSS tools also. My skew is my favorite tool. Good luck.
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Old 02-01-2019, 08:50 AM   #5 (permalink)
 
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Fastest stock removal?? For spindle turning, a peeling cut is the fastest.....but I would not do this cut on pen blanks as there is the possibility of the blank not surviving. If there is a void in the glue to the tube, that is a weak spot and an aggressive cut could cause that area to break out.
My go to tool for a peeling cut on spindle turnings (not pens) is a radius skew. The wing on a spindle roughing gouge will work too. Some will use a bowl gouge wing/ cutting tip as well. It all comes down to finding a tool with a sharp edge and using bevel support for control.

When I turn pens, my go to is a 1Ē spindle roughing gouge making planing cuts as does the skew. Many times I use the roughing gouge start to finish in pens.

When you say you need to sharpen often on one pen, I wonder if your tools are not HHS. Also, I do not know in what method you are using it. Scraping will dull any tool much faster.
I ďsharpenĒ ( on the grinder ((CBN)) ) my HHS occasionally but hone frequently. If my chisels will shave the hair on my arm, I am satisfied they are sharp.

Carbide....I have a couple of carbide tools but use them very,very rarely.

Hope this helps
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Old 02-01-2019, 08:51 AM   #6 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chasboy1 View Post
Hi folks, I don’t know if this is in the library, but whatever search words I used didn’t bring up what I wanted. I find this happens in my Corvette forum as well.
A few questions regarding the thread topic:
  1. Is there a ‘fast’ way to bring down the size of a blank so I’m not constantly resharpening my tools just to get near the size of the pen I want to make? I have seen some turners on video who use various sanding machinery to rough the shape down to something closer to the final project.
  2. What other methods do people use?
  3. I’ve asked this before, but are the carbide tools worth the cost? I saw a young boy about 12 from Britain on YouTube who’s on his way to be a turning master. He made a bowl of using a ton of hair combs and resin, then turned it with a carbide tool. He was getting some serious material removal with that tool.
Thanks!!
If you are turning something big...like a peppermill or a bowl, or a big handle, you can take it to the bandsaw and saw off the corners to get it down to a reasonable size before you start turning it. For pen blanks, I take them to the belt sander (either the 4 inch belt/disk sander or the 1 inch vertical sander) and knock the corners off. That is not to speed up turning, but rather to prevent my blind students from getting their hands injured by flying corners on a spinning blank. But it will shorten the turning time and help prevent chipout when taking off the corners of a brittle blank.
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Old 02-01-2019, 09:21 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie_W View Post
I “sharpen” ( on the grinder ((CBN)) ) my HHS occasionally but hone frequently. If my chisels will shave the hair on my arm, I am satisfied they are sharp.
. . . Hope this helps


I should have said that. THAT delineates what sharp is to me. I haven't had that with carbide yet.
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Old 02-01-2019, 10:06 AM   #8 (permalink)
 
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I use carbide and turn a wood blank to sanding size in less than two minutes, slightly slower for resin blanks. I turn 40+ barrels with each of four sides of a carbide insert.

Practice will greatly improve your speed.

Ed4copies demonstrated his techniques at the first MPG. He was ready to sand an acrylic blank in three fast passes.

This is Ed's member profile - he has links to his free videos here:

http://www.penturners.org/forum/member.php?u=1088
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Old 02-01-2019, 12:07 PM   #9 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thewishman View Post
I use carbide and turn a wood blank to sanding size in less than two minutes, slightly slower for resin blanks. I turn 40+ barrels with each of four sides of a carbide insert.

Practice will greatly improve your speed.

Ed4copies demonstrated his techniques at the first MPG. He was ready to sand an acrylic blank in three fast passes.

This is Ed's member profile - he has links to his free videos here:

http://www.penturners.org/forum/member.php?u=1088
I remember Edís fast pen turning demo!!
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Old 02-01-2019, 12:16 PM   #10 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leehljp View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie_W View Post
I ďsharpenĒ ( on the grinder ((CBN)) ) my HHS occasionally but hone frequently. If my chisels will shave the hair on my arm, I am satisfied they are sharp.
. . . Hope this helps


I should have said that. THAT delineates what sharp is to me. I haven't had that with carbide yet.
Hank....also there is a noticeable difference whether a sharp edge will just barely shave v/s an edge that will very easily shave with little to no resistance.
You can tell if the barber has a freshly sharpened straight razor by itís cut/drag.

If I want to refine an edge even more on tools, knives, etc, I use an MDF wheel on my lathe with Tormek abrasive compound...and then followed by a leather strop and some green compound if I feel like it.
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